Rumble's Ult CD got nerfed for "Clearing Waves" but yet Lux does that every 30 seconds

KushDid420·Feb 29, 2016·261 votes·10,274 views

EDIT: Before you call me an "Assassin player" Or that I don't know what a Lux is I'll let you know that the Only mid laners I play are Straight up mages like veigar, malzahar, and kassadin.

It's ridiculous how Lux can be left like this for so long and it's even worse that her ult is so forgiving that it can be used to clear minion waves.

Wasn't Rumble nerfed for the same reasons? Yet he was in an already bad state at the time and his ultimate was already one of the most unforgiving ults in the game.

Even Pobelter showed how bullshit Lux was in NALCS by using her ult to clear minion waves, its insane talon and ezreal had their ults nerfed as well and she wasn't touched.

218 Comments

ErdamonFeb 29, 201638 votes

Well yea, seeing how every single ult's cd is being nerfed because it's used as a waveclear way too often, there's no excuse for Lux to not get such a nerf.

Wow, for once "Apples and Oranges" thread got something right, have my upvote.

Remlap1223Feb 29, 201615 votes

A broken clock is right twice a day.

Unless you go by 24 hour time, and even then it's right once.

But Im NunuFeb 29, 201618 votes

Unless it's digital...and the LED is messed up...

DreadlocksFeb 29, 201627 votes

talon and ezreal had their ults nerfed as well and she wasn't touched.

^This, lets not forget maokai and lucian last season too.

CaptnJakSparrowFeb 29, 201623 votes

Oh come on.

Lux is a fair and balanced champion that ults you before the team fight, during the team fight, and after the team fight all the while shitting out 2k shields on her entire team cause reasons mang.

ZenithEinFeb 29, 201615 votes

Because they are different abilities in their design. Rumble's ult is meant to be used in a fashion similar to Fiddlesticks' ult, basically add it into a teamfight to increase the damage over time your team is outputting. Lux's ult is a burst of long range damage, used either as a part of her rotation or to pick up fleeing enemies at low health. Apples and oranges my friend.

Signed, A Dirty Annie Main

Voluug13Feb 29, 201612 votes

Its funny how Final Spark's cd decreases every time I see a QQ post here.

You want to nerf? OK, nerf it for minions, and then give it a cd refund for hitting or killing champions with it.

Something something differenciate something something good something something great something something

CarryFeb 29, 201696 votes

{quoted}

If you want to nerf my champion, then you have to buff her to compensate.

Sorry, but that's not how it works when you've been sitting on a 54% winrate for the better part of a year.

You'll take your nerfs with no compensation and you'll like them.

Signed, Humble Kassadin main

KrugLyfeFeb 29, 201631 votes

Exactly how i feel about my boy Sion

Itadaki SeiekiFeb 29, 201615 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, but that's not how it works when you've been sitting on a 54% winrate for the better part of a year.

You'll take your nerfs with no compensation and you'll like them.

Signed, Humble main

Remember when people complained about Veigar's instant E.

Then it got nerfed, and everyone basically sat there, forced to accept it.

If Lux gets nerfed, deal with it. I'm still not happy about E change, but I'm liking the Q one a lot more. >:T

Ariel the CruelMar 1, 20167 votes

Veigar No. Please. By all means. Give "compensation" for the nerfs.

KushDid420Feb 29, 201631 votes

{quoted}

Its funny how Final Spark's cd decreases every time I see a QQ post here.

You want to nerf? OK, nerf it for minions, and then give it a cd refund for hitting or killing champions with it.

Something something differenciate something something good something something great something something

No My point is that other champions recently have been getting their ultimate CDs nerfed and your waifu hasn't been touched in a while.

What's even more bullshit is the fact rumble got his ult nerfed because riot claimed it was used to clear minions but this blond laugh box still has her laser at a ridiculous CD and has been using it to clear waves even in LCS.

You expect compensation buffs for Lux? Because TLD with her already safe and disgusting burst wasn't enough right?

SociopathFriendFeb 29, 201613 votes

Disgusting burst

What is it with the boards and thinking Lux does a lot of damage? I'm pretty sure literally every poke-style mage does more than her- she does not have "disgusting burst" she has fully appropriate burst for the utility and cooldowns she has.

