Ranked Reverts actually created an Elo hell.

Illabethe··6 votes·2,614 views

I am not kidding. This account, which I play exclusively "Fill" was climbing under Fill in the Positional Ranked system. I had an 80% Mid Win rate, 68% Support Win rate, 63% Jungle Win rate, but suffered as Top/Bot (I suck at Bot lane, and Top has too little agency over the entire game; I'd win lane, but lose game because of low elo bot lane snowballs)

I was gaining about 10-15% more LP than I was losing from a loss, on average.

I have played 4 games since the Ranked was put back yesterday:

9 LP Win 10 LP Win 10 LP Win -23 LP Loss! 10 LP Win In other words, the Ranked revert for a Fill player (may apply to others) has literally created an elo hell, where every loss negates 2 1/2 wins. You cannot maintain winning 2 1/2 games more than you lose. Even good players struggle with that sort of ratio. 10 LP is also twice as many games to climb per tier as it should be.

I don't know what other people are getting. But this is crazy.

Edit: Here's the response I got from Support:

Hi there! The reason you LP is lowered is actually because your highest rank was gaurenteed. Since every player got their highest rank their LP would drop because they may have had other ranks that were lower. Lower ranks added into one will cause a decrease in MMR which results in a decrease of MMR, especially for players whose other ranks were significantly lower than their highest.

Luckily within a few weeks your MMR should even out as you play more games.

It's a bit tricky to explain but in short: since every player was gaurenteed their highest role their MMR was shifted and LP gains lowered to compensate for the high rank allotted.

As a Hextechnician I have no control over Riot's ranked system. If you would like to express your concerns to a Rioter I am more than happy to reroute you. I cant justify their choices I'm only able to tell you what they announce.

In other words, my LP Win/Loss Deficit has NOTHING to do with the fact that I had a win or loss streak; It has to do with the fact that when I started this account this year, it dropped all roles to Bronze II. As I played "Fill," about 26% of my games were Support, 16% Mid, 23% Jungle, 22% Bot and 13% Top

My Mid/Jung/Support were solid, and in high frequency. My Top got troll bot laners a lot who threw games quickly. I suck at adc.

So basically what they are telling me: I had a Top in Silver IV promos. I had an adc in Bronze I promos.

I was given my top EARNED rank of Silver II, but given an MMR somewhere where the Top/Mid scores mattered more than my Main roles.

So what this response boils down to: Either I get ahold of a rioter and they MAYBE do something, since it is their system that created this problem, Or: I win 60-70%, but still fall back down to Silver IV or III, just to get my MMR fixed, and then climb after wasting 300 more games.

36 Comments

mack91125 votes

You already made a post about this. Your large loss streak is the cause you will have to play to correct it we all have been there

Pandemic Punch1 votes

{quoted}

You already made a post about this. Your large loss streak is the cause you will have to play to correct it we all have been there

Well check my latest win streak and win rate. I went from gaining 18 and losing 16 to winning 14 and losing 20. I'm still only gaining 14 on my current streak

mack91122 votes

Right now I gain 16 on win and lose 12 I loss. If you are losing more in losses than in wins then you have a lose streak recently that is causIng the system to try and put you in lower brackets.

Pandemic Punch1 votes

{quoted}

Right now I gain 16 on win and lose 12 I loss. If you are losing more in losses than in wins then you have a lose streak recently that is causIng the system to try and put you in lower brackets.

https://na.op.gg/summoner/champions/userName=Pandemic%20Punch

No. I haven't been on a loss streak since I was gaining 18 and losing 16. The LP gains and losses just changed right when they changed ranked back.

17-6 in the last 7 days. 15-3 in my last 18. Current 6 game win streak. Ranked changed less than 7 days ago.... And 7 days ago I was getting 18 LP per win and losing 16 per loss.

Illabethe1 votes

That is NOT how it's working right now. The Consolidated Ranked from what I can tell, is treating "Fill" players very differently than it treats Single role accounts.

I DO have 2 roles that I suffer in: Top and ADC.

However; I'm on a 4 out of 5 winning streak and not a single time has the LP gain increased. For some reason, my 2 bad roles are outweighing my aggregate, and not improving.

I know you're citing how it USED to work; if you went on a 20 game loss streak, your MMR plummeted. However, it plummeted to ratios like 14/16. NEVER 10/23. And I have no such 20 game loss streak, and my account is positive. I have a 4 and a 5 loss streak interrupted by wins.

