PSA: Dying under tower can be called overextending

DREADN0UGHT··55 votes·2,522 views

If Ziggs has 300 hp left and tries to poke a full HP Leblanc by moving up to her while she is sieging, and she just QRWs him, its called overextending, not ''they dove me wtf is this jungler doing''.

Thank you.

EDIT: I feel like I need clarify this as some people find it in their heart that the example given above should be taken in a strictly literal way. Ziggs and Leblanc were an example. Donc start lecturing my ass on how I should Jungle, that was not the idea here. It could have been the jungler covering the lane with 300 hp, dying to a fucking Yorick for all i care, the point remains the same.

I jungle in Plat, I know how to do my job to some extent. If a laner tries to 1v1 and ends up dying, it has nothing to do with the jungler's position on the map. Junglers have paths they follow, they have plans laid out (the good ones at least). You can't expect a jungler, or any other player on your team for that matter, to have a 6th sense about every garbage decision someone is about to make and adapt their plans within the immediate moment in order to save others. Its a team game, but people need to learn to carry their own weight too. One team made of 5 individuals.

48 Comments

OneMustFall19 votes

If someone isn't rotating when the enemy laner is pushed up that far, there's a problem. Other than AFKing, or abandoning lane, what is your teammate supposed to do? Dumb statement.

Leeerzeichen2 votes

Recalling?

Supreme Senpai692 votes

LeBlanc sucks at taking towers so there's really no reason to not recall, yea.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

Recalling?

Turret first blood. no can do.

Shadowatom1 votes

That way, they can kill you AND get turret FB! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

That way, they can kill you AND get turret FB!

And double FB will tilt your whole team, too.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

That way, they can kill you AND get turret FB! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Or the jungle can easily come push them back off the tower with you. Jungle assistance doesn't have to be a gank, they tax and get gold. EZpz

Shadowatom1 votes

Maybe after you back, sure. They can hold the lane while you back, but trying to stay or push with assistance with low hp against a leblanc, could just be my noob talking I'll 100% admit that I haven't gone against a ton of leblancs, seems like suicide imo at least depending on the jungler.

VoidStaresBack1 votes

Unless the enemy is really good at pushing towers (and usually not even then) all they will get is some tower damage. If you overstay your welcome, even if under your own tower, they get a kill and some tower damage, giving them an immediate gold lead.

SwiftKitten882 votes

{quoted}

Turret first blood. no can do.

um.. yes u can recall... turrets take WAY less damage early game.

and my god its a Ziggs... giving first blood on turrets is like a ziggs buff to begin with.

besides ok any champ that "dives" you.. as long as they cant 100/0 you instantly, you can just throw your E down under you. and that usually deters them from going in.

nice table4 votes

most junglers cant actually 1v1 leblanc and the ziggs wont be able to get close enough to help without dying. dont expect a gank when you are at 10% health and the enemy laner is full.

superfire4443 votes

You don't have to 1v1 the leblanc as jungler you just have to take the pressure of the lane so ziggs can safely recall without losing a ton of minions.

nice table2 votes

i mean sure in a ideal world your jungler has nothing better to do than to babysit you for somehow getting to the point with ziggs where a leblanc can dive you, in reality they usually do have better shit to do and your jungler not helping you doesnt excuse people over staying to the point of death.

superfire4441 votes

All you have to do is show your face mid and tada job done. Takes ~10 seconds and it helps ziggs A SHIT TON.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Wait, are there jungler who complain about being able to sit in a lane and get free xp and gold? Fuck, I've always loved when one of my teammates had to recall so I could get an advantage over the enemy jungler without doing anything.

