Burst beyond burst

Dethflash··4 votes·1,263 views

As you can clearly see in the link Syndra misses all her abilites on Ezreal then just clicks R and ignite on Ezreal and then he dies. From full health to dead in literally one ability.

This discussion isnt about flat out nerfing Syndras ult damage, but changing her ult so that it has some counter play. Think about veigar ult for a second, it can only burst a champion if the champion is missing a certain amount of health (typically half their health or more is missing), with veigar you know if you are missing half your health you need to play very safe and further back. With Syndra anytime she has 4 or 5 balls anywhere on the map you are in danger of dying no matter your health (unless you are a tank, but im talking about mid laners so mostly mages and assassins). While the counter play to syndra and veigar ult are similar, standing futher back and playing safe, veigar ult is only a threat if you are about half health or less, syndra ult though is a threat no matter you health if she has 4 or 5 balls, but when you are laning against syndra she is going to be using her Q to help last hit some minions and many times their jungler gives her blue buff then she is always have atleast 4 or 5 balls on the map at once. My suggested change, tweak, whatever you want to call it, Syndra ult only does extra damage if her balls are in a certain range of Syndra. This change would require syndra to actually think about what she is doing with her balls instead of just spamming and throwing them everywhere. Syndra ult can still do as much damage, but getting a 5 ball set up would require some actual using of the brain.

I think a good starting range for the ult ball criteria would be the max range of syndras stun. A small change like this could make it so playing against a syndra wouldnt be a nightmare 99% of the time. If you see syndra has 5 balls in lane stand further back so that you are in range of only 1 or 2 balls extra from her ult. If syndra lands a good stun you are still going to die most likely, but this could help reduce the: walks up and clicks R, part about syndra that frustrates many summoners.

If you have any Positive or constructive feedback feel free to leave a comment down below.

24 Comments

TheJakeinator7 votes

She has no mobility or ways to escape engage so I don't mind her damage. It is absurd yeah but if you are in rnage of a 4 item syndra as ezreal you deserve what you get for your garbage positioning

Jbels5 votes

{quoted}

She has no mobility or ways to escape engage so I don't mind her damage. It is absurd yeah but if you are in rnage of a 4 item syndra as ezreal you deserve what you get for your garbage positioning

Garbage positioning? He dodged literally everything she threw at him. He should be rewarded for not getting hit by any of her abilities, not get instantly bursted down by one point and click spell. Imagine if Veigar missed all of his shit but his ult still one-shot you. Is that fair at all? No, that's why it can't unless you let him farm to like 1200 AP

TheJakeinator6 votes

He positioned badly by being that close to her anyways. That is ezreals fault and im sure he would be the first to tell you that was a case of him not being smart and nothing to do with syndra having an OP ult

Jbels3 votes

{quoted}

He positioned badly by being that close to her anyways. That is ezreals fault and im sure he would be the first to tell you that was a case of him not being smart and nothing to do with syndra having an OP ult

Actually it has everything to do with her ult. If a champion is a walking circle of death that only has to use one ability to kill you despite missing all of the others, there's a problem. Veigar has the same zone of death going on with him, but he has counterplay. You can dodge his W, you can dodge his Q, you can avoid the stun. Why is the Ezreal at fault when Syndra breaks basic rules of counterplay?

TheJakeinator6 votes

Where is Ezreals Banshee's viel? or his Guardian's Angel? Or his Maw? or his support with shields and healing and cc?

Just because you don't use the counterplay afforded to you doesn't mean it isn't there

Jbels4 votes

{quoted}

Where is Ezreals Banshee's viel? or his Guardian's Angel? Or his Maw? or his support with shields and healing and cc?

Just because you don't use the counterplay afforded to you doesn't mean it isn't there

Look how early it is in the game, they both only have one completed item built...

TheJakeinator6 votes

Ezreal was slightly less then full hP, he also stuck around long enough for a syndra to get a 6 ball Ult and ignite him. I don't see the problem here

Zero Skill Tank3 votes

The problem is that you completely deserve to safely stick around enemy mage after successfully outplaying all their abilities except a single point and click.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Garbage positioning?

Yeah, his team was setting up for dragon. What is the ADC even doing solo mid fighting over 4cs against the burst mage instead of grouping for dragon? Dodge all the skillshots you want that's still a dumb place for him to be.

Mysticman897 votes

Saying she missed all her abilities in syndras case is a little bit misleading, since the 'missed' abilities still sets up extra orbs for more ult damage.

