Unpopular opinion - Patch 6.9

DREADN0UGHT·May 7, 2016·231 votes·10,193 views

I know its an unpopular opinion on the boards, but I personally enjoy the new patch quite alot. I play Jungle alot, and I feel like they gave me a valid reason to hang around objectives, rather than force me into killing a lane to get towers down as quickly as possible.

I'm extremely satisfied with the damage amp on towers. I paid the price for risky dives last night when I played, and I now know that towers are an actual threat, rather than card castles who tickle a tank at level 10. It tells me that I don't have to worry about my top laner being 3 maned by the 6th minute.

I like the new dragon buffs. It adds a little spice to improvised plans. Its a great upgrade from the original buff stacks. I feel like drakes now have an obvious strategic niche.

Rift Herald is a little OP with that 20 minute, unlosable buff, but I actually feel like he is worth roaming around early in the game when drake isn't up. Giving that buff to a mid or top laner is just pure magic!

I'm not too fond of buff camp spawn indicators, but they do shape the jungling game in their own way. You can plan your paths around a potential enemy path.

Sure, its not perfect, lots of nerfs and buffs should be coming to ''balance'' things out. But overall, I'm savvy.

201 Comments

MigYalleMay 7, 201621 votes

I agree [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

THESuperStuntManMay 7, 201617 votes

I definitely like adding more objectives to fight over, but there were also a lot of bad things added with the patch.

Most of the mage "reworks" were flat nerfs.

No one wanted the buff timers.

Making the blue buff even BETTER for midlaners is frustrating as a jungler since it feels like I'm hurting the team when I take it even when my midlaner is losing lane really hard.

Rift herald buff is really annoying since as a jungler, I need my top laner to help take it, and he tries to take the buff for himself even when he's 0-5-0.

DREADN0UGHTMay 7, 201625 votes

{quoted}

Most of the mage "reworks" were flat nerfs.

True, they are implementing a hotfix for some of them soon. Give it time, they will balance things around.

No one wanted the buff timers.

I don't think that is true. The reason they implemented these timers, I believe, is because Jungle is the hardest role to pick-up as a new player. Its not as simple as just last hitting things and trading with an opponent. So these new timers kinda help with that. I don't think it will fix all problems, and it does close the skill-gap quite a bit. But good junglers already knew how to keep tabs on these things.

Making the blue buff even BETTER for midlaners is frustrating as a jungler since it feels like I'm hurting the team when I take it even when my midlaner is losing lane really hard.

I doubt your mid laners always lose lane, and I'm pretty certain you are more than happy to give a winning midlaner his blue buff.

Rift herald buff is really annoying since as a jungler, I need my top laner to help take it, and he tries to take the buff for himself even when he's 0-5-0.

Again, taking into account that ''one bad experience'' to lever an argument is kinda like proving yourself wrong. Either way, I would rather give my losing top laner the herald buff so he can catch up without my help.

Kr1sysMay 7, 20164 votes

{quoted} I don't think that is true. The reason they implemented these timers, I believe, is because Jungle is the hardest role to pick-up as a new player. Its not as simple as just last hitting things and trading with an opponent. So these new timers kinda help with that. I don't think it will fix all problems, and it does close the skill-gap quite a bit. But good junglers already knew how to keep tabs on these things.

Timers already existed though, the visual indicators only help those that didn't see a buff being cleared which would've been in the case of a counter-jungle. In most situations that really only gave info to laners to provide more free information to set up for ambushes to limit counter jungling.

DREADN0UGHTMay 7, 20166 votes

You are missing a small detail here.

Timers existed, true, but you only had timer if you had vision on the buff as it was cleared. If you got vision on the camp AFTER it was cleared, you would not have timer.

What these new indicators offer, is to have a clear warning of when a buff will respawn, as long as you got vision on said buff when or after it was cleared.

So now, I don't need to ward the enemy camps to see the buff get taken down, only to get a timer. I can just walk by the cleared camp, and voilà, just wait for the map indicator and you know when its coming.

I don't know if that was clear, but yeah lol

B1naryB0tMay 7, 20161 votes

You're the first person I've heard say that like it's a good thing...

DREADN0UGHTMay 7, 20165 votes

Just stating facts. Never saidi liked itlol

puseaMay 7, 20161 votes

{quoted} Making the blue buff even BETTER for midlaners is frustrating as a jungler since it feels like I'm hurting the team when I take it even when my midlaner is losing lane really hard.

