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While not all reworks Riot have done are great, Pantheon is looking good and promising

Forhonor321··22 votes·11,899 views

I mean, they're still keeping his look very well intact to his old/original and his gameplay is also identical to what he has. He looks and feels a lot better now.

Yes, there have been some reworks that have gotten a lot of negative criticism or just haven't worked like they're suppose to now, such as Akali Galio Kayle but at the same time we get reworks that for the most part a fairly well done at keeping/expanding themes and just refreshing champions, likePoppy Sion Nunu

And I'm going to be honest: I never really liked Pantheon as he still is right now. He just feels so monotone, one trick like and only does one good, annoying thing during the game until he just becomes way too outscaled. He chucks spears that you can't avoid in any way nonstop or until he's out of mana, his E just wasn't that interesting, and his ult I only felt was good as a free teleport than a damaging demigod from the heavens. Not to mention that his current look just is outdated and stereotyped as this cartoon spartan.

BUT, as I said, he looks and feels a lot better now. He still has that feel of a spartan but has a unique feel to him with the designs of his weapons and scars he bears. His gameplay looks enhanced now with what I can presume to be more powerful spears but actually dodge-able now, near identical W but I think also gives some AS from what I could see, E now let's you move and presumably take less damage from the front and his Ult feels more impactful and interesting.

I don't know if everyone else feels similar, I've actually seen some ridiculous comments on how his classic look is ruined and some are NOW quitting the game because of that, but I for one am looking forward to this rework and might still play League a bit longer because of it (or keep playing until Riot just completely screws it somehow).

62 Comments

WoonStruck20 votes

Wait until everyone's screaming for nerfs in a month because of how overloaded they're gunna make him.

Timethief495 votes

{quoted}

Wait until everyone's screaming for nerfs in a month because of how overloaded they're gunna make him.

But we already see what he looks like, and its not 50 dashes.

WoonStruck8 votes

Seeing what he looks like doesn't include numbers, passives, and other things.

Timethief493 votes

{quoted}

Seeing what he looks like doesn't include numbers, passives, and other things.

Cant wait for his baker passive!

mzicio2 votes

It all depends on how that E shield works right now. He could potentially still be very annoying if it's not just damage reduction.

Aside from that, he looks surprisingly ok and I agree with that.

Timethief495 votes

{quoted}

It all depends on how that E shield works right now. He could potentially still be very annoying if it's not just damage reduction.

Aside from that, he looks surprisingly ok and I agree with that.

E- pantheon bakes a loaf of bread and uses it to protect himself from all incoming celiacs.

mzicio2 votes

The ultimate warrior, a living weapon, a walking legend.

proceeds to bake

mzicio1 votes

It appears that his shield gives him invulnerability from that angle.

Slythrin Umbreon1 votes

Even if it is Damage reduction, it could be incredibly awful Irelia

Lovelle3 votes

Can't wait for new and improved Panth to man-drop me with %max health damage.

TheBrothersGrymm1 votes

you know damn well his ult getting %hp, and prolly scales ad now

yung settings5 votes

they said that with morde and people complained 2 weeks in so i dunno

General Esdeath 1 votes

Because people don't know how to buy QSS or read abilities

The amount of people on release week saying "wtf I can't walk out of the circle?" was amazing

Or people who didn't know QSS worked, or people who didn't know how his passive worked, or people who didn't understand his E is a pull, something we already have on Swain/Darius. People need to just read and pay attention.

Sexy Jack Rabbit5 votes

It's quite funny you bring up Akali Kayle Galio as reworks that have recieved a lot of criticism as I feel they all share a similar problem; moving too far from the original champion.

Whilst their old kits had problems they also had a lot of positive aspects (Kayle in particular felt very satisfying in the past)

Nielarken3 votes

Old Kayle felt like an actual apc. The reason old Kayle was bad because she was a late game carry that that needed too many core items before she even became a champion. The only difference between the two Kayle is that old relied on items and new relies on level.

Zemasu1 votes

I like the Kayle rework, but it has a lot of problems (way too weak early, way too weak late)

On PBE they just patched a lot of changes to her, i hope that will help the gameplay. ranged attack switched to the first evolution and aoe on the second

CaptainAntiHeroz4 votes

I still want to see what his abilities actually do in context but he looks REALLY cool, but I know for sure theyre gonna nerf him like everything else because GRAND STARFALL has the word grand in it so it must be op

Forhonor3213 votes

Well from what I could tell from the BtS video, here's just a quick theory on what he can do:

Passive: Similar to before. Shows stacks like Jhin's ammo under health but, you know, adds up

Q: quick press is for a simple spear thrust, holding down charges it for a throw. Possibly stops first enemy hit or passes through minions for reduced damage.

