Meddler: You want to nerf Morgana? Here's How.

Illabethe·Mar 13, 2019·29 votes·15,142 views

Saw the W notes on PBE. No. Just No.

I understand you think she has too much agency after your buffs. This is not the right fix. if anything, W needs a buff in damage, not reduction, to maintain mage status, compared to the rest of the meta.

Here's how you bring her down:

**1) Revert the Season 7 end buff to her Binding (Q) Cooldown by 2 seconds. **

If it's less spammable, she's less reliable, and less frequent at getting someone stuck on her pool. It also reduces the frequency of her W cooldown reduction.

2) Reduce Black Shield's Magic damage absorbed per tier by 10 to 60 (60/120/180/240/300)

BUT: Raise W to 18% AP Scaling.

106 Comments

TobykachuMar 13, 201918 votes

I think you're pushing too hard for Morgana to be a midlaner and taking away significant parts of her power as a support to open up room for a niche playstyle is going to hurt Morgana in the long run as most mid lane players don't particularly enjoy playing as or against her.

IllabetheMar 13, 20198 votes

Be careful when trying to speak for others. Morgana was LOVED as a mid laner by those who played her there. I'm sure a lot will speak up in this thread. I personally Mid/Jung/Top/Support her and have over 3.4 Million Mastery between accounts.
Q is rarely a support tool. Minions are in the way most of the entire lane, which is why support feels compelled to get Mobis on her. 2 seconds isn't going to hurt it as a support tool for anything but being able to miss and forgive. If anything, a damaging W is more of a support tool, because it zones where they walk, is easier to hit.
10 detracted shield absorption from her E isn't going to break her support role. It still blocks the CC, some damage, and the AP scaling on it is still quite large. If anything, right now, most Morg supports feel forced to max it, because the rest of her kit is unreliable in bot lane.

TobykachuMar 13, 20196 votes

Of course the people who played her enjoyed playing her to some capacity, I never claimed otherwise, that would be like saying someone who plays basketball probably enjoys playing basketball. I'm saying that mid laners in general are not thrilled about Morgana being a mid laner as she is relatively boring to play and essentially becomes a waveclear machine in most games. press w on the minion wave. See if you can fish for a Q. Walk away if not. Repeat
Almost all supports go mobis to help with warding and roaming and Morgana is no exception. Of course it helps her position better to land bindings, but generally not why supports go for mobis. 2 seconds isn't a huge increase but it would be a notable addition for the better Morgana players who are able to consistently land their Q's.
Again, it's not a massive nerf, but it's still unnecessarily taking power away from her supportive power to push her into, at best, a niche role. A lot of Morgana's max E first because a lot of the time the CC immunity is why you picked Morgana in the first place.

IllabetheMar 13, 20193 votes

You've been indoctrined into a different League than I have.

Level 1 shield is usually good enough for most bot lane applications other than fighting a mage support. They do not max Shield for CC immunity. They max it for the absorption/frequency later game.
Morgana used to be 70+% Mid.
Mobis for wards is TOTALLY why Thresh takes them. Or Blitz...... Right..... (Not that they are useless in lane until they buy them or anything.....)

TobykachuMar 13, 20194 votes

Breaking through Morgana's rank 1 Black Shield is hilariously easy for anyone that deals magic damage. As a Bard main I am literally able to break the first part of the Black Shield with 1 Q only for the second part of the Q to hit a wall/unit and subsequently stun the target. If a Bard can do that then literally every mage can also do so. Maxing Black Shield guarentees you the highest amount of potential to block CC vs not maxing it first.
Morgana mid was never very enjoyable to play against as she fell into the role of endlessly pressing W on minion waves and having multiple defenders options to stifle aggressive plays. Not to mention how back in the early days of League there was no real meta, you could simply play anything anywhere. I'm sure after they realised how much better Morgana was as a support they made the decision that they should primarily try to balance her around that role instead.
You're right! She must buy Mobis soley so she can position better to get off Dark Bindings in lane, less they be blocked by minions. Must be the same reason why almost every support goes mobi boots, even if they don't have their abilities blocked by minions (Leona) or rely on skillshots (Alistar). I think you're playing a very different game to me if you think Theesh and Blitz are useless in lane. Mobis for warding and roaming is why almost every support takes them, not just Thresh and Morgana...