5050BS1 votes

Its Riot copypasta Code. Seeing how Reksai's Ult changes were handled its like they have first Year Interns as devs

mack91121 votes

Fill doesnt have anything to do with it simply took your highest rank and made that your rank. If the highest rank position happened to have a pretty bad mmr tied to it then that is that you are experiencing and it will take many games to get out of it.

I remember way back in the day I got stuck in gold 5 and had to grind like 40 games to recover my mmr but in the process I became a way better player.

Illabethe2 votes

Look at the damn Support reply before trying to respond - again - with incorrect information.

mack91121 votes

So what where your five ranks ? I was placed in all 5 roles at gold 4 gold 3 gold 2 gold 2 and gold 1 . After the combine I have a lp gain of 16 and a loss of 12

Peel for my ADC4 votes

plz stop build item 3070 on supports , so gold inefficient thanks

Illabethe2 votes

Does it look like I have a gold inefficiency problem on any of the champions I do it on? Oh right...... I generally outgold my Adc and at least 2 other teammates per game..... and finish item 3040 at about 14:00. And carry 8/4/17's...... with the second -third most damage in the game, and most heals by far......

I also have an enourmous win rate with it.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/KYZvDQ8.png[/img]

Peel for my ADC1 votes

{quoted}

Does it look like I have a gold inefficiency problem on any of the champions I do it on? Oh right...... I generally outgold my Adc and at least 2 other teammates per game..... and finish item 3040 at about 14:00. And carry 8/4/17's...... with the second -third most damage in the game, and most heals by far......

I also have an enourmous win rate with it.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/KYZvDQ8.png[/img]

These stats are irrelivent if you're losing games . Keep thinking you're always right and figure out what you're doing wrong if you really want to improve . The tier rush is garbage and provides no utility. You getting fed as an enchanter support is much less beneficial than buffing your carries and having defensive support items .

Illabethe1 votes

I am not losing games? My Nami is 70%.......

Peel for my ADC2 votes

{quoted}

I am not losing games? My Nami is 70%.......

Please , stop lying to yourself 300 games in silver 3 with high bronze MMR. None of your runes are optimal or correct , your winrate on nami is infact not 70% its 58% . Like dude , just stop telling yourself that you're good at this game and focus on what you're doing wrong if you actually want to improve your rank . Tear rush on nami is garbage , you don't build any utility items , literally all the runes you run on your other champions arn't the optimal choices . you build random items every game , you don't upgrade your trinket , you buy 2 pinks a game the list goes on and on . And this is just on paper can only imagine what ingame looks like

Illabethe1 votes

I lost 2 games since I wrote this. Sue me. I also dominated those games, even though I had trolls. My builds are optimal, and not random. They vary based on the team I am versus.

What do you call item 3504 item 3174 item 3110 oh right....... utility.......

My Runes vary based on the team I am versus as well. There are games where Aftershock Morgana does far more than Dark Harvest and other games where Morgana needs Manaflow band for Mana sustain...... it VARIES.

I know you like to talk down to people being Plat 3 and all, but I'm actually a higher rank than you, and although you're a good active item redemption spammer, it is NOT the best Nami build nor does it display the most talent. I can do everything you can do, while also solo killing one of the opposing champions. I can land 5 man Q's, and solo duel champs like Akali/Zed.

You're a good support. But you are not an all rounder.

P.S. I do upgrade my trinket when needed. However, I sometimes prefer to just have 5 wards, because I have a Duskblade composition team, and sometimes I stay on the map long enough to use 4-5 wards.

I don't buy 6-7 Pink wards, because honestly low elo doesn't allow it. If you have a snowballing smurf somewhere on the other team, you don't have the extra time/gold to buy items not meant for survivability. Entire maps stay warded down here, so placing extra pink wards generally results in just giving someone 30G. I can path fine. I see everyone. My team won't even use the Pink wards correctly.

My wards almost NEVER die, is also part of the reason. My second ward purchase is usually up the entire game.

Peel for my ADC2 votes

LoL you are clueless . item 3504 item 3174 item 3110 are all utility btw . LOL TELL ME HOW TO LAND A 5 MAN NAMI Q PLEASE AHHAHAAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHH . 5 champions couldn't even fit in her Q . You are actually delusional . higher rank than me ? fake news, 300 games in the same elo . but hey you know everything , i'm sure you're so much mechanically better too lol

Illabethe1 votes
  1. Yes. They can. But it requires them to be all in on a similar target, and usually be the same kind of damage dealer. 3-4 is more common.