W: Almost the exact same if not for giving attack speed after the stun?

E: Is a channeled ability. Does what it does now but for longer duration, larger area and at the end some form of knockback or additional stun (not sure).

R: Similarly the same but now you travel a distance based on where you're aiming from where' you're positioned (maybe could have something similar to Rumble ult/Viktor e?). Mostly used to teleport but also deal massive damage to enemies caught

CaptainAntiHeroz3 votes

{quoted}

Well from what I could tell from the BtS video, here's just a quick theory on what he can do:

Passive: Similar to before. Shows stacks like Jhin's ammo under health but, you know, adds up

Q: quick press is for a simple spear thrust, holding down charges it for a throw. Possibly stops first enemy hit or passes through minions for reduced damage.

W: Almost the exact same if not for giving attack speed after the stun?

E: Is a channeled ability. Does what it does now but for longer duration, larger area and at the end some form of knockback or additional stun (not sure).

R: Similarly the same but now you travel a distance based on where you're aiming from where' you're positioned (maybe could have something similar to Rumble ult/Viktor e?). Mostly used to teleport but also deal massive damage to enemies caught

his e looks like it has a mini braum shield

5050BS4 votes

E you can move too (but slowly)

XJ999999999999994 votes

and you then remember that riot is really good at making things look good at face value but it can be utter shit.

Forhonor3211 votes

true. but we'll have to see how he turns out on PBE now won't we

Hi im 122 votes

people pretending like poppy isn't absolute cancer because she hasn't been viable for over a year lmao

NelsieLisnen2 votes

Imo most of riots reworks have been succesful in one way or another.

Akali Aatrox Galio Urgot Yorick Lots of old mains didn't like their radically updated gameplay, but the champs are really strong, pro viable and got hella popular.

Irelia Nunu Sion Poppy Gangplank Taric The overall best. They retained a lot of their identity while bringing it up to date and becoming more relatable. All have above average viability.

Evelynn Mordekaiser Warwick Even if they are still not pro viable, their new identities where as good as you can get. Each of these reworks captured the feel of what the champs were supposed to be in the first place.

Swain Kayle Those two are having it rough. Each of these strayed away from the original identity of the champ, distancing a lot of mains, even though their concepts are cool. On top of that, they are still struggling to find a good place in the meta, both in soloQ and pro play.

Ezreal Morgana An OTP's wet dream. Their identity and gameplay remained essentially unchanged, but their lores got enriched and their aesthetics updated. Both very solid.

Forhonor3212 votes

Akali Aatrox Galio yes are strong in pro but that is kind of a problem, as then they're nerfed for that field but in addition to normal play as they're usually strong in that field as well. Akali is probably one of the biggest offenders right now with Aatrox a close second, as least from my perspective ( i don't watch LCS so I don't know how good they are anymore.

Irelia Thematically yes is better but let's not kid around, she was overloaded at her relaunch. Too much of eveything, still somewhat being nerfed, and just kind of problematic. The others are fine though.

Swain I think they're hitting a bit better with this last few updates to what he originally was, but Kayle I really don't understand what you mean. Before she was an melee top laner that scales to spamming her E ranged attacks late game. Her rework seems no different to what she was with the exception that she has one of the weakest laning phases I've seen for a champ and hardest scaling yet if she does well (not to mention the concept of a ARMORED Battle Angel. Still not over that). Maybe I'm missing something so you might have to enlighten me on that.

Ezreal is just a minor rework that needed some polishing as opposed to Sion or Mordekaiser who needed far bigger reworks to make them feel and work better. Morgana I actually don't really consider a rework since nothing was really changed with her abilities. If anything I just consider her getting a Visual Update and a buff on her ult.

NelsieLisnen1 votes

{quoted}

Akali Aatrox Galio yes are strong in pro but that is kind of a problem, as then they're nerfed for that field but in addition to normal play as they're usually strong in that field as well. Akali is probably one of the biggest offenders right now with Aatrox a close second, as least from my perspective ( i don't watch LCS so I don't know how good they are anymore.

