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We need more manual intervention in the report system

Dethflash··42 votes·1,524 views

The report system is clearly flawed when someone STREAMS himself intent feeding but does it in a way that nearly undetectable that is why we NEED more manual intervention in the report system to deal with these kinds of people, on paper his score looks alright, but if you watch the gameplay you can tell he is intent feeding. Then crap like this master yi player with 100% win rate and 100% lose rate on tahm kench, he got banned for a week but is back at it again. Having a few extra people manually checking the reports could help a bit. If you have any ideas on how to help fix the report system to be less crappy, and help catch intentional feeders who do it in a way that undetectable in the current system feel free to leave a comment down below.

Master yi with 100% win rate. https://youtu.be/BQ5LXCMwZP0 Intentional feeder who streams himself feeding and describes the science behind how to intent feed and not get banned. https://youtu.be/U0tKaG2-76o

28 Comments

XJochumX17 votes

anyone remember the ribunal? players doing the work for the company and getting some IP for it.

problem solved

Bańg3 votes

{quoted}

anyone remember the ribunal? players doing the work for the company and getting some IP for it.

problem solved

even the tribunal was busted.

all these SJWS were clicking "punish" on people who barely said anything but would then get rewarded with IP for it?

i used it 4 times and actually read through it but after seeing how others use it i didnt even bother.

XJochumX3 votes

so the fix would be to withhold the reward till the actual punishment is made, and you dont get any if your choice was wrong. that way people would actually have to look what they choose.

Bańg1 votes

{quoted}

so the fix would be to withhold the reward till the actual punishment is made, and you dont get any if your choice was wrong. that way people would actually have to look what they choose.

except with tons of assholes spamming punish the person WILL get punished.

all u had to do was click on a button to punish that person.

people would just mindlessly spam click on the same spot for 6 cases before the system said "you're going too fast gotta slow it down" and then repeat the cycle a few minutes later.

macromite1 votes

Just give the tribunal a vetting system. could even get volunteers to help sift out the shitfaces.

It Hertz When IP2 votes

Who watches the Watchmen?

nice table1 votes

the tribunal got innocent players banned, id say that's worse than some not getting banned.

XJochumX1 votes

yeah, thats the problem if someone implements a not well made system.

Devilreaper XIII2 votes

good luck i had a huge and i mean huge discussion when riot decided to implement their so called AI feedback system years ago :/

i said it was a bad idea, but since riot announced this state of the art completely awesome new 0 human intervention AI system of punishing! at a covention, it was never going to stopped or reverted :(

its really a simple system that works through pathing, basically X amount of players report X player X times using the words for example ''yo'' than the system would update the list of inapropriate words/sentences and ''yo'' would become punishable, but the flaw is, if no one would properly write things down the system wont be able to update properly, it can be abused and evaded easily.

not only what you state is wrong but the biggest flaw of their system is that no one looks at the situation :/

which means that perpetrator can get away with it unpunished, and the victim can get punished 0,0

Erockandroll2 votes

I mean hypothetically speaking, Manual Audits happen on players who get pardoned by the Automated systems, but are still getting reported. (Meaning, it's obvious that they slipped though the cracks.)

The problem with this however, even in a manual audit, your not going to find the issue by looking at numbers, you have to look at the game play footage. Which would require the Report system to take footage of said games. (I would wager that Riot's servers, won't have enough hard drive space, given the sheer number of games played.)

And even if Riot had the footage, it takes much longer to review footage than to review numbers and chat logs. So if their are any number of such trolls, it could take a while before Riot would weed them out.

If I were to assume that Riot couldn't easily refer back to the games themselves. The best option for the moment, would to capture highlight reals using the replay function to demonstrate the problemed player, and submit in a support ticket.

HeeroTX1 votes

{quoted}

The problem with this however, even in a manual audit, your not going to find the issue by looking at numbers, you have to look at the game play footage. Which would require the Report system to take footage of said games. (I would wager that Riot's servers, won't have enough hard drive space, given the sheer number of games played.)

Riot DOES have the footage (for at least some period of time), that's how you're able to grab highlights. If Riot really cared about the whole toxicity issue, they NEED to figure out a way to have people check on reported players, it is NOT something that can be automated at this time. In THEORY, it's something that should require less manpower as time goes on (since you'd be weeding out "problem" players) but admittedly, the beginning process would consume a lot of resources. That said, it is TOTALLY something you can make the argument of "prefer reducing problem players over new skins", since arguably ANY employee of Riot can make this determination and it doesn't require a specific "skill" set like code development vs. art talent.

