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A new stat for supports: the support scaling problem and a potential solution

ModKnightsKemplar··3 votes·1,800 views

Meddler recently posted that news bit about supports. I figure I would share a thought. Much of the game's scaling happens from AD and AP, which also feeds offensive abilities. This has created an environment that makes it difficult to balance many supports in a healthy way.

I posit that a utility scaling stat is needed in LoL, simply because it adds the exact lever needed to tune supports. I will avoid talking about individual champions (except when I need examples of where the current design is inadequate) in order to focus on the strengths and weaknesses of the idea.

The problem with current support design, especially "enchanters", is that the AP scaling is too general to balance the utility scaling of supports with the raw damage that AP gives them. As a result, supports are kept somewhat weak, because it keeps them from becoming an overbearing source of damage and utility (think solo lane Lulu). Riot has said they are thinking about this, so I think it's the perfect time to pitch a radical idea.

The easiest way to get around this problem is to use a new stat. The stat would link to utility, specifically. On appropriate champions, this stat could....

  • increase healing/shield power (in lieu of current options for this)
  • increase cc duration
  • increase "enchanting" effects, such as move speed boosts

I will be referring to this stat as "UP," for "Utility Power." In my mind, UP is probably better off as an analogue to CDR than to AD or AP. Basically, we could count UP out of 3 or 4, and items could give 1-2 UP (similar to how CDR works). In any case, I think playing a raw numbers scaling game with a stat like this is untenable. I think having a cap for UP is reasonable, again comparing it to CDR.

With UP, there would be a lever to tune support ability. It's similar to Riot's current attempts to do this with healing/shielding power. The advantage of UP over just the shield/healing power thing is that it can synergize with different champions in different ways. Leona doesn't give allies shields OR heals, but we could add UP to her kit to do something else, like change ability cooldown or increase cd duration. The advantage of this stat is that it is flexible on a "per champion" basis. It could do potentially anything, but doesn't contribute to damage.

Every other stat in LoL is linked to some other power scale. AD and AP, as I mentioned, contribute to damage. CDR has a cap, and applies to ALL abilities. UP has neither of these restrictions. Again, I point to Redemption and Ardent Censer as examples of Riot already having the same thought; supports need a different way to scale. Raw stats (at least the ones currently in the game) aren't working.

This idea doesn't stand alone as the answer to the problem, but I can imagine it being a VERY useful lever to pull for support balance. There are still issues concerning sightstone, gold generation, etc. But I think an item like this could potentially tie into solutions to those other problems. Put some UP on sightstone. Maybe you can find a way to reduce price on UP items so that supports just get to 6 items faster than usual? Some champs could do that in other lanes, but if it directly scales their support abilities, they won't have overbearing damage AND utility. There's a lot of ideas that we could branch into from here, is my point.

I'm trying to keep the "wall of text" effect to a minimum, so I'm gonna stop there. But please, discuss below. I think an idea like this could have a lot of potential. While it is incredibly unlikely Riot would lift this idea and use it exactly like I suggested, they might get some good ideas from good discussion around it. So let's do that! I'll close with a poll.

22 Comments

ChaddyFantome1 votes

this has been suggested time and time again. I even made a thread about it a month ago.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/p0oQEPEG-enchanter-support-scaling-the-ultimate-conundrum-and-how-it-can-be-fixed

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I had never seen that before. Seems like these threads have a lot of trouble gaining traction. I already have two opposed in the comments here.

I dunno. I still like the idea, and I'm glad others see it, too.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

I had never seen that before. Seems like these threads have a lot of trouble gaining traction. I already have two opposed in the comments here.

I dunno. I still like the idea, and I'm glad others see it, too.

Nor do I, but this small group has persisted for a long time even tho I and a good amount of others have made this suggestion for over a year now.

There are just a cult like group of staunch haters o these supports who are scared to every see them strong or something.

That said, I don't think Riot is in the position to rebalance the game around said new UP Stat, which is the real thing keeping them from doing it, as they would then have to balance every champ, every item and every rune page and combo thereof all over again around the stat, unlike lethality, which mostly just replaced an older stat.

However, replacing or reducing their AP scaling on their utility if favor of more potent Mana Regen scalings could solve the issue without having to compromise the entire stat system.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

I think Riot is not in a position to do it this month.