  2. Do you even know how "Fill" worked in Season 9? That's 300 games between 5 roles..... 40 of which were Provisional. The account started at "Bronze III." Prior to Provisionals. Provisionals placed each role about Bronze I/Silver IV, depending if I won 7 or 8.

Every time Splash got you to 100 LP, it didn't put you in a promotion. You had to win ANOTHER game to get there in each role. So, on average, it takes 6 games per role of straight wins to promo.

That means..... to get to Silver II from B I, I on minimum had to win 90 games with no losses in the middle games, plus 2 wins per Promotion per role, 3 at BI = SIlver IV.

That's 103 Wins in a row just needed to get there with no losses. In my first 150 games I had a 70% win rate, and only climbed from BI to Silver IV/III.

I don't have a good screen capture at the 150 game mark, but I do have this:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/s63jwJ9.png[/img]

That's at about 50.

After I reached 150 games I started getting whole teams of Inters/Challenger Smurfs more and got ADC way too often.

But no. Fill is NOTHING like trying to climb on a single role. If I had played a single role Mid or Support, I would have reached Plat in those first 150 games.

Butterwood3 votes

I'm a fill player and I wasn't getting that yesterday - I would absolutely send in a ticket. You shouldn't be getting ratios like that with a WR over 50% on the season.

Illabethe1 votes

Not only that:

In Fill, I went through:

5 Provisional Placements 3 Top Position Promotions 5 Mid Position Promotions 6 Jungle Position Promotions 8 Support Position Promotions.

My first 150 games had a 70% Win rate.

Then I began getting all the autofill/inters/unranked/Twitch.Tv Boosters/Challenger Smurfs/People who generally just F up honest games, which was to "correct" that 70% and make the climb slower.

But that's already happened. And I'm still getting those players in addition to these LP ratios.

It's not like I was treading water in Fill. I was climbing all 5 ranks. Bot/Top slower than anywhere else, but I had climbed a full Tier from Placements. If I was playing a Single role, I would have easily been almost Plat by now. Instead, Silver II. My first 40 Morgana games (Pre-Rework) had an average 10.42 KDA

It's just like ..... Wow.....

Quáx2 votes

HEY LOOK SOMEONE'S COMPLAINING. People wanted the revert, and now no ones happy because....why? When is it ever enough for this damn community they can't make everyone happy. There's 80 million people that play this game like when is it enough to realize that Riot is trying. They reverted the ranked system, and everyone wanted that. BUT OH WAIT WE DONT LIKE IT BECAUSE WE ENJOY BITCHING. So sick of this fucking community.

Illabethe3 votes

Major difference between abstract opinions over the workload/performance of positional ranking, and getting a revert that actually gives you 40% as much LP as Negative LP for a loss.

If Mack9112 is right about the reason being recent loss streaks, 10 LP gains would infer that I literally am some 60-70 losses in the hole as far as LP gain goes..... meaning.... just to get out of this mess, I have to:

  1. maintain an 80 % win rate for about 300 more games, even though the account is 52%

  2. Risk major demotions into worse players to do so, as an almost certainty, because maintaining an 80% in Silver is just a joke with the environment we're talking about.

  3. Riot is trying? Lmfao. They used to balance based on math and science and strong statistical evidence and studies. Most of what they've done over the past year looks more like someone got hired on as a consultant, based off some inflated/bloated resume, claiming they could do the job, and then "just winged it."

A perfect Example is Pyke; Pyke holds the record for the quickest Rework of any champion Riot has released; It took them 6 months to rework him, because they didn't like a playstyle.

They also recently openly admitted that Yasuo was buffed due to competitive play in Season 8, but they were reverting him because tournament play was over.


I understand when a community inflates a problem or tries to create a problem where there is none.

But this is Riot creating a problem, burying players in a mire of LP loss the player didn't create, and you arguing the players who are affected just "sucking it up and enjoying it."

"Fill" was a product Riot created under one premise of how to climb. Now they've taken that premise away, and applied an entirely different system of calculations to the performance under that old premise.

Quáx1 votes

Alright if you don't enjoy this then why play? Get out and play something else lmao.

Illabethe2 votes

I enjoy the game. I don't enjoy treading water or Sinking when I didn't do anything to deserve it.