IllabetheMar 13, 20192 votes

Leona does it for the same reason...... to catch up to a target..... don't pretend it's any different.

And yeah. A good laner pretty much makes Blitz/Thresh useless until they have Mobis. It's called hiding behind minions.

TobykachuMar 13, 20195 votes

Why does Leona need the movement speed to catch up and engage onto a target, but other divers and tanks do not? Maokai, Sion, Malphite etc. never build mobi boots and yet for some reason it is the only option on Leona? If you honestly think mobi boots are only purchased to help position better in lane then you're actually deluding yourself. Sure, you can position yourself behind minions to avoid things like Thresh and Blitz hooks, but saying that they have the inability to then move to threaten them in this position is honestly on you playing poorly, not the champion itself. If you legitimately think Mobi boots are only purchased for laning then it's a hilarious waste of an item.

DessemMar 13, 20192 votes

If anything, right now, most Morg supports feel forced to max it, because the rest of her kit is unreliable in bot lane.

Curiously, according to Lolalytics, a vast majority of support Morgana max Q first. At level 6, around 37% will go Q W E Q Q R, and around 19% go Q E W Q Q R, with another 17% going W Q E Q Q R. Every other group is a minority, with Morgana who have level 3 Black Shield at level 6 generally trending towards lower winrates than all other Morgana.

I read this statement as meaning Morgana maxes E first because "the rest of her kit is unreliable in bot lane", but the data suggests most prefer Q, and those who feel forced to maximise E also produce lower win rates.

Conversely, most Mid lane Morgana players appear to max her W first.

Where's the idea come from that most Morg supports feel forced to max it, when a sizeable chunk maxes it last? (And still wins games.)

IllabetheMar 14, 20193 votes

It's an interesting point.

The reason they take Q first is simple, and exclusive from the rest of the point:

They take Q first to attempt a level 1-2 FB/Invade.

However...... the popular pick stats can be debated better by someone whose already done it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXnkno-ROmY

Just because stats say a build is popular does not mean it's the right build.

In fact Every build skill-wise on Morgana has a substantially good win rate. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Morgana/Support/

If you look down at the shield build, even though it's a low sample size, it's 64%.

BUT: The reason people generally go against what the #1 Morgana's do: They trust their offensive positioning more than their ability to to defend. Doesn't make them right or wrong. And this applies differently in case by case.

For example, vs a Thresh or Blitz, Spam leveling E is far more countering than spam leveling Q, because the CDR drops it down to almost spammable, and all their damage gets negated, including possible Thresh followup ult. Q attempts also risk getting you in straight lines for Thresh/Pyke/Blitz pulls, so if you have poor E reliability but reliable Q spam, you're likely to put yourself more at risk than if you just played defensive and E'd.

Z3SleeperMar 13, 20192 votes

I liked playing AP Yi mid. Was it healthy? Nah.

Morg can't be mid in the same way she used to atleast for 1 simple reason: Rito hates waveclear mages, and for good reason. They make the game super stale. Noone wants to face or watch the braindead safe waveclearing mage mid waveclear.

Now if Morg did something other than just waveclear with W (like she used to), then sure.

IllabetheMar 14, 20193 votes

Yeah...... because these mages can't instant wave clear: Ahri Anivia Annie Cassiopeia Ekko Fizz Heimerdinger Karthus Karma Katarina Lux Malzahar Neeko Rumble Veigar Velkoz Viktor Vladimir Xerath Zyra Ziggs

Oh wait...... they ALL can instantly wave clear, and cost less than Morgana to do it. Most need less items, less mana, and less of a lead to do it.

Z3SleeperMar 14, 20191 votes

While Morgana's strong crowd control and top-tier denial tool in Black Shield make her fantastic for those looking to protect a priority target or pick off a straggler, they also toe the line of making her a 'fallen-angel-of-all-trades'. In the interest of keeping her strengths strong, we're limiting her early lane control with the powerhouse pushing of Tormented Soil so she isn't great in every situation.