But it's a good time to talk about it, because the "role rework" team just finished assassins. They have to choose a new role now, presumably to come out at preseason. Diving fighters or tanks are more likely, but next preseason would be a fine time to rework item scaling for a whole class. That's my highest hope "dream scenario" for an idea like this.

Again, I doubt Riot will take this idea wholesale. But you know that. That's why you're bringing up mana regen as an alternative, and I like the thinking. That's a good point.

Erockandroll1 votes

To be honest, Their are too many issues with the points you brought up, particularly the points your trying to fix. a) Heals and shields are served pretty well with the current itemization, that I wouldn't advice changing it. b) Giving any kind of duration scaling on CC is a really bad idea. (especially if it means I can get Morgana snare levels of CC) not to mention that would have to be balance around both single target, and AoE CC. and c) Their isn't exactly a ton of enchanting ability outside of healing and shielding that I wouldn't exactly worry about it.

Over all, adding a new stat to the game, would mean that each champion would need scaling with that stat. And you would need to work out the items that give said stat. That would be extremely difficult to do in a game with over 125 champions. And then there's the issue with Utility mages. Mages who are already capable of getting extreme amounts of utility because they are able to lane. Could they abuse UP? Even if by a little bit, that stat simply sounds abusive on anyone who can actually get their hands on it. (especially if you can get it on a supports budget)

Personally, I would think such scaling should be off of a stat already in the game. AP isn't bad, but since supports lack the gold, it does help to give boost to said utility (such as with the heals and shields). Their was a time where I thought that supports should have utility that scaled off of Maximum mana, because it was a stat that wasn't otherwise largely stacked, and wouldn't add too much in the way of damage. But since Riot pushed Maximum Mana over mana regen as the Carry option, that choice didn't make sense anymore. And you can certainly make champion kits that scale better with other resources. (Many tanks supports get an extra boost from building defenses.) And with the changes to the chalice items, Supports can easily get extra stats, just from building the mana regen.

And Lastly, If Riot ever decided to increase the gold gen to a more reasonable point, UP wouldn't make any sense anymore, as Supports could afford normal AP itemization.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I don't think it's any more work than the other role reworks, and that's obviously what it would have to be if this were the idea they went with.

Honestly, I think the utility scaling with AP is exactly what makes supports so hard to balance. Giving Lulu that much damage AND utiltiy with AP is exactly what makes her a problem, but she only has the one shield, and no heals.

So, Lulu is the perfect example of a support that the current system doesn't really allow to be balanced. If she's ever strong enough bot lane, she's too strong elsewhere.

I'm just not satisfied with the "it's good the way it is," and neither is Riot. To address a few of your other concerns briefly, you don't have to add UP to ANY kit, so I don't see any abuse cases that can't be solved by just not giving UP to that champ.

Morgana's snare doesn't have to scale with it if it's OP (but of course if she did have it the numbers would have to be adjusted). She'd need new numbers if they added UP scaling. I see nothing wrong with letting her get to a similar level by building UP. The idea isn't about making power positive changes to supports; it's about giving them itemization that's as exciting for them as other items are for other roles. They need some kind of scaling, and AP clearly isn't doing the trick.

I hate my ADC1 votes

The last thing Support need is more scaling. A good support champion is one that can thrive with less stats.

This can be achieved through multiplicators items with low stats and high base numbers abilities with low scaling. Things like item 3107 is a perfect example of good design. The scaling on level isn't too bad since it scale on the target level and it increases healing with a multiplicator factor. So it doesn't matter what your stats are, the heal from the active will always be good, no matter how poor you are. It isn't OP because for other champions who have a lot of gold and XP, that you don't have as a support, will find no use in this item due to it being mediocre in stats for anyone who can afford the high scaling items.

Items like item 3190 are also a good example. Combined with item 3504 item 3222 item 3107 and windspeaker's blessing, the shield become a whoping 1k on a level 18 target. All of those items are useless to a carry, or anything that isn't a support with some exceptions, but combined together are amazing for a support who can't afford the items of a carry.

What Support needs right now is to have a bigger priority on the important stats they actually need on their items as well as lower dependence on certain scaling.

The biggest offender right now is item 3028 and it's build path item 3174 item 3222. They changed the passive to a scaling health regen instead of the mana regen if mana is lower than health and vice-versa.