As a jungler you're not entitled to any blue/red buff beyond the first, just because you're a jungler with smite. And in case you think I have some kind of bias, no, the mid laner and ADC isn't entitled to the buff (beyond the first) either.

I'm also certain mid laners and ADCs probably also feel the same way about leaving the buffs to Smite when you go 0-5-0. Those deaths are never your fault, nope.

You're only ever entitled to the first buff red/blue buff you acquire.

Need Gold 4 TentMay 8, 20162 votes

I beg to differ. The whole jungle belongs to the jungler entirely BECAUSE he has smite. Now for the logic behind that statement:

The jungler gets his exp from these camps. The jungle is balanced around the jungler having machete/talisman which is why taking camps from a jungler can possibly hurt him. That being said, taking the occasional camps are fine if he ganks too often to actually farm them.
Even if one tries to argue "better usage", unless the laners were Cho/Nunu, the jungler will get the camp if he wants to. Piss him off? You're never getting blue, especially if he's timing his smite for it. That's being a douche? Well, I didn't say the jungler's blameless in this case, but the point is, if he doesn't want you to get a camp, you're not getting it. That alone defines his entitlement to it, whether or not he actually "deserves" it.

Battlecast SonaMay 8, 20162 votes

Most of the mage "reworks" were flat nerfs.

Vladimir Malzahar Ziggs Velkoz Annie Cassiopeia would like a word with you. Sure, some of them seemed like flat nerfs (Fiddlesticks) but he's actually getting PLAYED now because the compensatory buffs were way bigger. There were also a lot of fringe mage assassins and supports that are hugely loving the new hextech items and AP items available to them. Champs like Diana have options out of catalyst that aren't RoA (and can get another spell for their rotation with GLP) making it a more viable option in the jungle without making an item that necessitates stacks. Lots of AP junglers also benefitted from the new AP items coming with more EXP in the jungle for machete makers...

Tons of mages are in a way better spot now than they were before, just because a couple of them missed the mark doesn't mean all of them were bad. 16 mages were changed all at once, pretending every change was bad is ridiculous.

Also, giving Herald buff to your top laner is really the way to go, because it's unlikely as a jungler (unless you're invading heavily) that you'll get much use out of the buff (since now it only works when there are no allied champions near you). Also, unless it was changed, Rift Herald buff currently doesn't fall off when you die...

ForeverLaxxMay 8, 20161 votes

Vlad was nerfed, Vel was nerfed, Cass was nerfed, Annie is a wash and Malz is about to get nerfed.

Battlecast SonaMay 8, 20162 votes

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Vlad got a HUGE buff to his self-sustain (Hemoplague does heals now and Q heals for % max HP on the third cast), his E deals WAY more damage and has a slow (and doesn't have a really stupid stacking mechanic), his build opened up because he isn't required to rush revolver 100% of the time. DEFINITE buff (I have lots and lots of Vlad games stretching back all the way to season 1... He's in a better state than pretty much any time of the game aside from actual Season 1.)

Vel'Koz gained scaling on his true damage AND his ultimate now does ENTIRELY TRUE DAMAGE. Definitely a nerf, Kappa.

Cassiopeia lost .5 seconds on her E but has way better scalings (and now instead of stacking 500 stacks she gets an extra item slot, WAY better). Also, Grounded.

It's like you didn't actually play any of them. Every single one of the mages you named is WORLDS better from a thematic standpoint and an actual gameplay standpoint than they were prior to the changes. Annie may be a "wash" but Tibbers is WAY easier to control and much stronger than he was previously.

ZacsterMay 7, 201611 votes

I guess this isn't such an unpopular opinion.

DREADN0UGHTMay 7, 20163 votes

Ikr, 35 notifications in 3 hours. Wtf am i supposed to do

Mister SupportMay 7, 20167 votes

Your opinion isn't that unpopular. Look at any of the higher tier streamers, they all agree that the patch is fun as hell and fixed plenty of issues. I also agree, there's more options for mages with items, overall power is around the same point in that sense, and the reworks accomplished what they wanted. Dragons are cool, towers are stronger and less likely to die early, and the metagolem tanks were made a bit weaker.

DengedenMay 7, 20166 votes

I have mixed feelings about Herald. Taking 2 people off the map for the minute it takes to secure it gives up a surprising amount of pressure.