I like when Riot can speak for me.

IllabetheMar 14, 20192 votes

Riot often speaks in a biased small tunnel of vision. Literally every champ I mentioned clears just as well or better than Morgana. In fact, most of them can kill BARON'd Minions. Morgana is almost incapable of stopping a Baron push, because the increased defenses on the minions keep her W at low damage for a LONG time. Most of these other champs still clear baron'd minions better.

Tim From WorkMar 14, 20191 votes

You really think fizz and kat can waveclear better than Morgana?

IllabetheMar 14, 20192 votes

Katarina: Definitely. One Knife drop = dead wave after about level 6.

Fizz: Iffy. He can wave clear, but it uses his Trickster which leaves him vulnerable. So most Fizzes don't do it unless the other laner is not there.

AbiwonKenabiMar 13, 20193 votes

I find plenty of Morgana mains actually prefer her midlane. That could just be my own experience, but Morg was definitely designed originally as a mage, not a support. I can remember back in S2 when she was basically permabanned, not for support but for mid.

So I don't think it would necessarily hurt her in the long run to balance towards mid. She is honestly pretty fair, since a lot of her kit hinges on an extremely slow and blockable skill shot, plus she has to get in close with her ult for full kill potential.

TobykachuMar 13, 20192 votes

Plenty of champions were designed for one role, only to find more success in another and to then be subsequently balanced around that role. Vi was originally a top laner. Corki was originally an ADC. I'm sure plenty of Morgana mains prefer her mid and I'm sure plenty of Morgana mains prefer her support, but neither of us can claim definitively what all Morgana mains want. I'm not sure Riot could feasibly buff mid lane Morgana without resulting in either massively buffing support Morgana or making her a mid laner that just presses W on the minion wave and doesn't interact with her lane opponent

AbiwonKenabiMar 13, 20191 votes

I don't think mid lane Morgana needed buffs, I just don't think she needs nerfs. If the mid Morg is pressing W and not interacting with her opponent then they aren't playing mid lane Morg right. She can get kills early 1v1 once she has her ult and she's a fantastic roamer. She's definitely more utility-focused as the game goes on, but she's fine, she doesn't need buffs or nerfs. She relies on her W a lot to even function as a mid laner, as it IS her primary way to farm (along with her slow particle auto attacks) and also her primary source of damage. I just think Riot should be more careful nerfing that.

They could nerf her shield early to make it easier to break, but they won't do that because that would nerf the support Morgs. Riot just feels a little too trigger happy on the midlane Morg nerfs and extremely hesitant on anything that might affect support Morg.

TobykachuMar 13, 20192 votes

I haven't seen mid lane Morgana be particularly problematic, but at the end of the day, Riot are the ones with the complete stats and they seem to think mid lane Morgana is out of line and worthy of the nerfs so it's likely true. They're only small nerfs so it shouldn't make her unplayable in the mid lane.

Though I definitely agree that they're being perhaps too quick to nerf her, since other champions seem to be avoiding nerfs cough Riven despite being much more problematic.

Skins ProjectMar 13, 20191 votes

Blitz was also designed as a top laner :)

TobykachuMar 13, 20191 votes

Precisely. Does Blitzcrank deserve to be massively buffed to make him a viable top laner. Morgana, by comparison, isn't even that weak of a mid laner.

Fargo79Mar 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Precisely. Does Blitzcrank deserve to be massively buffed to make him a viable top laner. Morgana, by comparison, isn't even that weak of a mid laner.

Well compared to most of the champs they have released over the last 2-4 seasons most of whom seem to be mid like Yas, Zed, Neeko, Zoey, Sylas,even reworked Irelia and Talon. all hand morg her ass in lane.. they have easy poke, low CD's, mobile as fuck, true damage, shields that buff HP, some dont even rely on mana.. so yes she does pale in comparison to most mid laners when it comes to trades and over all damage.. she can clear a wave sure.. but she still has to step up and lay down her W which over the laning phase will burn out her mana pool.. there is a reason why we are not seeing the older style mages mid anymore.. cause there are better mages to be played there or just play an assassin.. so those older mid mages now play in bot.. Morg, Malz, Brand, Lux, Zyra, Annie, Xerath, Vel Koz, yes u will see them mid every now and then,, but a majority of their plays u will see them in the bot lane as a support or kill lane support..

the only change hey need to nerf morg with is her hitbox on her snare.. it is very sketchy on how it hits.. almost as bad as the OLD Nid spears.