Vectros2 votes

Faith in Riot is dropping.

KVbqbFsC8e2 votes

Its kind of odd that this is only now getting attention when its been a huge problem ever since the Tribunal was removed over 3 years ago.

No flash no life2 votes

Agreed - except, where are you going to find such labor? Riot simply doesn't have the resource to do that, and they never will.

If permanently banned trolls are never allowed to return and repeat their offenses, then maybe riot will be more convinced to invest into report system. However, we know that's not happening, that banning these offenders doesn't do much in the bigger picture.

You ban them, they make new accounts, you ban them again, the cycle repeats. You're in a boat with a hole, bucketing water out of it. Even if you increase the number of buckets, as long as you don't fill the hole up the situation remains unchanged. You need to stop the water from coming in.

And how do we do that? How do we stop the water - the new accounts of banned players - from coming back? Other games have achieved it to a certain extent, by making the game content free, BUT account creation has to cost you dearly just so players watch what they're doing with their accounts because if anything were to happen to them, they cannot rejoin the game infinitely without hurting their wallet.

It won't solve everything, but it's a step in the right direction: it'll stop endless botting accounts, intentional feeders with the "report me idgaf this is my xth account" mentality, smurfing (I know riot doesn't discourage it but lets face it, you wouldn't want to face a diamond smurf in your gold promotion would you?), and outlaws making everyone suffer undeservably before being imprisoned - only to break out of jail right away.

Unfortunately, this approach goes against league's appeal so chances are it won't be considered.

BigNasty30029 votes

They absolutely have the resources. They are just unwilling to invest them in this. Big difference.

To say that the #1 game in terms of money-making doesn't have the resources to police their community is just wrong.

SnakDatSmilesBak1 votes

Is it the number 1 money maker?

simsinfinity2 votes

How many employees would it take? How many games would they have to review? What are they getting paid?

Assuming league numbers are the same as 2014 (the last official player count given by Riot), you're looking at 27 Million people playing daily. If they each only play one game, that's 2.7 Million games. Lets say that only 1% of the games played would need to be reviewed. That's still 27,000 games to review. Lets say the average length of a game with toxicity/need for review is only 20 minutes, you still have 9,000 hours of game to review. 9,000. A day.

If you had full time workers that never took a break and didn't pause between any replay, that would still be an additional 1,125 full time workers. Again, this does not include oversight, peer review, or anything other than watching the game. At minimum wage, you're talking a bare minimum expense to Riot of $19,125,000 a year. That doesn't include costs to train, insurance, benefits, workers comp, taxes, or any other realistic cost associated with having an employee, all of which would more than double the bare minimum hourly salary expense.

But, ya know, RItO is rich, so they can swing it, right?

BigNasty30021 votes

There are a lot of assumptions in your post. You assume that every single account plays a game a day. I highly doubt that. You go on to assume that each game needs to be reviewed in full. It doesn't.

How do phone companies afford call centers? If you think 19 mil is gonna bankrupt riot, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/league-of-legends-2015-revenue-2839

1.6 billion dollars in revenue. Yet they can't afford to review a small percentage of games to keep people from inentionally ruining them for others. Ok.

simsinfinity1 votes

I used riots 2014 reported number of unique players that play daily. I think my assumptions were pretty fair, since I leaned on the extremely low end with everything. for example:

I assumed each person only played one game a day. I am sure that number is much higher.

I assumed only 1% of games would have a report/review situation. I am sure that estimate is almost laughably low.

And yes, 1.6 in revenue is a huge number. But revenue is not profit. Riot already has around 1,000 employees. The cost to run a company with that many employees is incredibly high.

Your blanket sarcastic statement that they can't afford to review a small percentage of games completely ignores the reality of how many games that would mean. You're absolutely correct that my figure of 27,000, which does really on a lot of assumptions, is probably not correct. It if anything, it is wrong on the extreme low end.

I would be curious to know if anyone has seen any more up to date stats on daily players, or if anyone has any other thoughts on how many games they think would need to be manually reviewed. My point is that It is incredibly more complex than just claiming "rich company is greedy."

BigNasty30021 votes

"Rich company is greedy" is a given. It's literally worked into our entire economic system.