Irelia Thematically yes is better but let's not kid around, she was overloaded at her relaunch. Too much of eveything, still somewhat being nerfed, and just kind of problematic. The others are fine though.

Swain I think they're hitting a bit better with this last few updates to what he originally was, but Kayle I really don't understand what you mean. Before she was an melee top laner that scales to spamming her E ranged attacks late game. Her rework seems no different to what she was with the exception that she has one of the weakest laning phases I've seen for a champ and hardest scaling yet if she does well (not to mention the concept of a ARMORED Battle Angel. Still not over that). Maybe I'm missing something so you might have to enlighten me on that.

Ezreal is just a minor rework that needed some polishing as opposed to Sion or Mordekaiser who needed far bigger reworks to make them feel and work better. Morgana I actually don't really consider a rework since nothing was really changed with her abilities. If anything I just consider her getting a Visual Update and a buff on her ult.

Akali Aatrox Galio So? Champions are tweaked all the time. Also there's nothing wrong with a champ being strong uness were talking needlessly strong. What's wrong is that riot doesn't buff most champs to be able to compete with them and diversify the meta.

Irelia Again, why is that bad? The concept was very well executed and what remained was balancing, which is needed for most new champs reworks, that's just the nature of this kind of endeavor. Now the needless parts of her kit have been cut off. She doesn't reduce magic damage anymore, she doesn't disarm and she doesn't have shield shred.

Swain He still can't stand noticeably strong in the meta though. Kayle Simple, the implementation of her visuals was not in tune with her thematic. She wasn't faceless anymore and she even sheds her armor, It's a cool idea in its own right but not on the same track as old Kayle. And yes, her current abysmal early game makes her pretty bad against teams that can play the game right.

Ezreal Yes, I know, that's why I state his rework barely counts as a GU since his W change left his gamepay unchanged. That's why I put him in the same tier as Morg, who remained unchanged in gameplay apart from her Ult giving her movespeed. However they both got more emphasized in their lore.

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

Imo most of riots reworks have been succesful in one way or another.

Akali Aatrox Galio Urgot Yorick Lots of old mains didn't like their radically updated gameplay, but the champs are really strong, pro viable and got hella popular.

Irelia Nunu Sion Poppy Gangplank Taric The overall best. They retained a lot of their identity while bringing it up to date and becoming more relatable. All have above average viability.

Evelynn Mordekaiser Warwick Even if they are still not pro viable, their new identities where as good as you can get. Each of these reworks captured the feel of what the champs were supposed to be in the first place.

Swain Kayle Those two are having it rough. Each of these strayed away from the original identity of the champ, distancing a lot of mains, even though their concepts are cool. On top of that, they are still struggling to find a good place in the meta, both in soloQ and pro play.

Ezreal Morgana An OTP's wet dream. Their identity and gameplay remained essentially unchanged, but their lores got enriched and their aesthetics updated. Both very solid.

Poppy retained pretty much none of her old identity. You never played old Poppy.

NelsieLisnen2 votes

{quoted}

Poppy retained pretty much none of her old identity. You never played old Poppy.

None? She retained her E and they primed her Tank and utility attributes over her diving-assassination although she can still dish out hefty damage as a tank. Her Q is still a flat and percent health burst although it became AOE and with less damage. She's still a yordle with a hammer and ponytails that works for Demacia, only now she has more interesting lore than just "I want revenge".

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

None? She retained her E and they primed her Tank and utility attributes over her diving-assassination although she can still dish out hefty damage as a tank. Her Q is still a flat and percent health burst although it became AOE and with less damage. She's still a yordle with a hammer and ponytails that works for Demacia, only now she has more interesting lore than just "I want revenge".

Her E and her W giving movement are just about all that's left, though that shit isn't important.

Tank and utility attributes lol? She was a hard-scaling carry who dove into teams and killed the carry, followed by everyone else. Now she's a fat tank whose damage falls off and excels largely in the early game.

Her old lore was boring, but her new lore and demeanor are putrid garbage meant to titillate the lowest common denominator with another dumb bubbly cute waifu yordle character. She's literally mentally disabled, but she's cute so obviously you like her, right?

Nah, new Poppy sucks ass.

NelsieLisnen1 votes

{quoted}

Her E and her W giving movement are just about all that's left, though that shit isn't important.

Tank and utility attributes lol? She was a hard-scaling carry who dove into teams and killed the carry, followed by everyone else. Now she's a fat tank whose damage falls off and excels largely in the early game.