KushDid420Feb 29, 201615 votes

{quoted}

What is it with the boards and thinking Lux does a lot of damage? I'm pretty sure literally every poke-style mage does more than her- she does not have "disgusting burst" she has fully appropriate burst for the utility and cooldowns she has.

She is very oppressive right now because of the monstrosity that is TLD. She was strong already but Thunderlords just pushed her over the edge. She is very safe as well, 1 q and AA and TLD proc early game and you will be chunked.

AnidanFeb 29, 201622 votes

All I'm really learning this season is that the new masteries are stupid.

Dar RaksadaFeb 29, 20163 votes

{quoted}

She is very oppressive right now because of the monstrosity that is TLD. She was strong already but Thunderlords just pushed her over the edge. She is very safe as well, 1 q and AA and TLD proc early game and you will be chunked.

they should change her interaction with TLD then, just make her passive not count as an instance of damage so she'll need to use two spells+aa or two aas+spell like eveyrone else.

1MazaFeb 29, 201615 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dar Raksada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qBQ0sugi,comment-id=00040001000000000002,timestamp=2016-02-29T21:15:01.633+0000)

they should change her interaction with TLD then, just make her passive not count as an instance of damage so she'll need to use two spells+aa or two aas+spell like eveyrone else.

"like everyone else"

Fizz Anivia Evelynn Lucian MissFortune Morgana Nasus RekSai Renekton Rumble Shyvana Talon Velkoz Viktor Vladimir MonkeyKing Zac Zed

Just a small list of other champions that can proc TLD with only 1 or 2 abilities/autos.

My Waifu VanillaMar 1, 20166 votes

What? You are saying it ISN'T fair that Fizz can proc TLD with just Q if he has W active? What sort of blasphemy is this?!

DarkwindFeb 29, 201614 votes

Q? Why are you complaining about Q auto, you should be complaining about E auto (which is actually difficult to dodge/out trade and is reasonably safe).

Anyway, I can't really see her burst as being disgusting. There are SO many ways to deal with her burst; Maw, QSS, Zhonyas, even Abyssal or RoA will keep you from being 100-0ed for most of the game. What I CAN see as being too strong is her saftey; she IS extremely difficult to catch.

Also, even given her Ultimate, Lux's waveclear is actually pretty meh. 2 Es won't even necessarily clear the wave, which means you HAVE to use ult to clear it. This is judged on a different standard from Rumble, because Rumble is not an immobile mage. It's a significant portion of a mid laner's job description to be able to clear waves; champions that can't clear waves tend to do pretty poorly in mid (thus, why Kassadin and similar assassins have bad win rates except when they're overtuned).

For these reasons, I don't see a nerf to Lux's Ult CD as being the correct nerf for her. The two nerfs that I think would be the correct ones to go for would be:

Q: Light Binding Snare Duration 2 => 1.6/1.7/1.8/1.9/2.0

And/ Or:

E: Lucent Singularity: Slow : ~~20 / 24 / 28 / 32 / 36%~~ => 18 / 21 / 24 / 27 / 30%

Something like this. Lux is probably too safe since the change to her Q, which is likely the cause of these problems. She will still be the safest poke/catch mid laner, but not by quite the same margin. She'll also be the most defensive/ team oriented of the poke/catch mid laners due to her CC and shield. She won't have the best waveclear, and she won't have the best damage. Xerath and Ziggs both outclass her in both categories. Xerath can Q+W to clear waves; Lux always has to at least E E, and often has to E E Q auto. Ziggs of course can E Q Q, and his ult can clear even massive waves on its own (where Lux can only clear a normal sized wave with hers.

TL;DR I feel Lux's CC, not her waveclear, should be nerfed.

Reynard the ƒoxFeb 29, 201614 votes

This might literally be the most wrong thing I've ever read on these boards. You really should be proud of that.

SociopathFriendFeb 29, 201614 votes

Really? What was wrong about it? Let's see here... Lux } 1154 base + 225% AP for landing all 3 skillshots and popping the passive.