This was a huge blow to sustain champions who needed that mana regen and the new passive is just an insult to supports. An item that scale on another stat is extremely bad for a support. You start with low mana regen, making chalice's passive provide near to no health regen. Not only that, but the scaling stat is a useless one to the supports that build a Chalice. Health regen is good for tank supports, not sustain ones.

Chalice needs to get it's mana regen back. Mikael needs to not have an identity crisis. And Banner needs to be given back to AP supports.

ModKnightsKemplar4 votes

Well, I hear you, but I think you're kind of missing my point. You're naming a lot of problems I think this system could solve.

It's isn't "more scaling." It's different scaling. If they added this, they would take AP ratios away from a lot of things (I would hope), especially heals and shields. If you think Redemption and Ardent Censer are fine, I see no reason why UP couldn't be there instead of the current buff to shields and heals. That argument makes no sense to me, frankly. They are intended to be pretty similar.

So yeah, I'm talking more items like that, but more generalized. That's exactly my point. More of this. I see this idea as an extension of that type of scaling. It just needs to increase and be refined, imo.

I hate my ADC1 votes

That's a problem on a champion-per-champion basis.

AP ratios are fine because it allows more diversity in roles and builds a champion can play. Janna used to be played in more than just support back when her Q and W had huge AP ratio and Deathfire Grasp was a thing.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Again, EXACTLY my point.

Take Morgana as an example, and I'll JUST talk about Dark Binding, just to try to illustrate what I am trying to say. On live, the cc scales from 2-3 seconds as she levels, a .25 second increase for each rank. Damage scales with 90% of her AP.

Ok, so we change the scaling of the cc with levels first (in order to add this UP ratio without breaking her). Let's nerf it to .15 seconds with each rank, so now it maxes at 2.6 second snare. UNLESS she builds some UP. Let's imagine a world where UP can stack up to 3, and it adds an additional .2 seconds with each stack. So, without UP, snare is 2.6 seconds. With max UP, her snare is 3.2 seconds, a slight "buff" from live. But she had to stack some UP to get there.

Now, I think where I'm losing you is trying to explain WHY this is a good thing. It's good because now Morgana has to choose whether to get damage or cc. That means we can buff her damage! She would still have a 2.6 second snare on dark binding with NO UP, but she can scale with 110% of AP, let's say. A buff to solo lane Morgana. She can do more damage now, because she has less utility.

I intend this change to bring back solo lane supports. It's intended to disentangle damage scaling from utility scaling, so that each support can choose whether they want damage or utility.

The same argument applies to Lulu, Janna, Soraka, and Sona. The reason you can't do this on live is because BOTH scale from AP. It's too strong when they have gold. Can't be balanced. You end up with Solo lane Lulu being pick/ban status at high elo. It's not tenable.

Riot knows that, and that's why they've tried to dial back on supports scaling with AP. They're already doing that to alleviate the problem, but it's created a new one; supports aren't as much fun to play, because they just don't scale well. Especially enchanters because they get damage as they build AP.

They NEED a way to scale without AP. Riot knows that. The only issue is HOW. UP is an option. It may not be a good one. But it is an option. AP ratios are NOT fine on supports. AP ratios break them.

I hate my ADC1 votes

And my whole point is that it's bad to split stats even more because it reduce how versatile a champion can be and that, yes, a Support need less dependence on stats but a different dependence on a new stat, even if it's less dependent by being more accessible, is still a dependence. It doesn't eliminate the problem, only reduce it. It also brings 2 different problems with it.

  1. If you play Sona for example and you go for Utility Power to increase your healing but the balance of power in the game shift and you now need more damage to deal with the situation and healing is less relevant. You will be stuck with the problem that you already bought your Utility Power items and can't adjust anymore, especially not on a Support budget. This is already a problem with choosing between going squishy or tanky, going heavy AP or heavy active items... having an additional stat only make the matter worse.

  2. Back to the first line of this post, it reduce versatility. Yes, AP ratios are not fine on supports, I never denied that, but they are fine at any other role. That's why they exists, a champion that is considered a support is able to play a different role (Like Sona mid for example) because of those ratios.

What a support really need is base amount on abilities (which is a per-champion fix only), multiplicators and/or powerful base actives on cheap and low stats items and items with proper stats for supports instead of random useless stats.