DREADN0UGHT6 votes

I'll explain, since you don't seem to be getting it.

leblanc is hyper mobile and unless your jungler has good burst or lockdown potential, there is no point in trying to gank her. But that is beyond the point, I was not talking about the jungle not ''rotating'' properly. My point is, if you are under tower and try engaging an enemy , ,that can clearly kill you with one spell rotation, just for the sake of poking or csing, and that enemy kills you for it: its called ''overextending''. There is no bullshit that tilts me more from this earth than people who say ''well I was under tower, i wasn't overextending''.

here is a good plan for you:

  • Base and ping the jungler to defend, he will IF HE ISN'T ACROSS THE MAP DOING SOMETHING ELSE
  • Stay away from whatever champion you are facing's trading arc, go look a tutorial up
  • Ask the jungle for assistance BEFORE you get stuck under tower. If you have basic understanding of the game, you know when the lane is going to be pushing you in. Junglers don't have a fixed camera on everyone's ass, they are not all knowing gods of macro play. Sometimes a simple ping to give him a heads up is actually a big deal.
  • Don't try to 1v1 unless you have a clear advantage, although, this on falls short in low elo because everybody greeds for kills like flies on shit.

You're the one with the dumb statement.

OneMustFall7 votes

OH MY GOD I CAN'T ROTATE BECAUSE I'M TOO BUSY GETTING MY FARM I HAVE NO MAP AWARENESS.

TIME TO BLAME SOMEONE FOR DYING WHO IS UNDER TOWER AND THEN WHINE ABOUT IT ON FORUMS.

DREADN0UGHT5 votes

says the one whole would blame the jungler for dying in lane on your own.

Typical bronze 4. :)

DeathBot66614 votes

As a permanent member of bronze 4, we resent this.

We're not all stupid and don't understand that caps lock doesn't make your argument more valid.

Some of us just have to queue with 4 of them.

OneMustFall1 votes

OMG YOU WOUND ME

CARRY ME TO PLAT V WHERE ALL THE PROS HANG OUT SENPAI

MigYalle1 votes

Well if it is Ziggs, he should be able to clear the wave fast enough while staying at a long-range, (This is his fault and problem here) Howevber if you couldn't go help him in time then your failing aswell, albeit your the Top-Laner you could of gone down to his lane by the time his wave pushed up and was killed, The Jungler could of ganked or went to defend the turret in time, the support could of gone mid and helped wave clear/defend him, the only one unable to leave lane in my opinion would be the adc, no matter your position, all it takes is a Shift+MB1, or V. Another thing is, You don't seem to understand that a Ziggs will obviously NOT "engage" a enemy under turret while low health, LeBlanc has an extremely versitile kit that klets her tower dive and kill someone like Ziggs in a single spell rotation and due to that fact he most likely got dove from one side of the turret range to the other and it isn't his fault, his health is shown above the minimap, if you know he needs help, call it out damn it. Don't just wait for him to die and then wait to tell him what he could of done.

Partholonian1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Miguel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qK0m4ip6,comment-id=000100020001,timestamp=2016-08-08T14:17:20.651+0000)

LeBlanc has an extremely versitile kit that klets her tower dive and kill someone like Ziggs in a single spell rotation

Isn't that exactly his point? Low health Ziggs, knowing that, should walk back past the tower to where LB can't touch him without taking turret shots before she even gets into range, and then he should press B. Losing a wave of CS and some turret damage is better than dying and then losing a wave of CS and some turret damage.

If someone else is available to hold turret, great, but if not, you still need to B when you need to B.

Knoyle1 votes

If leblanc does half your health in a combo, staying under turret while below half hp isn a stupid thing to do. It's better to just let them have the turret than letting them have the turret and a kill.

Mylon Requiem7 votes

Thanks for this. As a Leblanc main I can attest to how silly it is when I see an opponent who doesn't know to respect the dive and doesn't have a jungler on the way.

Annoys me when people complain about a champion for being "broken" when they refuse to play properly against them.

DREADN0UGHT4 votes

its kinda like complaining about a Zed all inning you when you were oom, calling it broken.

blueberrypancake1 votes

I don't get who is downvoting this

FioraWillCarry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mylon Requiem,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qK0m4ip6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-07T20:30:46.786+0000)

As a Leblanc main

My God, how do you sleep at night ?

Mylon Requiem1 votes

I don't sleep at night.

I sleep during the day.

And I do it oh so soundly.