Against her long-range group Xerath 1010 base + 223% AP for landing just one part of his ult. 1610 and 310% AP for all three. Ziggs 1005 base + 203% AP for hitting just one mine and not being in the center of his ultimate. Center of the ult bumps it up to 1215 damage + 220% AP. And the mines only make it go higher. Velkoz 1605 base + 232.5% AP for landing only one W mind you. Huh, how about that, looks like all the other popular poke mages do outdamage Lux so long as you land the skillshots.

But here- let's check some of the close-range ones. Morgana Even for assuming only 3 seconds on her W she'll do 1140 base damage + 296% AP. Viktor Only assuming 3 ticks of his ult gives him 1137 base damage + 253% AP. 1055 + 230% AP with just one ult hit- not counting the percent health passive.

Hmm... Lux seems to do less damage that her other long-rage counterparts and less damage than the people built solely around damaging the enemy... almost like she doesn't have "disgusting burst". And if she does- literally all of the others would as well since they burst for more than she does.

But here- let's compare the signature "poke" ability of those champions- that's probably way in favor of Lux right? Lucent Singularity RANGE: 1100 COST: 70 / 85 / 100 / 115 / 130 COOLDOWN: 10 DAMAGE: 240 + 65% AP

Bouncing Bomb RANGE: 1400 COST: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 COOLDOWN: 6 / 5.5 / 5 / 4.5 / 4 DAMAGE: 255 + 65% AP

Arcanopulse RANGE: 1400 COST: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 COOLDOWN: 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 DAMAGE: 240 + 75% AP

Plasma Fission RANGE: 1050 then 1100 split COST: 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 COOLDOWN: 7 DAMAGE: 240 + 60% AP

Well gee- looks like Lux is towards the bottom again. She's 2nd to last for damage, 2nd to last for range, 2nd to last for cost, and dead-last for cooldowns.

I get that the Q buff was unwarranted, but Lux is just another flavor-of-the-month complaint champion, she's relatively fine. Her ult CD is low because her other spells are quite high.

Whut Thuh Feb 29, 201613 votes

problem is that there is so much less of a delay on her ult than ziggs and xeraths and morganas and all of them are more vulnrable to assasins. rengar jumping? w q auto e ult auto dead

Reynard the ƒoxFeb 29, 20168 votes

{quoted}

Really?

ye really

Johnaldinho1017Feb 29, 201611 votes

You do however forget to mention the fact Luxs e is damn near impossible to miss if you have a brain cell and while xerath brings more damage his utility is lower as his stun is hard to land in certain circumstances. At the end of the day I don't think lux is broken I think she's slightly more powerful then she should be. She's may do less damage but she does it from a very safe distance and has a shield as one of her abilities while as the others have more damage but 4 damage spells aside from viktor and Morgana

SociopathFriendMar 1, 20162 votes

You do however forget to mention the fact Luxs e is damn near impossible to miss

True, but that was a needed buff because Gragas had the same ability and he could do it. Surprisingly, nobody is bitching Gragas is OP (okay they are but not for that reason). The Q buff was too much and I will willingly admit that- nobody asked for it and people rarely gave a shit about Lux before that happened.

while xerath brings more damage his utility is lower

All of them bring more damage for less utility- that was my point. Someone mentioned "disgusting burst" and I proved that the burst is not in any way excessive for the group she is bracketed with. She does adequate damage to the enemies. She is safe- big deal- so are all of the other 3 long-range mages. They will all outdamage her if played correctly.

The only reason her ult gets a shorter CD is because her main damage abilities have longer cooldowns than her counterparts. But I'm glad the guy who isn't me who said the same thing more or less has upvotes when I have downvotes- good to know all the board members can read. (Seriously is glad the guy who said the same thing has upvotes)

MadraMar 1, 20166 votes

Damage output has to be balanced in the context of both safety and ease of use. Comparing damage numbers isn't helpful because the only two things that ultimately matter are "Is my target dead?" and "Am I still alive to use my spells again?".

SociopathFriendMar 1, 20163 votes

Damage output has to be balanced in the context of both safety and ease of use.