Multiplicator like healing/shielding increases on Redemption, Ardent Censer and Mikael's Crucible keeps a Support relevant throughout the game by allowing them to keep a certain level of power even with the lack of powerful AP items. Those multiplicator items have too low stats due to their low gold cost to be useful to non-supports.

Knight's Vow is another item that is well designed, transfering damage as a multiplicator and scaling on your ADC rather than yourself is what Supports really need. The stronger your ADC is, the stronger you are and that's what the game should focus on.

Zeke, for example, needs to be revamped to be as useful and relevant as Knight's Vow. Something like increase your healing/shielding done to linked partner by X% while close to them, healing/shielding your partner grant you and them X% damage increase for Z seconds, the buff is lost if moving out of range of partner. A multiplicator item, which is only beneficial if built by a Support due to it's very nature. It wouldn't be abused by mid laners because the stats on it would be too low to be worth an item slot for a carry.

Then if you look at items we already have like Chalice, the scaling health regen on it is useless and should be changed to a better passive. Back to it's original intent, increasing mana regen. It wouldn't be abused by mid laners anymore because it's build path is focused on supporting.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Mm. Agree to disagree then. To address your numbered points:

  1. That's true of literally any champ. If you build a bunch of damage and then you aren't tanky enough, that's your bad. That's just League, and support shouldn't be immune to that.

  2. I just staunchly disagree. The lack of scaling with anything but levels is what makes supports boring; when they have all the versatility in their kit to begin with, they can't scale with items, and the problem persists.

As I have said, it's entirely likely that Riot will come up with a better way to do things, but I'm not buying your arguments. Even Knight's Vow, for all its merit, is still reliant on your adc to be good. That's not ideal, and it contributes to fewer support players.

I hate my ADC1 votes

  1. Except that other roles/champions won't have to deal with Utility Power if it is included. All AD champions have to deal with the same stats and AP champions does too. If being support means you have an extra stat you have to deal with that other don't have to deal with, how does that makes it better for the support? We already have the lowest gold income, making any switch in stats harder and take longer than other roles. Obviously, Support shouldn't be immune to building the wrong stuff, but it shouldn't be worse for Support than it is for other roles. If you'd want to add Utility Power without making it worse for Supports, you'd have to change all AP ratio on champions that are considered Support to UP ratio and create a shit load of new items to deal with the fact that Supports don't use AP anymore. That would completely break versatility. Brand wouldn't be able to go anywhere but Support if his ratio become UP because Support items will have been tailored for the support role, not mid role and vice-versa if they made him scale on AP.

  2. Supports doesn't scale with level. A Support doesn't scale period. You have the lowest XP and gold income. The Support role being boring is subjective. It isn't a popular play style, that's why there is fewer support players. The role not scaling with items or levels is fine on a gameplay and strategic PoV. It's actually needed for the game to be balanced properly.

As for Knight's Vow being reliant on the ADC. Sure, it is. But the ADC is reliant on the Support to be good as well. It's a team game after all. Support doesn't carry in a conventional or flashy way. Support carries in a subtle but impactful way. Every little things count and every wave can create a tsunami. And the best way to make the most out of Knight's Vow, is to play to your role strength and carry your ADC to late game.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

  1. I think you could likely increase AP ratios if you introduce UP, as I outlined for Morgana. Also, I don't see any reason why UP wouldn't become a stat for many champs. It's a nice way to scale utility that many champions bring. For damage, there are two scalings (AD and AP). For tanking, there are THREE scalings (armor, MR, and health). I can't acknowledge any validity that "moar is worse" when it comes to stats. If that were true, why have more than 2? Health and damage? But to answer your original query, I think nearly any champ with utility should scale with UP, just as nearly any champ with magic damage scales with AP. I just happen to think that a change like that, across the board, would make supports more interesting.

  2. Support does scale with level. Your base numbers on abilities go up for all champs, including cc on many supports (Taric, Leo, Morg, etc.). The base stats alone from leveling up are worth tons of gold. EVERY champ scales with level. The issue with supports, currently, is that they mostly scale with level.