TobykachuMar 14, 20191 votes

The thing about Morgana is that she has the ability to nullify the vast majority of mid lane match ups. She has the ability to endlessly shove waves from a relatively safe distance with her W. The only difference between a Morgana in a winning lane and a Morgana in a losing lane is her agency to fish for bindings. Against most of the mid lane champs you listed their ability to all in you is severely reduced if you manage to land a binding onto any of them. Even Yasuo who can windwall your binding has relatively low kill threat against a Morgana thanks to how difficult it should be for him to knock you up through your black shield.

As you said, a lot of the older and more traditional mages are struggling to find a solid home in the current meta of League of Legends the only difference being that Morgana has a home in the support role whilst virtually all of the mages you listed do not.

DisulfiramMar 14, 20192 votes

They will roam. Morgana can't stop them. If she tries to stop or follow Zed, he'll simply kill her. If she tries to stop or follow Talon, he'll simply kill her.

And Yasuo? Yeah, he can't outroam Morgana nor has a kill pressure against her. Which is fine. He already massively outscales her: there's no reason he should also have a lane advantage.

TobykachuMar 14, 20192 votes

Morgana has some of the best wave clear in the game at early levels. Enemy laners outside of A-Sol and Taliyah should ever be in a position to roam without losing 2+ waves to the tower which is an extremely unappealing prospect when it's not even guaranteed that they'll be able to get the kill.

If Morgana's first items are Seeker's and she has a defensive summoner then there's no way that Zed should be able to kill her if you decide to try and follow him and he wants to turn it around on you.

Yasuo is a unique story as he is an extremely overloaded champion who has many strengths at all points in the game, however this isn't an issue he has soley in the Morgana matchup, this is an issue he has in almost all matchups.

Morgana's late game scaling is generally tied to her adc. If she has a Kog'Maw/Jinx/Yi etc then her black shield is a massive problem when it comes to the late game. Damage isn't the only thing that scales well please remember that.

IllabetheMar 14, 20192 votes

Blitz also dominates as a top laner still. The reason he is played as a support is not because he's a poor laner. On the contrary. It's because in a solo lane he only helps himself. In a duo lane he basically can lane for two. He can make the bot's job, while getting his gold for free.

This is a case of "he's just more powerful when helping others." Not "poor laner"

ShirvallahMar 13, 20194 votes

{quoted}

I think you're pushing too hard for Morgana to be a midlaner and taking away significant parts of her power as a support to open up room for a niche playstyle is going to hurt Morgana in the long run as most mid lane players don't particularly enjoy playing as or against her.

It’s like you’re forgetting the role she was originally intended for...?

TobykachuMar 13, 20192 votes

So do all champions who have found a new home in a role they weren't initially conceived for deserve to be buffed to go back to that role? Should we buff Corki, Graves, Vi etc? This whole argument is baseless anyway as she is a perfectly playable mid laner anyway. She just isn't a particularly strong mid laner as her new primary home is as a support. The nerfs she has on the PBE is because she is actually very strong in the mid lane right now, not because she's strong as a support.

Chembaron YamadaMar 13, 20193 votes

That was the past, but Morganas playstyle is not healthy for mid lane, since it revolves completely around just perma pushing the wave with W while avoiding any kind of player interaction with Q and E.

Which is exactly the opposite of what Riots design philosophy has become over time. They want more player interaction, not less. Morgana simply denies every engage on her as long as she isn't sure that she can easily kill you and pushes endlessly, forcing you to play farm simulator under your tower if your wave clear doesn't match hers.

TwitchInMyPantsMar 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I think you're pushing too hard for Morgana to be a midlaner and taking away significant parts of her power as a support to open up room for a niche playstyle is going to hurt Morgana in the long run as most mid lane players don't particularly enjoy playing as or against her.