Her old lore was boring, but her new lore and demeanor are putrid garbage meant to titillate the lowest common denominator with another dumb bubbly cute waifu yordle character. She's literally mentally disabled, but she's cute so obviously you like her, right?

Nah, new Poppy sucks ass.

Yes thank you, her old W was also similar. Passive armor and active movespeed minus the mobility block she has now. In saying that her new kit is completely different I think you are ignoring a lot of obvious elements. So she had no tank attributes? That's insincere. She had mitigation on her passive, armor on her W, and damage block on her ultimate. But those existed so that she could essentially assassinate others. Now they are meant for her to tank and deal moderate damage late game. Her Q is also similar remember? A flat damage and % health burst on a low cooldown.

"the lowest common denominator" "mentally disabled" Touching on mental health issues while also showing alarming signs of NPD is a tad too ironic. Also in modern societies, in case you missed the progress made in the last century, we strive to not discriminate or assign worth based on others' mental health. I won't be continuing this conversation, since I am the one conversing and you are here to, putting it mildly, relieve your internal deficiencies.

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

Yes thank you, her old W was also similar. Passive armor and active movespeed minus the mobility block she has now. In saying that her new kit is completely different I think you are ignoring a lot of obvious elements. So she had no tank attributes? That's insincere. She had mitigation on her passive, armor on her W, and damage block on her ultimate. But those existed so that she could essentially assassinate others. Now they are meant for her to tank and deal moderate damage late game. Her Q is also similar remember? A flat damage and % health burst on a low cooldown.

I see you're having some comprehension problems here, so let me make my point easier for you to understand:

Functionally, on a gameplay level, new Poppy plays very differently from old Poppy and her role in-game has been essentially completely reversed, from hard-scaling melee carry to early game utility tank.

Please, quote me saying she had "no tank attributes", plenty of melee carries have "tank attributes" to let them survive team fights, such as Master Yi's damage reduction on his W, Jax's resistance steroid on his R, and Tryndamere's death immunity through his R.

Do these attributes make them tanks?

Was old Poppy a tank? Yes or no question.

You're so caught up on what numbers registered in her kit without looking at how she actually played or functioned in-game, which is what actually dictates champion role.

"the lowest common denominator" "mentally disabled" Touching on mental health issues while also showing alarming signs of NPD is a tad too ironic. Also in modern societies, in case you missed the progress made in the last century, we strive to not discriminate or assign worth based on others' mental health. I won't be continuing this conversation, since I am the one conversing and you are here to, putting it mildly, relieve your internal deficiencies.

It's okay friend, I accept your concession even if you were not brave enough to give it openly.

NelsieLisnen1 votes

{quoted}

I see you're having some comprehension problems here, so let me make my point easier for you to understand:

Functionally, on a gameplay level, new Poppy plays very differently from old Poppy and her role in-game has been essentially completely reversed, from hard-scaling melee carry to early game utility tank.

Please, quote me saying she had "no tank attributes", plenty of melee carries have "tank attributes" to let them survive team fights, such as Master Yi's damage reduction on his W, Jax's resistance steroid on his R, and Tryndamere's death immunity through his R.

Do these attributes make them tanks?

Was old Poppy a tank? Yes or no question.

You're so caught up on what numbers registered in her kit without looking at how she actually played or functioned in-game, which is what actually dictates champion role.

It's okay friend, I accept your concession even if you were not brave enough to give it openly.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

<3

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

<3

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psychpedia/projection

=)

PopcornBunni1 votes

Evelynn was not supposed to be an AP assassin in the first place, and even her new lines allude to "tearing her victims apart" despite having not a single AD ratio in her kit.

NelsieLisnen1 votes

{quoted}

Evelynn was not supposed to be an AP assassin in the first place, and even her new lines allude to "tearing her victims apart" despite having not a single AD ratio in her kit.

I stated that the Evelynn VGU captured the feel of what her fantasy made her out to be . Maybe I'm basing this on a different lore version than you, but in the lore prior to her rework it reads that she is a demon donning the facade of a voluptuous chick that lures in men to their oblivion. It even states that all of her victims last briefly. And that's basically what she does now, she prowls unseen, casts a charm on you, and then stabs and dices you to death. Also, why do you have to be AD to "tear someone apart"? I'm pretty sure that a barrage of magical spikes would be as painful, if more, than a barrage of, uuuuuh, the opposite of magical spikes I guess.