General Esdeath 3 votes

I call that a good gank potential

Yfrappefort2 votes

I prefer the term "overstaying" if someone is getting killed at his tower when he clearly had enough time to recall to safety.

Partholonian1 votes

True. "Extend" is the wrong word for being on your own side of the river.

The OP's main point stands though: B > death, even though both give up lane pressure.

Troll for Trump2 votes

If he's been pushed that far in for a while:

Jgler needs to gank, or someone needs to roam. Easy gank, don't just stand there as he can't do anything but constantly keep losing lane. HELP HIM

ADC is a Meme3 votes

{quoted}

If he's been pushed that far in for a while:

Jgler needs to gank, or someone needs to roam. Easy gank, don't just stand there as he can't do anything but constantly keep losing lane. HELP HIM

Gank a LB with a ziggs mid? That sounds like a waste of time. Ziggs should back and the jungler should rotate mid to pick up farm that would otherwise be lost. The lane being pushed doesn't mean the jungler should auto gank the lane.

TequilaZombie1 votes

If you gank an exposed LB she will have to burn through her mana to get away, will take free damage and will play much more defensively for a few minutes. Ziggs out ranges her, assuming he knows how to wait for her to burn her gap closer (either running or turning on you) he can safely engage and help, making sure the jungler survive.

A gank doesn't need to be about killing the enemy or burning a flash. Sometimes just getting some free damage on the enemy laner balances the lane and gives your team an advantage.

Joquan1 votes

Doing so also alerts other enemy lanes of your positions and allows them to go much more aggressively or defensively if needed. It also depends on your jungler, if you're shyvana you are wasting time trying to gank a leblanc.

If i'm playing pantheon and I see you're near the bottom half of mid, your top laner is going to have a bad time.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Ganking or going for objectives always alerts other enemy lanes of your position. It's a price you pay for helping out your laners.

Troll for Trump1 votes

You need to pressure LB. Make her burn resources.

Don't complain when she wins lane because she's been pushing deep all game and no one is doing anything.

Don't complain when she snowballs because you applied 0 pressure mid.

Don't complain when she starts roaming and ganking more than you, because she's constantly pushing and there's 0 pressure.

If the lane is pushed for a short while, you don't have to gank. If it's being pushed in a LOT you need pressure, or they'll either snowball on kills, or be able to run rampant throughout the map. The mid laner will be losing gold constantly as well.

LatetotheRace2 votes

I think overstaying is a better term.

WhiperSnapers1 votes

Yeah, the example is basically the definition of overstaying. If you are low health and using your turret as cover, you have to ask yourself "if I was in the enemy's shoes would I be able to get the kill?" If the answer is yes, then you need to recall or else the chance of getting killed increases with every second that you stay.

Reaper Soraka1 votes

Truth hurts. Towers are not a point you absolutely must defend to the death; you need to know when to let it go.

Emerald Fang1 votes

Please stop using "PSA" before every forum post. We get it.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

By contrast, you can literally be humping the enemy tower and still not be overextended. If you're still safe in that position, then guess what? You're not overextended.

dominusx1 votes

If you get dove outside of toplane then you are simply stupid i mean toplane is easy as F to dive since towers barely scratch most toplaners but getting dove in the damn midlane or overstaying vs a high mobility champ with 1/4 of your hp? nah you must be dumb. and the moment you get solodived by your enemy without jungle pressence you know the jungler is gonna mute you and ignore you for the rest f the game

Maximum Morde1 votes

People can call Caitlyn Jenner a woman, but it doesn't make it true.

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

don't get it.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

There are a good MANY junglers, who completely ignore certain lanes for the entire game. OP you are completely right about junglers having routes, etc. however you always need to be ready to adapt to how your team is doing. Saving a laner is definitely more important than doing Raptors or Wolves if you are in a position to give them a hand.

In your example, not so practical to help the Ziggs but in my long time of playing I rarely see any player in any ELO who is dumb enough to stay in lane when low enough for a LB to 100-0.

Some honest advice, I really believe you should reconsider your opinion and become more of a team player yourself because it sounds like you think you are incapable of helping your teammates when you most likely could if you really wanted to.

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