Morgana was a midlaner for years before becoming a support in later seasons. She's short ranged and limited, she's no more toxic than Annie or Veigar and doesn't compete with frustration levels of things like LeBlanc or Zoe.

I could really make a list of more toxic kits than a spellshield and some hard cc. And its not niche, W is pretty pointless botlane other than proccing spellthiefs and was literally designed for her to exist as a mage.

Also "Not fun to play against" is a poor metric given every champion is literally that. Some champions have more interaction or skill involved than others, but other than shutting down cc and movement Morgana is pretty easy to interact with. You even state in this thread black shield is easy to break so I think your frustration point is moot when that's literally the most frustrating thing for a mage to deal with.

Champion diversity adds value. The only time it doesn't is when a champion is OP to a point where they're strong in multiple lanes due to having no real weakness. Being a strong support and a good mid counterpick doesn't hurt the game.

TobykachuMar 14, 20191 votes

I am well aware that Morgana was designed as a mid laner, however just because she is much more powerful/popular as a support doesn't mean she isn't at least viable in the mid lane. Sure she's not massively powerful, but I'd definitely rather see Morgana mid than a Lee Sin top or Graves ADC, so let's try and avoid using phrasing that implies Morgana is unplayable as a mid laner.

That's what I mean. Morgana mid lane is arguably the most un interactive lane opponents in the entire game. From level 1 she places her W and stays a safe distance away and in winning matchups she can fish for bindings. In losing matchups she can build super defensively and keep her binding available for whenever you might look to go aggressive, black shield and walk away.

If Morgana mid is only able to exist as a specific counter pick to certain champions, she somewhat already is, then she would not be a good mid laner. Take old Kayle for example. She was arguably the single best counter pick to assassins in the game, however did this mean she was any more viable as a support as mid lane Morgana is now? Whilst I agree that having all champions be viable in as many roles as possible is generally a good thing, we simply are not at the point yet as so many champions are barely viable in one role.

Fargo79Mar 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I am well aware that Morgana was designed as a mid laner, however just because she is much more powerful/popular as a support doesn't mean she isn't at least viable in the mid lane. Sure she's not massively powerful, but I'd definitely rather see Morgana mid than a Lee Sin top or Graves ADC, so let's try and avoid using phrasing that implies Morgana is unplayable as a mid laner.

That's what I mean. Morgana mid lane is arguably the most un interactive lane opponents in the entire game. From level 1 she places her W and stays a safe distance away and in winning matchups she can fish for bindings. In losing matchups she can build super defensively and keep her binding available for whenever you might look to go aggressive, black shield and walk away.

If Morgana mid is only able to exist as a specific counter pick to certain champions, she somewhat already is, then she would not be a good mid laner. Take old Kayle for example. She was arguably the single best counter pick to assassins in the game, however did this mean she was any more viable as a support as mid lane Morgana is now? Whilst I agree that having all champions be viable in as many roles as possible is generally a good thing, we simply are not at the point yet as so many champions are barely viable in one role.

so u see morg as an "Uninteractive" lane opponent.. laned against a Malz lately?? or an annie?? nothing like a champ that can farm lane with his space aids while he is back in base shopping or a champ that has a massive auto attack range for last hits and keep her stun up for a point and click nuke stun.. anyone remember the old Talon and Kass? talon with an instant gap closing silence, and kass who had his own silence point and click.. depending on who u r playing can determine on how easy, fun, defensive u have to play which in turn will also effect how u view being "uninteractive".. cause by this logic almost EVERY top lane match up would be this.. top lane is just farm, trade a little, jungle ganks here and there. and after 15-20 mins swap with bot lane cause they have taken tower..

TobykachuMar 18, 20191 votes

I fell EXACTLY the same way about Malzahar. Every time he becomes in the meta again I am a massive advocate of nerfing him into the ground. Ideally I hope they revert the Malzahar mini rework. His kit lacks any skill anymore and gives him too many free tools for no reason. Annie has much more interactivity than Morgana. She has little to no defensive tools, very subpoor wave clear and terrible range. All of these things give you avenues to fight back. If she can't one shot you, she is worthless. Building even a few defensive items stops this from happening. Banshee's Veil, Merc treads, Hexdrinker and she is useless. She has no reliable waveclear. An unreliable CC ability and a damage reduction in her kit.