DREADN0UGHTMay 7, 201623 votes

True, but the whole point of making Herald what it is was to give it the same importance as other objectives like Drakes or Baron. It shouldn't just be a camp to clear while on the way to top lane gank. Herald now feels impactful, and is best taken as a 3 man team or more. So the best way to aproach this is by taking herald after making a play on mid/top lane.

Killing a laner relieves your team from that pressure, then Herald becomes an option. Kinda like Drakes.

Kitten of EvilMay 7, 20165 votes

I agree that the patch had some good changes (the tower aggro thing is great and the dragon buffs are strategic and interesting).

As a mage main (Vel'Koz and Anivia are two of my most played champions), I'm really not happy with the changes. I don't think either of those two champions was really in desperate need of a rework before. Why fix what isn't broken? In the name of creating separate niches for each, Riot doesn't seem to really know what they're looking for.

Vel'Koz now depends on landing a three-spell combo to unlock his passive and deal damage. Know who else does that? New Brand. How exactly are the two in "different niches" now, except that Brand's passive proc is AOE and much stronger? Vel's strength before was that he could proc his passive with his ult, making him a formidable teamfight presence. Now his teamfight presence is very weak.

And I've still not seen any Red comments explaining their thought process on the Anivia ult nerf, although at least they are reverting it by 20%.

For the marksmen changes, Riot was respectful of the champions and how they were played. Cait got to keep her traps, headshot, and net. MF got to keep her Strut passive, double up, make it rain, and her ult. Even with the larger scale reworks (Graves and Quinn), most of their gameplay stayed the same. Graves still has to dive close to you to maximize his damage and he kept his trademark ult and smokescreen. Quinn still vaults to you, throws Quinn at you, and excels at dueling.

It feels like Riot really respected marksmen and players' expectations of them. When there were kit changes, there were a lot of buffs: Cait's headshot and Quinn's Harrier now scale with crit, MF ult can now crit, Corki gets "The Package". But for mages, it feels like Riot has decreed "we think these mages should be played this way" and expects those playerbases to just fall in line even as their champions' basic gameplay changes.

DREADN0UGHTMay 7, 20162 votes

I can only agree with what you said about Vel'Koz.

his ulti was clearly meant to blast multiple enemies at once, and they made his current kit kinda counter-intuitive.

SlappybiscuitMay 7, 20162 votes

If quinns game play was preserved I'd still be playing Quinn. They destroyed Quinn and gave us a new champ with the same name. I understand some people like the new Quinn, but don't pretend she is anything like her former self because some abilities are the same.

the Anarchit3chtMay 7, 20167 votes

Apart from her blind being changed and her ult being a toggle now or whatever she is literally the exact same champion. I don't see what your point is. They didn't even change any of her abilities, t hey just changed how they functioned slightly.

SlappybiscuitMay 7, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=the Anarchit3cht,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=prPEluoj,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2016-05-07T17:13:44.694+0000)

her ult being a toggle now

yeah you sure know what you're talking about. Her ult defined her playstyle, its gone now replaced with a roam mechanic.

the Anarchit3chtMay 7, 20163 votes

They still changed almost nothing about her. You said "because some abilities are the same" well guess what? All abilities are the same with minor tweaks. You're complaint is baseless. I saw no need to change her ult personally, but I don't mind how it is now. Yes, you lose the valor play style, but it really was only used to move in and delete someone, so.

Rico NastyMay 7, 20164 votes

[deleted]

DREADN0UGHTMay 7, 201647 votes

Well its funny that you would say that, because it just so happens I played 7 games last night with a Mid Zyra main, and he carried a couple of these games, and was impactful in all of them through hard CC chains and zoning.

I think Zyra is actually very good atm. Her ability to have multiple plants around really makes her a zone control mage threat. And everybody thought Rito were reworking her into support! Ha!

Troll for TrumpMay 7, 20164 votes

One person doing well with a champ(that's a dedicated main) does not determine the strength of a champ.

AzteryzMay 7, 201639 votes

picking up a new champ expecting to instantly do well is what you would prefer then?

Best Kog NAMay 7, 20164 votes

That sounds alot like Yi players [slayer-jinx-wink]

Troll for TrumpMay 7, 20166 votes

That's...not at all what I was saying. How did you even get that? I'm saying, if you were to have a Diamond player who mained Noc only winning a lot, that wouldn't mean Nocturne is broken. It's just one guy. You need to look at the data across multiple games, which is what websites like champion.gg can do.