Except the safety claim is severely overstated for Lux. "She has a snare" Ziggs has a knock-away Xerath has a stun Vel'Koz has a knock-up

All 4 of the big-range champions have a way to stop being dived immediately when someone runs at them. Can Lux grab 2 people? Yes- that is a buff nobody asked for and I think should be reverted- it made no sense and came out of nowhere. But all of them have a slow, and a single harder CC- that is the "standard" for a their group. In fact, mages in general will have at least one harder CC and one slow.

Safety is the point of those champions- you are meant to blast from far away- taking away the safety takes away the point of the champions. Because you're safer- you're also more squishy and generally deal less damage than the champions who are designed to get close.

Comparing damage numbers isn't helpful because the only two things that ultimately matter are "Is my target dead?" and "Am I still alive to use my spells again?".

That sounds like every mage though- they're all designed to burst the enemy down and then hopefully use their spells again before the fight is over- that's the point of the class. The siege-mages are just meant to do it from a longer range. Also, comparing damage was entirely helpful because someone said she had "Disgusting burst" which I was not going to let slide when I know better. She does the least damage out of all 4 of her category of champion.

Spaceman5pffMar 1, 20164 votes

Isn't it amazing how Lux ultimate does less damage than Ziggs ult because she has a way to guarantee she hits it!?

It's almost like a BALANCING MECHANISM

Miku AppendFeb 29, 201611 votes

Lux is due for a range and scaling nerf.

Serika ZeroFeb 29, 20169 votes

{quoted}

It's ridiculous how Lux can be left like this for so long and it's even worse that her ult is so forgiving that it can be used to clear minion waves.

Wasn't Rumble nerfed for the same reasons? Yet he was in an already bad state at the time and his ultimate was already one of the most unforgiving ults in the game.

Even Pobelter showed how bullshit Lux was in NALCS by using her ult to clear minion waves, its insane talon and ezreal had their ults nerfed as well and she wasn't touched.

Rumble ultimates slows and deals DoT. Does Lux ult Slow and deal DoT? No, ok, thx. Both ultimates serve different purposes. And in addition to this. Lux has mana, Rumble does not. Lux is designed to be a mid lane mage. Mid lane mages need wave clear. Most of them got it on their basic skills (Lux laser, Ahri Q, Diana Q, Anivia R but her R has like 3 sec cooldown). While Lux's wave clear is her R. And not only her R, she must use ER to clear wave.

TurquoiseYoshiFeb 29, 20166 votes

item 3116 item 3151

Serika ZeroFeb 29, 20164 votes

Due to how gold inefficient those items are for her. I'd be glad if my enemy Lux will constantly buy that. Its like putting herself behind by 3k gold on purpose.

DarkRitualFeb 29, 20162 votes

Liandry's would be fine, but RCS is terrible on her. Basically buying it for the stats only, which you may as well have just gotten a RoA instead.

Serika ZeroFeb 29, 20163 votes

Even Liandry is not that good since she's not a constant damage dealer mage (cassio, malzahar, brand, azir). But that reply form that guy was done on purpose since I said Lux ult doesn't slow and deal dot. Which tbh, if Lux wants to cosplay rumble so hard and give me a 3k gold lead. I'm happy with it.

XonraMar 1, 20163 votes

Lux has a multi-person snare, a slow field, which makes hitting her ult super easy.

Rumble has to have some really good reflexes, NOT fuck up the positioning, have a dumb opponent just stand in it, have a small area someone is running to not to be able to avoid it, or have someone else already be engaged or have said person/people cc'd.

The point is, Rumble's ult was nerfed because of waveclear, and it has nothing to do with what it does in team fights or the slows or anything else. Lux has a ridiculously low cd ult that instantly clears minion waves and will be up by the time a fight starts, is SO much easier to land (because it isn't some drag and slide thing, just point and kill). The fact you are even arguing this shows how little you understanding about the champions or the subject of this whole thread.

The fact some people upvoted you actually worries me even more.