Ionian Vulpix2 votes

He's going to be like Galio. Absurd in pro play to the point where he gets gutted for everyone. The point and click stun & the aoe on his ult are going to be hella strong.

Galiö1 votes

Atleast unlike Galio Pantheon is 85% like the old one while as Galio has a solid sub 10% likeliness.

WoonStruck1 votes

That 10% likeliness is the name. [sg-miss-fortune]

Galiö1 votes

A taunt, a skillshot, the jaw, having some sort of wings, and a jawline.

I would said two eyes but new Galio doesnt have that :')

TheBrothersGrymm2 votes

he will be so busted when he drops, they always do this, reworks are always busted, no dash but hella damage, he will get nerfed, just the way it goes, i mean riot is terrible, when they reworked warwick he had a bug where his q would do double damage, guess how long the bug was active for? 8 months after rework they finally found it o.o so yea reworks are just blahh

Smyrage1 votes

Kayle was always a lategame powerhouse, but right now she is basically "stall the game till you are lv16 to win". The problem is that her early is absurdly weak, which are compensated by ridiculous powerspikes lategame.

Sleeping Bat4 votes

{quoted}

compensated by ridiculous powerspikes lategame.

Nope, MasterYi Vayne Jinx are much stronger in late game, but do not have Kayle weaknesses in early game. For now Kayle is a trash tier champion.

Zemasu1 votes

On PBE right now https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAvwoijUYAA-ICu.png:large

Vlada Cut1 votes

Pantheon's rework is the best now.

I still hope the changes enhanced his late game tho.

  • Wonders if his E deals MAX HP damage

  • Wonders if his E can multi stack Conqueror

Ho ho imagine being able to shred tanks.

General Esdeath 1 votes

I'm 99% sure it can. Riven's Q has 3 casts and each can add a stack. Each shot from Urgot's W does too.

WoonStruck2 votes

Riven has 3 separate casts.

Urgot's W is auto-attacks.

Pantheon's E is a single cast with no auto attacks involved.

It will be a single stack unless there's a bug or Riot wants to be inconsistent.

Vlada Cut1 votes

[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qAz9pEeU,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2019-07-30T22:43:15.523+0000)

I'm 99% sure it can. Riven's Q has 3 casts and each can add a stack. Each shot from Urgot's W does too.

Good news! They recommended Conqueror as his recommended keystone, so it probably does stack E on every spear shot. Also tje base damage is based on 100% of yourntotal AD while empowered E deals bonus damage and has almost 100 AD scaling. On top pf that, he does scale to late game despite his ultimate having AP scaling only(his passive enhancing his Q W E abilities primarilly). This rework was a sucess in adressing ALL of his problems, primarily being his late game.

Raiyza1 votes

I'm going to call it now. He will be absolutely broken with Conqueror.

WoonStruck1 votes

His E is only going to add a single stack. Probably won't be too bad unless the champ itself is a problem.

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, they're still keeping his look very well intact to his old/original and his gameplay is also identical to what he has. He looks and feels a lot better now.

Yes, there have been some reworks that have gotten a lot of negative criticism or just haven't worked like they're suppose to now, such as Akali Galio Kayle but at the same time we get reworks that for the most part a fairly well done at keeping/expanding themes and just refreshing champions, likePoppy Sion Nunu

And I'm going to be honest: I never really liked Pantheon as he still is right now. He just feels so monotone, one trick like and only does one good, annoying thing during the game until he just becomes way too outscaled. He chucks spears that you can't avoid in any way nonstop or until he's out of mana, his E just wasn't that interesting, and his ult I only felt was good as a free teleport than a damaging demigod from the heavens. Not to mention that his current look just is outdated and stereotyped as this cartoon spartan.

BUT, as I said, he looks and feels a lot better now. He still has that feel of a spartan but has a unique feel to him with the designs of his weapons and scars he bears. His gameplay looks enhanced now with what I can presume to be more powerful spears but actually dodge-able now, near identical W but I think also gives some AS from what I could see, E now let's you move and presumably take less damage from the front and his Ult feels more impactful and interesting.

I don't know if everyone else feels similar, I've actually seen some ridiculous comments on how his classic look is ruined and some are NOW quitting the game because of that, but I for one am looking forward to this rework and might still play League a bit longer because of it (or keep playing until Riot just completely screws it somehow).

Poppy's rework objectively blows chunks though.

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