AzteryzMay 7, 201614 votes

states that ops comment is redundant with no insight or any sort of explanation as to why

you didn't give me a lot to base off that mate

Troll for TrumpMay 8, 20162 votes

? One person doing well with a champ(that's a dedicated main) does not determine the strength of a champ.

One person- One player

Doing well- That one player having good performance with the champ

Does not determine the strength of the champ- That one player having good performance with the champ does not indicate it's overall strength or domination in the current meta

Rew711May 7, 20162 votes

Now, this is also a very biased opinion... but, jungle never seemed to be in much need of repairs. I'm glad objectives feel better now, and that things in the jungle are fixed, but... When I'm going in as some Tanks, and getting Tank items on them... why do I feel less like someone that can take a hit and more like someone who should be sending damage instead? I don't play tanks a lot... but its just that I never liked having less of a reason to buy a tank item. The only tank items that really feel like something a tank should buy are not many (compared to the vast amount of AP and AD items that is). I don't want another tank + damage item, why not a tank + bonus tank item? A item that possibly gives a ton of health, and then turns around and gives tenacity. Or gives armor and magic resist, and then has an ability that if stunned or snared, they gain double the amount on the item. I don't know, something to make Tanks feel hard to kill. When I play some of the mages, I feel like I rely on my kit so much but I don't have the necessary things to help me. Like mana. Why not have a item that allows me to gain mana and then turn around and every 120 seconds my next ability is halved? Or, something for the manaless mage champs like Kennen where I gain bonus damage on my abilities based on how much ability power he has (like having +1 damage per every 50 AP)? I don't like how some Marksmen have better uses for some items than others. Not talking about kits in general, AS and Crit have really become staples among most champions. Getting AD is only to enhance the damage of AA or abilities. Why not have a damaging item with more worked into it, like how one gives bonus MS and removes debuffs, why not have one just block 5% of critical damage and have the enemy's AS slowed by 5% of its current amount? Now, this is probably too much (on the outside) but it honestly wouldn't do much in game and might not or barely be touched. Just like the AD and Lifesteal bonus support item Rito took away (and right after I integrated it into many of my support builds). Jungle, though, has many itemizations that are fine and useful. Just look at the Sated items Riot brought. Though, for Support, there just don't seem to be many. At least for the Fighter/Supports. Nunu and Thresh have to always go Tank. Taric had and has the same issue, he's a Support/Fighter still. There is no Fighter Support items anymore after the original Zeke's was removed (it was honestly replaced, not reworked... with a new name, new icon, new ability, nothing of the original stayed). There are three support items that one can start with, item 3401 for Tank/Supports, item 3069 for any of them, and item 3092 for mostly Mage/Supports. Funny how there are only three types of Supports (Tank, Fighter, and Mage) and Fighters have nothing specific for them to use. Why not bring back something like Zeke's Herald and instead of just health and the passive, we instead give out the original bonus 20 AD and bonus 10% life steal passive but gain to ourselves bonus health regen, 5% tenacity, 20 armor and 20 magic resist. (Also, the original Zeke's passive did not give the holder the bonus AD or lifesteal.)

DREADN0UGHTMay 7, 201616 votes

{quoted}

Now, this is also a very biased opinion...

I stopped reading there.

Rew711May 8, 20163 votes

yeah... i knew that would happen. i guess i'm not going to get my opinion out there if i can't even get the guy i commented on to read it. (at least this is the only down side to my day)

OyddAWqJ5rMay 8, 201612 votes

Or you could try reading your post yourself. Go ahead, try. See if maybe the creator can make it through his own text wall. My eyes can't even focus on the words.

Try using these:

[Enter Key]

Triple -'s

Pretty pictures (item/champ icons) Evelynn Warwick item 3124 item 3030

bold letters

#hashtagged phrases

italics

and quotes

to help break up your text wall into a more reader friendly piece of art.

Ashe JungleMay 8, 20164 votes

Wonderful suggestions. But this:

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=prPEluoj,comment-id=000600000002000100000000,timestamp=2016-05-08T02:53:45.173+0000)

hashtagged phrases

Please, you are killing me here. This is a #hashtagged phrase.

This is a header

#justhtmlthings

Darkslayer85May 7, 20164 votes

Coming from a fellow jungle main, it's amazing to get this diversity in dragons. Riot fulfilled their mission of creating diversity in taking dragon. Prior to this, it had been "nice to have" or "mandatory."