Fargo79Mar 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I fell EXACTLY the same way about Malzahar. Every time he becomes in the meta again I am a massive advocate of nerfing him into the ground. Ideally I hope they revert the Malzahar mini rework. His kit lacks any skill anymore and gives him too many free tools for no reason. Annie has much more interactivity than Morgana. She has little to no defensive tools, very subpoor wave clear and terrible range. All of these things give you avenues to fight back. If she can't one shot you, she is worthless. Building even a few defensive items stops this from happening. Banshee's Veil, Merc treads, Hexdrinker and she is useless. She has no reliable waveclear. An unreliable CC ability and a damage reduction in her kit.

U must play alot of AD champs mid then.. cause its great that they have so many MR items they can build without giving up a a real power spike.. AP mages on the other hand can only build Armguard as a defensive item.. and when that happens their Mana regen and CD take a hit as well as actual AP Scaling. sorry but if morg lands a snares thats on u.. ill admit its hitbox is off a tad.. but its slow moving, can be blocked, and if you are playing champs like Zed, Yas, Irelia, Sylas, zoey, talon, Taliya(spelt that wrong) LB, Lux, etc etc etc.. they either dont care about her shield cause they can plow thru it or their follow up attacks come off CD before her shield is off of CD..

TobykachuMar 19, 20191 votes

I am a support main, with mid as my off role and when I go mid I only ever play AP champions - Usually Vel'Koz or Aurelion Sol. AP champions can go Banshee's Veil and Annie is unable to simply unable to kill them, and in this situation she is completely useless as almost every other mage generally has more windows open in which to harass her back.

I agree, Morgana's bind is very easy to dodge in lane usually, the issue is that this doesn't often fall into her game play pattern. She will just W the wave and hard shove it 24/7 and very few champions in the game have the ability to match this wave clear in the early game. In most match-ups she will hold onto her Q for whenever she is getting ganked or you decide to go aggressive.

On the matter of her black shield, yes it is easily broken by most mid laners, but generally it should be used to block CC rather than simply as a tool to block damage. There are very few mid laners with instantaneous hard cc in the game and so it should be very easy to react to these abilities as they're in the air and most champions rely on landing these abilities to get the rest of their combo off reliably. Not to mention an extra 200hp to burn through is quite a significant amount in the early stages of the game.

Fargo79Mar 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I am a support main, with mid as my off role and when I go mid I only ever play AP champions - Usually Vel'Koz or Aurelion Sol. AP champions can go Banshee's Veil and Annie is unable to simply unable to kill them, and in this situation she is completely useless as almost every other mage generally has more windows open in which to harass her back.

I agree, Morgana's bind is very easy to dodge in lane usually, the issue is that this doesn't often fall into her game play pattern. She will just W the wave and hard shove it 24/7 and very few champions in the game have the ability to match this wave clear in the early game. In most match-ups she will hold onto her Q for whenever she is getting ganked or you decide to go aggressive.

On the matter of her black shield, yes it is easily broken by most mid laners, but generally it should be used to block CC rather than simply as a tool to block damage. There are very few mid laners with instantaneous hard cc in the game and so it should be very easy to react to these abilities as they're in the air and most champions rely on landing these abilities to get the rest of their combo off reliably. Not to mention an extra 200hp to burn through is quite a significant amount in the early stages of the game.

Very true.. but dont forget her shield is only a 200hp boost if the incoming damage is AP.. ad champs couldnt give shit about her shield..

TobykachuMar 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Very true.. but dont forget her shield is only a 200hp boost if the incoming damage is AP.. ad champs couldnt give shit about her shield..

The damage it absorbs is kind of irrelevant in most cases. Almost all mid laners either bypass the damage completely by virtue of being AD or simply have high enough damage to melt through it almost instantly. The real thing it does is block CC, which almost all mid laners need to land in order to dish out their full combo. Ahri, Veigar, Syndra, Vel'Koz etc.