Serika ZeroMar 1, 20166 votes

You don't get it. Lux as a mid laner needs wave clear. Mages on mid lane NEED WAVE CLEAR. That's the reason you pick MAGES and not fucking Ezreal every single game. HER WAVE CLEAR IS HER ULTIMATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which has a fucking 30 seconds cooldown at max rank. That's EXPLOITABLE . That's **A WEAKNESS NOT A STRENGTH **

Also, Lux ult can't clear the entire minion wave unless the minion wave has no cannon and Lux has build item 3285 . Otherwise she needs her R and E to clear a wave. Without Echo, the melee minions will survive her ultimate. Lux E can't even CLEAR CASTER MINIONS, without building . That's how bad her wave clear is.

Do you even understand what I'm saying? Rumble could clear the entire wave in 1 ultimate. Lux CAN'T. Rumble ultimate acts as a CC zone as well. Lux doesn't, its instant and then its gone. The damage on Rumble ultimate if you stay in that area for the entire duration is HIGHER than Lux's R.

5050BSFeb 29, 20167 votes

Lux's Ult (and Passive) is just toxic

Dar RaksadaFeb 29, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Lux's Ult (and Passive) is just toxic

what's so toxic about them? Specifically about her passive?

DarkRitualFeb 29, 20163 votes

It's not toxic, but Thunderlords makes it really easy for her to make good trades. Even worse if she shields herself first. She can bully, pretty well from range, but when her Q is on cooldown she's very vulnerable early. Her ult could likely use some tweaking on the cooldown (Rumble and Ezreal's ults got it for that reason as well).

Dar RaksadaFeb 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

It's not toxic, but Thunderlords makes it really easy for her to make good trades. Even worse if she shields herself first. She can bully, pretty well from range, but when her Q is on cooldown she's very vulnerable early. Her ult could likely use some tweaking on the cooldown (Rumble and Ezreal's ults got it for that reason as well).

Which is why I said her passive shouldn't count for TLD, it'd tone down her earlygame bullying by quite a bit.

colesyFeb 29, 20165 votes

you do realise if she is shielding herself to trade against you with a thunderlords proc she's eating like 200 mana just from W + E right?

Miss LuxannaMar 1, 20167 votes

Actually, it's 27.5 seconds with the 5% CDR mastery. Lux Lux Lux

Meep ManFeb 29, 20166 votes

Rumble's ultimate was NOT nerfed for clearing waves. It was nerfed because it was extremely, and I mean EXTREMELY, team fight changing and had a very low cool down. Imagine if Amumu or Karthus' ultimate had an 80 second cool down (without CDR).

ErdamonFeb 29, 201621 votes

It was literally even noted in the patch notes that pros used it as a waveclear tool and that's the reason why it got nerfed.

And besides, the main diffrence between Rumble and any other champion that isn't Yasuo, is the fact that he doesn't benefit from cdr, therefore he's pretty much gonna sit at 100-90 second cd on his ult while Amumu and Karthus can get 40% cdr and have their ults more often than Rumble's anyway.

KushDid420Feb 29, 201610 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qBQ0sugi,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-02-29T18:19:54.667+0000)

Rumble's ultimate was NOT nerfed for clearing waves. It was nerfed because it was extremely, and I mean EXTREMELY, team fight changing and had a very low cool down. Imagine if Amumu or Karthus' ultimate had an 80 second cool down.

Except rumble has no way to land his ultimate without any help from his team mates because rumble has no hard CC in his kit.

Have you even played rumble? I agree it's a game changing ultimate but it's very easy to fuck up and very easy to walk out of without any setup from hard cc. And not to mention the whole reason of this thread, it's cool down is reasoably high even before nerfs. I believe rumble barely builds any CDR as well.

Lux can just spam her ultimate which is also game changing as well because of the ridiculous damage it already does and on top of that the range is very long . 1 snare and you are gone, try that with rumble, who's ult is a dot in a small area.

1MazaFeb 29, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Except rumble has no way to land his ultimate without any help from his team mates because rumble has no hard CC in his kit.

Have you even played rumble? I agree it's a game changing ultimate but it's very easy to fuck up and very easy to walk out of without any setup from hard cc. And not to mention the whole reason of this thread, it's cool down is reasoably high even before nerfs. I believe rumble barely builds any CDR as well.