It also creates more teamwork with allies, because now people are saying really positive things, like:

I'd love to take that earth dragon, for the splitpush capability. We need the ocean dragon, I'm getting outsustained here. That fire dragon will help in teamfights, let's go get it! We need to reposition often, so let's pick up that air dragon.

The Fire Dragon was not as powerful as I originally thought, however it remains a popular choice whenever I ask the team if they want it. It affects your teamfighting prowess much more than 1 v 1 duels in the jungle, which I like. The Earth Dragon snowballs games slightly, however it does help take heavily guarded towers. The Air Dragon movement speed could use a slight nudge forward, however it works well to reposition. The Ocean Dragon is amazing to help sustain allies who are falling behind in lane.

Overall, they are great, although the randomness can be annoying. Being given an Earth Dragon as a farming teamcomp can be very disappointing.

FovereMay 7, 20163 votes

I think time will tell w/ respect to 6.9.

Once they start using this in tournaments everyone will see how these changes actually work.

Personally I think they achieved the exact opposite of what they set out to do, a common thread lately

DREADN0UGHTMay 7, 20166 votes

I don't think it will mean much. Solo Q, specially at lower elo, has no similarity with pro play.

OleandervineMay 7, 20162 votes

I think that most Junglers don't really respect the changes to the objectives yet, because I'm finding myself having to constantly tell them that they NEED to take the dragon ASAP because it cannot sit around like the last one did. On top of that, the Mana vs Regen schism is detrimental to mages and other outliers who relied very heavily on toggle effects, notably Singed, and it made a reliance on the water drake a necessity when it really wasn't a problem to begin with. I do like the jungle changes from this patch, and a few of the kit updates, but removing mages' ability to sustain their own mana without resorting to double Doran is just awful and should be re-addressed.

DREADN0UGHTMay 7, 20165 votes

Some people don't read patch notes. Give it time.

YabigMay 7, 20162 votes

See this patch was really beneficial for jungle. I really enjoy what they did with the dragons. However as an adc main, i now hate my life. I lost a game recently where i Had 31 Twitch kills because Zed could kill me with ult e auto and there was nothing anyone on my team could do about it. He even did this to me THROUGH MY SUPPORTS summoner 3 ily rito <3

The Cane MasterMay 8, 20162 votes

Top meta has been stale, Maokai vs Poppy vs Ekko, cmon dude.

BorblandMay 8, 20162 votes

I personally like this patch a lot too, the mages rework is ok, except malzahar no one is really that broken, and the other ones are now alot more fun to play. The new AP itemization is also alot better and flexible, the new drakes are also a refreshing change.

Summonerrr 1May 9, 20162 votes

MYMU conspicuously absent from OP.

Hmm.[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

My eeeeelMay 7, 20161 votes

I personally doesn't like the fact that changed dragon just added a huge random element into the game that can decide the outcome of the game so easily, especially in the tournament level. Despite all of the buffs look pretty attractive, it is only the fire dragon buff that contributes to the teamfight and character strength. In fact, a single fire dragon buff is as strong as two or three dragon buffs before. I can imagine how a one pro team simply just get two fire dragon because it is just the first two that was spawned and their team comp was early game focused, while the other team with more late game comp held on well, only lost those two dragons. And yet, those two fire dragons are strong enough to just crash the late game comp with any champion comp because it is essentially giving them one more core item. On the other hand, it is possible that the early game team just can't snowball because they didn't get the fire dragon.. Despite they secure 4 dragons in a row, non of them could be fire and it is easily doable that opponent team can fight them back once they catch up by farming. They did change the tower to lower the snowball, but it is more like determined by random element. Hardly a good feature for an "e sport"

PartholonianMay 7, 20166 votes

If fire is really THAT OP, then they should nerf it and/or buff the others. But I'm not sure it is that OP, it's just the easiest to appreciate.

Mai Waifu IreliaMay 7, 20164 votes

Honestly they're all strong (the ms buff not quite as much) Fire obviously gives that immediate combat damage, but the ocean and earth are also really good. Ocean doesn't really take off unless you get multiple but it powers pikes pretty big at 2/3 stacks. Earth gives legit insane baron taking power, almost too much imo - it makes "sneaking barons" a joke to be honest. I've both seen and taken stupidly fast barons with 2/3 earth stacks.