Other champs get to make cool decisions with their itemization. That's why items exist. You get to choose damage or tank stats, and even with "tank stats" come two different resistances AND health. You act like adding choices to itemization is always bad, but that's demonstrably false. It's what makes a game like League fun for many people. If you don't like leveling up and buying items, why play a MOBA at all? There are plenty of games without RPG elements that are still fun.

Now, it's a fine argument that you like support the way it is. If you do, great! You get to have fast queues and enjoy having less impact on the game! The rest of the community doesn't like that aspect of league, though. That is the reason for Meddler's post. And that's the reason I think this is a good topic for the game right now; most of us WANT to make support "more interesting," which I fully admit is subjective. Of course it is. But it's something Riot is talking about doing, so it's the right time to bring up new ideas.

It's not a fine thing for support not to scale with items and gold. I believe this to be demonstrably true, and very obvious to boot. And it seems the design team at Riot agrees. That's not what I'm here to discuss, because I am with them on the assumption that changes need to be made to the role. If you believe that isn't true, that's a very different discussion indeed.

I hate my ADC1 votes

{quoted}

  1. I think you could likely increase AP ratios if you introduce UP, as I outlined for Morgana. Also, I don't see any reason why UP wouldn't become a stat for many champs. It's a nice way to scale utility that many champions bring. For damage, there are two scalings (AD and AP). For tanking, there are THREE scalings (armor, MR, and health). I can't acknowledge any validity that "moar is worse" when it comes to stats. If that were true, why have more than 2? Health and damage? But to answer your original query, I think nearly any champ with utility should scale with UP, just as nearly any champ with magic damage scales with AP. I just happen to think that a change like that, across the board, would make supports more interesting.

There are more stats than that. Lifesteal and spellvamps are also defensive stats. Armor penetration, Lethality, spell penetration, attack speed, CDR, Critical chance, Critical damage, etc. All of those are stats. The major difference between what Utility Power would be and the other stats is that Utility Power is focused on only one role and one type of champion. Building Health, Armor, Magic Resist on any champion will offer benefit and you are either AD, AP or an hybrid of both. Those hybrids have very specifics items tailored for them but there is one consistant thing about hybrids. They aren't supports, they are all carries. They have the budget to afford those expensive stat sticks. Making all support hybrids who need to build both AP and UP to be relevant would be more than just a balancing nightmare, it would require building items tailored for each champions, revamping all the items, making sure nobody abuse from them. It could work, but too much complexity is like too little. The game doesn't need more of it, it needs to focus on the basics of each roles. Support is strong on a base value and multiplicators. That's where the focus should be, that's where the focus has been slowly drifting into in the past few seasons.

  1. Support does scale with level. Your base numbers on abilities go up for all champs, including cc on many supports (Taric, Leo, Morg, etc.). The base stats alone from leveling up are worth tons of gold. EVERY champ scales with level. The issue with supports, currently, is that they mostly scale with level.

Support strength is focused on their toolkit and what they bring to a fight, not the numbers they pump out from levels and items. I'm all for Support to have a wider access to more XP since yes, the stats from levels is huge and it's easy to fall too far behind, even if your champion strength is focused around their toolkit. But what I meant by Support not scaling is the very fact that we get less XP and less gold, making us the lowest scaling role in the game. That's why Support doesn't scale. It's all about what you can bring as a base. How impactful each abilities you have are.

Other champs get to make cool decisions with their itemization. That's why items exist. You get to choose damage or tank stats, and even with "tank stats" come two different resistances AND health. You act like adding choices to itemization is always bad, but that's demonstrably false. It's what makes a game like League fun for many people. If you don't like leveling up and buying items, why play a MOBA at all? There are plenty of games without RPG elements that are still fun.

Other items get passive stats, we get active items. How are their items cooler than ours? We actually get to have more control over what happens, harder decision making and some of the most game-changing plays that can be done because we have more abilities than other champions. If anything, ADC should be the boring role, all you do is point and click. But people like big numbers, it makes them think they are the ones who made the plays instead of the Alistar that caught the enemy team off position and engaged with a perfectly timed Righteous Glory and saved his ADC with next level peel and a clutch Locket of the Iron Solari.

enjoy having less impact on the game!