AzZiree1 votes

If it helps, I'm happy about it. :)

KlydeFrog1 votes

I'm trying to understand why people hated the position ranks. Easier to climb . To me position was better.

5050BS2 votes

You just showcased the reason why Rank ELO system is BROKEN.

If the system takes away more then it gives there is no reason to play the game.

Riot needs to completely scrap the system and rebuild it. They do it to Champions they do it to the jungle they need to do it to the ELO system.

Iota Theta1 votes

I’m wondering..it’s all back to one rank. You said before, you’re worst roles were top and ADC (i think they were listed bronze at one point). I wonder if the difference between the MMR of those two and the MMR of your other roles is great enough that the system is trying to adjust you to equalize or average your rank or MMR across all 5 roles.

I have no basis for this, just a curious thing of note, since you and a few others are experiencing this, yet others aren’t.

Illabethe1 votes

It's basically saying that maybe I have a Silver IV MMR while positioning me at Silver II as my official rank. In other words, It's trying to demote me because Riot have me the rank my Support/Mid Had, but is calculating the Bronze almost Silver IV off roles into it.

If you just 1 tricked 1 role, the other roles didn't get calculated into your MMR. But as a Fill player, all mine did. So basically, right now, I'm getting punished for playing fill by being forced to win at a 80% win rate to even sustain a rank that I am, out of no fault except trying to use the new splash system.

(I can get close to that 80% I need to sustain, but I'm willing to bet I drop 1-2 before I accomplish a reset, and it will take 300 games (guessing) just to rectify the gain, taking up about 1/3 of my entire season just treading water to get that 10 LP up to 17-20. In other words, while a 1 trick who got an 80% win rate would go straight up to Plat/Diamond in all those games, I'm going to be lucky just to get back to where I am, or slightly higher in Gold...... just because I played Fill)

Illabethe1 votes

I updated the thread with some Riot Support feedback

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

I updated the thread with some Riot Support feedback

So apparently my theory was accurate. However the issue will be, I have a feeling they won’t touch MMR, or else they would have to do it for everyone. Since you had a support rank of Silver 2 and then some lower ranks for other roles, your actual MMR will essentially be an average of those, weighted slightly, but still somewhere in between. Like I said, I doubt they’ll correct things just for you, and they seem to have a pretty sound reason for what they did, so you’ll likely have to put in the work to try and adjust your MMR (i highly doubt it'll take 300 games), or call it until the Season shifts.

Illabethe1 votes

The range of ranks was not that significant, and if I had one tricked it I would have been in Plat IV or greater with only the one role counting towards MMR. In other words, This directly only affects Fill players.

10 LP gains literally take 300+ games to correct. I've never seen that in 7 years. EVER.

The lowest I've ever seen was when I lost 20 games as the reworked Evelynn to late October paid boosters smurfing my games. That got me to 14 LP gains/17 LP losses. Nothing like 10/23.

As I said, I've won 4/5 since then. the 10 hasn't BUDGED.

Rock MD1 votes

I agree the MMRs are really fucked right now maybe you should stop smurfing and making low elo games even more unbalanced :)

Illabethe1 votes

Tell that to the smurfs who are tryhards and have to win by pwning with meta champs in meta roles.

I just added 2 Diamonds, a III and a V yesterday, and 3 Plats, I/III and III.

Only the Plat I was playing champs in off roles on off builds. The others were just streaming/1v5ing on meta assassins/hypercarries.

Rock MD1 votes

{quoted}

Tell that to the smurfs who are tryhards and have to win by pwning with meta champs in meta roles.

I just added 2 Diamonds, a III and a V yesterday, and 3 Plats, I/III and III.

Only the Plat I was playing champs in off roles on off builds. The others were just streaming/1v5ing on meta assassins/hypercarries.

You can't control their actions, but you can control the destruction you're causing :)

Illabethe1 votes

What destruction? I play off meta, and have fun with it. I don't play to all out win.

Ofc...... you wouldn't know by looking at

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2999580592/243999882?tab=overview

You know how I got my 1 death? I started Blue instead of Red, because I knew Voli was vs a Jax and needed to get to lane. Kha invaded my red and was killing it when I arrived. He managed to kill it before I Q'd him, which meant he was now Isolated, and got his damage bonus.

He tried invading me rest of game and just got smashed lol. Kills he got were almost entirely from laners being caught out at 20% HP.

Meanwhile I 100-0 everyone :S.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Yeppers. It was easier to climb with the position ranks . I really dont know why people hated it.

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