Lux can just spam her ultimate which is also game changing as well because of the ridiculous damage it already does and on top of that the range is very long . 1 snare and you are gone, try that with rumble, who's ult is a dot in a small area.

If you can't land Rumble's ultimate that's not a balancing issue, that's a you issue. And I think you're grossly underestimating how much damage just one tick of that thing with Liandry's does to a squishy, and with its slow if you throw it down on somebody you're guarenteed at least 3 ticks if they're just trying to "walk out of it".. I agree Lux needs work, but trying to downplay how crazy strong Rumble's ult is doesn't prove anything but your own ignorance.

XonraMar 1, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Except rumble has no way to land his ultimate without any help from his team mates because rumble has no hard CC in his kit.

Have you even played rumble? I agree it's a game changing ultimate but it's very easy to fuck up and very easy to walk out of without any setup from hard cc. And not to mention the whole reason of this thread, it's cool down is reasoably high even before nerfs. I believe rumble barely builds any CDR as well.

Lux can just spam her ultimate which is also game changing as well because of the ridiculous damage it already does and on top of that the range is very long . 1 snare and you are gone, try that with rumble, who's ult is a dot in a small area.

Doesn't help a that some of the best cdr for AP items is attached to Mana regen, otherwise I'm sure he would try. I mean I know I would as Rumble, but can't exactly waste gold on item 3165 or item 3174 unlike most mages.

LatetotheRaceFeb 29, 20164 votes

After I saw that EZ got nerfed and they just left Lux alone, I was infuriated. This needs to change, and it's needed to do so for effectively forever now.

Zorae42Feb 29, 201611 votes

Ez's ult got buffed this season by the increased CD return on his Q and the fact that he can easily hit 40% CDR now. His ult had a lower CD (due to the interaction with his Q), higher dmg, and a global range before the nerf.

They made it harder for Mages to hit 40% CDR and buffed MR itemization... There's no reason to nerf her ult's CD

CosnirakMar 1, 20164 votes

her ult is so forgiving that it can be used to clear minion waves.

It's not very forgiving in terms of where you aim it (though yes the base skin's indicator sucks). It has a low cd and is a long line so it works well on minions still marching or minions gathered in an arc around a tower. Your title in particular is exaggerating when it comes to the cd, it's only 30 seconds at rank 3 with 40% cdr, so almost never, especially with current popular builds not reaching that much cdr. At lvl 6 most Lux ult cds are 72-80 seconds.

Wasn't Rumble nerfed for the same reasons? Yet he was in an already bad state at the time and his ultimate was already one of the most unforgiving ults in the game.

Not exactly. He was not in a bad state at the time. He'd just dominated pro play for months in fact. His ult can actually be extremely forgiving, it's not balanced around it doing the maximum possible damage all the time.

Even Pobelter showed how bullshit Lux was in NALCS by using her ult to clear minion waves, its insane talon and ezreal had their ults nerfed as well and she wasn't touched.

Repeatedly Pobelter has shown that she's not very good at much of anything EXCEPT clearing waves until pretty late in the game. On Lux he regularly has little to no impact in games outside of long range wave clear, or worse, dies once or twice early. The problem is how important that long range wave clear is right now.

Additionally, Lux is good at late game team fights centered around objectives like Baron, Dragon, and towers. Her W shield and the typical more clumped of state of enemies in these situations make her kit much better. Despite this he hasn't really done all that much of importance on her in most of the games he's played her. She's really good at playing safe early on when her team has lots of knowledge of where the enemies are and the current pro metagame is all about that. Her win rate in non pro games hasn't really changed much in a while though.

All that said... Could her ult use a nerf to its higher rank cooldown? Probably, yeah. It's always been a big part of her late game strength and why she's able to go things like 0/2/0 in lane and still be useful later and impact fights from afar. Once she gets 20% cdr from an item and lvl 11 gives her rank 2 on her ult it has a 48.75 to 52 second cd (depending on masteries), which lets her ult minion waves pretty often.

But please keep in mind that outside of pro games her win rate typically goes down as elo goes up. She does pretty poorly early on against skilled assassin players without amazing vision and a skilled jungler on her team. She has a few rough mage matchups as well.