Not every report is for inting, and not every inting report would be investigated. Because of these 2 factors, which you conveniently ignore, your number is absurdly high. Your entire number is based on accounts created, which is faulty as some accounts probably aren't played on at all, much less every day.

Are you being purposely dense? If someone gets a large number of inting reports, they could look into it. That is all I'm saying. There really is no excuse, except for not wanting to spend resources on it. If they can have employees watch Tyler1 streams to make sure he isn't playing, they can do this.

simsinfinity1 votes

Thanks for the personal attack. No purposeful density, and also not using accounts created. As I stated, I'm using Riots reported number of individuals playing the game every day. Here's a few links-

https://www.unrankedsmurfs.com/blog/players-2017

http://www.pcgamer.com/27-million-people-play-league-of-legends-every-day/

http://fortune.com/2016/09/14/league-of-legends-100-million/

I understand that you're saying you wish they would do it, but I'm genuinely curious- how many games do you think need a personal review? You say my numbers are really high, so what is the accurate amount?

BigNasty30021 votes

It isn't my job to figure it out, I'm only pointing out that the whole "it's impossible" mentality is false. It isn't logical, and it has no base. It's only purpose is to downplay the cry for Riot to fix a problem. I really don't understand what you get out of it.

Is everything a personal attack to you? I think you have played this game for too long and have let the whole "toxicity" logic seep into your personal life. This is a minor debate, 2 people on opposing sides. I will poke holes in your logic, as that is pretty standard for these types of conversations. Stop taking everything so personal.

simsinfinity1 votes

I agree with you that we are 2 people on opposing sides. I wouldn't call this a debate though. I hope Riot can come up with something that makes you happy! Good luck in the game, have fun!

Blakiepug2 votes

I agree, it is absurd that I see way more players banned for chat toxicity than I do players who intentionally feed and afk. Not the chat toxicity shouldn't be punishable, but afks and inting lead to this toxic behavior in many cases and should therefore be a bigger priority. I recently got a Twitch in my series to Gold 2 who literally just ran down mid as soon as the game started and never let up, causing us to have no shot at winning the game. I report him afterwards but don't get any notification that a punishment has been issued. I check his profile a couple of days later and there are a good 10 or so more games of him just inting with scores like 0/22/1 and not being punished for it at all. Yet anytime someone gets toxic and asks me a question like "are you mental?" I get an instant feedback notification almost immediately. The automated punishment system is clearly not adequate at picking out and punishing players who do intentionally ruin games for other players.

I should be seeing more bans for players who enter a game with the intention of ruining it for others than I am for players who simply get frustrated in the game. Sure both are bad, but at least those caught up in their own rage didn't enter the game thinking "I'm going to make everyone suffer for the next 30-40 minutes."

Dethflash3 votes

Im sorry to hear you had to experience that. Last season i got stuck in a 4 man premade troll group, they harrassed me literally all game cursing and spamming pings on me for 40 minutes, and in the end i got a 10 game chat ban just because i responded a couple of times to this constant verbal harassment and spam pings. Its a un fair system, which is why i typically just mute everyone now if any on my team seems toxic.

Lock On2 votes

Their system is a joke overall. Got a 24-game chat restriction despite other players making large efforts to instigate a shitty playing environment. Essentially, I'm apparently just as bad even though someone else committed the offense first. Would you use that kiddie anecdote in say, a fight? "It doesn't matter who started it" when it does; if I'm defending myself from an assailant, why the FUCK should I be charged. Riot Games is trying to play the world's largest video game baby sitter to grown ass men and women, it's ridiculous. May as well disable the chat for everyone; I don't see how restricting someone to 5 messages in like a span of 10-15 minutes is helpful; it needlessly punishes everyone else since I can't communicate certain discrepancies with pings alone. "Ults down, half hp so easy fight, or initiate" aren't options.

But yeah, fuck this game. I think most of us play simply because it's addicting, and don't enjoy it nearly as much as we did in the past, if you're a veteran player like myself (started mid season 3.) I've since heavily slowed down investing in this game because it simply isn't worth my dollar anymore.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Reporting someone opens the game up to review, which is why you only need one report. At that point, how much more manual does it get? Toxicity is done slightly more automatically, because it's easier to detect, but even that still goes under some manual view.

If I listened to the video correctly, he said you take people like Nunu, Tahm, and Anivia, and you troll/feed by getting your own teammates killed. Describe that in the report, and send it in.

Blåbæret9 votes

Trust me - the entire system is automated. Not a single Rito employee ever looks at anything.

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