So GP gets nerfed next patch but Vayne, Irelia, etc arent?

It's fine to balance for them. But don't do it and then say you don't. I think that was Sickxapples point.

Amen!

Seriously, if this game were balanced around low elo... shudders

Then why did you need to buff Lee Sin with the explanation that he s balanced on high elo but too weak for the average player when you say that you want the game to be balanced and fair at high level play?

The only problem I have with the way that the game is balanced is lets say someone on your team goes against a hyper carry per say.. So they gave that carry some kills.. but now they snow ball so hard (because that's what they do) That you can't stop them no matter how you attempt to shut them down. Which then keeps low elo players from getting to a higher elo. Like I said I know that they're called hyper carries for a reason, but not all of them have weak early games to abuse them so they sail to that hyper carry status and there's nothing you can do because someone fed them faster than you could ever hope to get fed. May I have an honest opinion? Whenever I queve up for ranked.. if i'm first pick I give it up to someone who says that they can only play X role.. so i give them X role and they almost always end up feeding like hell.. Do I just keep my role that I want if i'm first pick? I like being nice but it doesn't seem to work that way.. Sorry that I got way off topic by the way. Also thank you for your time!

What about the data found on champion.gg, where it also gives info on winrate depending on how many games the player has on record with the champion, etc. Can we estimate a champions power like the live balance team does with that?

Going by champion.gg, morde has an average winrate of 70% for players who have played 5-15 games with him. and beyond that he falls off-but that's mainly because of the patch being extremely recent and the graph takes data from previous patches as well. Wouldn't that mean Morde is actually far too strong at the moment?

1. Really? Vayne has a play rate in the 30% range and sits comfortably above 50% win rate. That's not "a skilled and experienced player of that champ." In fact, if you just pick up Vayne for the first time, you can expect to have a higher than 50% win rate.

2. I got nothing. GP is definitely too strong, sitting above 60% win rate for people who have played a lot of games with him.

The issue is, all we have are Champion.gg, op.gg, and lolking to go by. Maybe a good idea, though time consuming, would be a short blog write up, that just explains the thinking behind balance adjustments, what you guys look at and for, and where it is that you feel things should fall if they are to be considered reasonable. Maybe show us some of the data you are using to make these decisions.

To be honest though, this one's hard for me to just accept that they have a good reason. I've wrecked as GP, I've been wrecked as GP, I've been wrecked by GP, and one of the things I've felt about him is that it always feels good. I don't feel like I just outstated someone, or got outstated (except for a match vs Kayle, but Kayle is nuts). Playing him feels like play vs outplay. Like there's something I could have done to make that go better in my favor or that they should have done to respond better.

And it's really hard to see that there's something we're missing in our statistics aggregation sites, mainly because when I look at GP in Master's Division, and he's got a 58.65% winrate with 104 games played, and he's 30th on the winrate list. Which is close to what you were saying, yet he's 30th overall. With gameplay like his, and the various winrates of multple champions, and the way it feels playing vs some champions, and rioter's own comments, threads like this and uncertainty in the thought process is obviously going to pop up. Eve #18 on winrate, 106 games played at 63.21% winrate, and I've heard very little QQ about her recently. People don't feel bad playing against her as much anymore. Leblanc #13 at 65.22% with 69 games played. People hate Leblanc, and it's a common theme that it's not terribly fun to play against her.

This is all we've got to go on, we don't get to know what you use to balance, and what metrics you use when tuning. And when you say that they're averages so it's hard to understand on our end, it gets even more confusing as to what information you guys go by if not for winrates and performance stat averages.

Can you see how people get confused an frustrated? With the information we have, it really does look, and has for a while, that new options become strong, while favored strong options are still strong, yet no longer the primary or only option. The new thing gets toned down and the favored champ remains advantaged. Approaches to strong champions and items are inconsistent, and often consistently inconsistent in the sense that if one champ or type of item is strong, not even out of spec that a predictable response will be made.

S4 Elise nerfed super hard while a wait and see approach was taken with Lee sin, Lee dominates the jungle until S5 jungle changes. S5 jungle and cinderhulk makes tanky junglers strong, tanky junglers, gromp, or cinderhulk itself see nerfs in every patch. Runeglaive enters, and powerful carry assassins become viable in jungle, runglaive and champ stats both nerfed, even though the champs weren't out of wack before item introduction. Devourer gets changed and ends up coming out with more base gold value in combat stats than warrior, with silly scaling mechanics, and instead of nerfing it like Cinderhulk/runeglaive, a wait and see approach is taken.

I fully believe that the balance team believes these are the correct decisions. I don't go so far as to think they have pet champs that they like, rather that they feel certain gameplay is healthier, and tend to try to promote that. However they communicate poorly, and often seem to make balance adjustments to protect players from having to adapt or learn, and it holds back the growth of the game. Metas end up super closed and predictable with certain champs seeing a lot of play and others being relegated to people who will make it work no matter how inefficient it is, all because they don't like certain types of mechanics or play patterns.

55 % winrate since the begining of the seasons ; with a 20% pickrate , NO PROBLEM BOYZ

Could someone answer me that question: What exactly makes Vayne or Irelia not need a nerf as much as GP? GP is a melee champ that has to rely on a very delayed "skillshot" that is easily dodged or even destroyed if youre faster than him to do any reasonable damage. High risk, high reward if played correctly, thats how it should be. Meanwhile, as long as Vayne is good and she didnt die 5 times by min 15, she will 1v2 pretty much any bot lane by the time she gets blade. Apart from that she probably is the strongest late game champ in the game. And we all know Irelia is basically 0 risk, extremely high reward...

You're drinking bear? How does that work, exactly?

You get the MS boost from parleying barrels too.

The E damage buff? The one that they said was a bug like a thousand times? XD

Silence duration reduced, no more tenacity from w, speed bonus duration reduced. It makes him more vulnerable against mobile/cc enemies.