If that's how you see Support, I don't know what to tell you except that you are wrong. Support has the most impact on the game alongside the jungler. Maybe that's not as true at lower Elo, but at high Elo, it is. A Support literally make or break his ADC or the enemy ADC. A Support has the highest level of control on Boss objectives like Dragon and Baron with the Jungler because they are the ones who is able to keep track of the enemy team in order to secure or protect those objectives, the Jungler being the one that decide whether it is contestable or not due to their smite. They are almost always the ones that bring the most CC and a game can be decided in a single hook, aqua bubble or perfectly timed Mikael's Crucible. In Diamond, the vast majority of players are good, both mechanically and strategically, maybe not great or exceptional, but they all understand the fundamentals and plays with a better than average on both front. This is where Support really shine. Because objectives are what matters the most at that Elo. One baron fight is all you need to win the game, every single mistake can lead to a lost.

It's not a fine thing for support not to scale with items and gold. I believe this to be demonstrably true, and very obvious to boot. And it seems the design team at Riot agrees. That's not what I'm here to discuss, because I am with them on the assumption that changes need to be made to the role. If you believe that isn't true, that's a very different discussion indeed.

It's fine for support to not scale for the fact that there is an alternative to it, an alternative that already exists on multiple items in the game. I'll just repeat it for the n'th time, multiplicators and actives are what prevent Support from falling behind due to their lack of gold. And those same active are what make Support such a game-changing role.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Welp, I appreciate the discussion, still disagree on most of your points. I would like to re-iterate that if UP was incorporated, it would NOT just be on support's abilities. That, I agree, would be dumb.

All I can say is that Riot acknowledges that there are pretty deep problems with the way support works compared to other roles. You don't seem to think so, and that's just a fundamental difference of opinion.

The only other thing I will say is that just because the game works a certain way at high elo, doesn't mean that's the best version of that idea. There's a reason that most people don't like playing support, and I think there's value in addressing that problem. So does Riot.

Beldair1 votes

It doesn't help that mid laners abuse Support items...

Look at Frost Queen's Claim. That Support Item got nerfed to the ground because mid laners were abusing it..much like how ppl are complaining of ADCs abusing assassin items (I happen to be one of those ADCs XD).

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Right. And UP would change that. It makes it so that the stats on support items aren't desirable to other lanes. Or, more accurately, in cases where they are, it's because they actually want the utility, not utility AND damage. They would have to choose.

Frost Queen's claim was a problem because it had so much utility, but did not require a sacrifice in damage. It gave a TON of stats to supports to try to feel like a good purchase for them, but it ended up giving so many stats that it was a good buy for mid laners.

That's why a new stat is needed, imo.

Beldair1 votes

Tbh, I don't think UP would work..

  1. You would have to add it to every single champion and some items.

  2. it would be a nightmare to scale.

  3. we really don't need a new stat, just balancing of support items so that they can't really be abuses by other roles.

For instance, that new support item that heals allies and damages enemies...I believe some roles might start abusing that item..

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

  1. Yep, that's exactly my point.

  2. Eh. It would be a lot of work, but if the game really, truly benefits, it could be worth it.

  3. I disagree here.

I agree that Redemption might become a problem, and THAT'S the issue. Riot is CONSTANTLY designing new items to try to curb the problem that supports have (less gold, less xp). Every single preseason they use a new approach, and supports are REALLY AWESOME for awhile. UNTIL someone figures out how to abuse the item in other lanes. Then it gets nerfed. Then supports don't benefit as much and go back to being mediocre.

I believe this will happen with Knight's Vow and Redemption as soon as competitive play ramp back up. That's my prediction. And that continuing cycle indicates that a more drastic solution is needed. If I'm wrong this time, I'll be thrilled! Honestly. But my cynical side is preparing for the inevitable abuse of support items and the continuation of the cycle. Riot NEEDS to do something big to change that, and a new stat could do it.

5050BS1 votes

Iv always thought they should make support items like they do jungle items.

So you take heal as a summoners soell and can then buy 3 types of items (tanks, Healy, CC)

Same with exhaust.

They could expand the idea to all Summoners spells.

Ignite items are AP burst, AD burst, DOT burn boost.

Teleport items give like group TP, Barron pit TP, Dragon pit TP ext

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

That's a pretty cool idea. That would be a cool way to introduce some variability to the support role, but I do worry that if they were very strong they could get easily abused by other lanes. That idea could easily be incorporated into some other strategies to help with that, though.

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