I agree syndra ult is a bit silly in its potential damage output, but I'm not sure your change would help much. Syndras balls do disappear fairly quickly if she's not interacting with them, so having '4 or 5 balls anywhere on the map' is going to be the same as having 4 or 5 balls in syndra range. (Also I'm pretty sure syndra can normally have 3 balls on the map from her non-ultimate abilities and that takes some set up anyway, the extra balls come directly from her ult.)

Divewing7 votes

People also seem to forget Tlords is a thing.

Keystones breaking parts of champions kits that were otherwise balanced before, happy days.

Dethflash1 votes

Awww good old thunderlords proc from a single ability that is single target.

RenownedWheat426 votes

6 orb ult syndra on a 0 defense squishy.

Isn't it the JOB of people like Syndra to burst down ADCs before the ADC runs through their whole team?

AMYS GRAVE5 votes

ignite, ult,

and the ez was way out of position,

and a 42 cs lead over the ez,

and a three level lead,

and had to blow flash to not die after,

Zero Skill Tank3 votes

Froggen only needed to burn flash because he literally walked into naut tho.

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

fair enough, but the rest still holds.

Zero Skill Tank3 votes

Not really. Ignite definitely didn't have 5 seconds to tick and 42 cs is meaningless since Froggen was sitting on gold. The only thing that holds is 3 level lead, because the fact that Ez can be still considered out of position after successfully outplaying all of Syndra's non-point-and-click abilities is exactly what's bullshit here. You totally deserve to use basic attacks on a mage who just missed everything they could possibly miss.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

Not really. Ignite definitely didn't have 5 seconds to tick

So, it was still a cooldown used, and it was part of the combo that killed him.

and 42 cs is meaningless since Froggen was sitting on gold.

So was arrow. Froggen backed with 197 cs and arrow backed with 161 cs. When the play happened froggen had 220 cs and arrow had 181 cs so both had just over 20 cs unspent gold. So both in terms of cs collected and in gold spent there was a lead.

The only thing that holds is 3 level lead, because

Yes, that holds too.

the fact that Ez can be still considered out of position after successfully outplaying all of Syndra's non-point-and-click abilities is exactly what's bullshit here.

Look at how his teammates pathed into river. They knew they couldn't just path into lane right in front of the syndra without one of them getting blown up. They walked back into river because the next fight was going to be over dragon and they had ward control over it. Taric, Naut, and Kha were all warding/sweeping the area the fight was about to be in, and if arrow had chilled out with his team instead of pathing into mid over 4 cs they would have a free dragon or a fight that echo fox had to blind facecheck. Win win either way for them.

Arrow didn't outplay anything here, he took a greedy path for a few cs away from any of his teammates, and got punished for it.

I'm not saying the play wasn't at least some bullshit, syndra damage is obnoxious, but there's a lot more going on than "press R and win" when froggen earned that lead he had and arrow misplayed that as hard as he did. He never should have been in a position to have to juke anything to begin with because mid wasn't what the fight was over in the first place, dragon was. If he juked 1000 skillshots it still doesn't matter if he's not even fighting over the contested objective in the first place.

ZT Xperimentor5 votes

It's almost as if a burst mage is attacking a glass cannon. [zombie-brand-clap]

Tiddy Twister4 votes

I absolutely love how people are trying to justify a 100-0 point-click spell. It's actually mind-boggling.

Also OP, I see you saw my post from the other Syndra post xd

Zero Skill Tank3 votes

It becomes twice as disgusting once you notice Syndra isn't even building full damage. She easily could have even more damage on ult at this point in the game, if she didn't opt for mana, 30% CDR and negatron.

This is not 100-0 point and click spell. It's point-and-click OVERKILL spell.

Dethflash1 votes

Yeah great video. Here is another great syndra related video. Its a bug where syndra ults 2 people at once. Just funny to watch https://youtu.be/6DP4_co0tnY

Tiddy Twister2 votes

You are completely missing the point here. This has nothing to do with setting up for dragon or teammates pathing or anything like that.

It's very simple. LCS adc (one of the best ones in NA too) dodged 3 Syndra abilities, then went aggressive, which is what you're supposed to do when the enemy misses on so much of their damage. The syndra then hit 1 button in point-click fashion and killed him. Even LCS adc didn't expect it to happen, because it SHOULDN'T happen. You are trying to weasel around the issue by bringing up irrelevant facts.

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