StrawberrycocoaMar 13, 20194 votes

I thought the VU reveal video specifically said Morgana wasn't receiving any changes. So if she hasn't been changed at all from her pre-VU status, why are they talking nerfs now?

And W absolutely needs to be more punishing. It's already very easy to avoid taking meaningful damage from it, with Minions blocking Q reliability.

It's been a long time since I played Morgana Mid but I tried picking her back up post VGU and I gotta say, she's just NOT competitive as a midlaner against more modern kits, except as a non-interactive lane-pusher. Too easy to avoid or dance around her main damage sources, and she has to sacrifice all sense of safety to use her power play moment (ult) which is itself pretty much just useful for putting Flash on cooldown.

Salvor HardınMar 13, 20193 votes

I agree, maybe a reduction on Q AP ratio as well. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

RaiyzaMar 13, 20193 votes

Wait a moment....

She gets a movement speed buff on her ult, and all of a sudden she needs a nerf to her W? What?

IllabetheMar 13, 20191 votes

That isn't all they did to her. The reformulated her W to a 33% lower base damage and AP conversion, and then let it scale up to 170% increased damage from there. The end result was about a 13% loss of damage on the front end, but a 13% gain of damage on the back end.

If you can hit Q/R, it was a slight buff, since you can get the larger damage faster by using other damage sources.

RaiyzaMar 13, 20193 votes

Why does this need a nerf? It sounds like they want to increase her later game power. That seems fine to me.

mack9112Mar 13, 20192 votes

I believe they are nerfing her in this direction as it will impact her mid lane the most since her waveclear will be impacted.

The thought is that her mid lane is most out of line which I can agree with.

IllabetheMar 13, 20196 votes

Waveclear is SUPPOSED to be her strength with Soil. It's a useless Champion tool.

SaiannaMar 13, 20194 votes

Remember when it took skill to use soil first then Q to maximize the damage from magic strip it provided? Ah good times

mack9112Mar 14, 20191 votes

The point of the nerf though is that the champion has so many powerful abilities in her kit that she should not have amazing waveclear as well instead she can have regular waveclear.

IllabetheMar 14, 20191 votes

Except..... relative to the entire current meta, her abilities are NOT powerful. They are 1 effect skills that have no secondary effects or fundamental passives, and offer no ongoing synergies.

If you look at newer champs, every skill has at least 2 features, and at least one of those is arguably more powerful than Morg's 1 feature. Furthermore. they have stronger inter-mingling interactions.

mack9112Mar 14, 20191 votes

I’m sorry hit Morgs kit is absolutely powerful with an amazing root , spell denial , team wide potential root with innate sustain through passive and waveclear. She can easily compete with any modern champion.

IllabetheMar 14, 20191 votes

You can knock your head against that wall all you want. It doesn't make it true. Pulling up a decent KDA or contributing a lot to assists does NOT make it competitive with the current meta. Nor does it make it as useful as the current meta.

Neeko can do the same thing as Morg's Q....... to an entire team. On a lower cooldown. Without Minion Block being a thing.

AP damage denial is shared by several champs now, and the CC mitigation while powerful, takes up a damage slot, and is a very linear skill with very little complexity.

W is literally NOTHING in its current incarnation. Many champions can literally out HP regen the damage it causes unless she hits Q, and then she has to be extremely fed to do much damage, and they have to not be building resist.

Ult literally kills her more than it contributes after about 13 minutes. After 13 minutes it's basically used as a last hit mechanism to champs who are low HP. If you try to use it as a team ult, you generally die, or you Zhonya's, they run out of your ult, and then you still die.

I'm definitely not saying she cannot win. Otherwise I wouldn't have started the thread. I am saying she is not complex, and you over-evaluate her strengths. It's like saying a Passive non skilling Janna is somehow competitive. Bullshit it is. But Janna often wins just by existing, and occasionally casting her shield. Only after about Plat Tier do you actually have to skill and set up complicated angles with her kit and actually use it.

mack9112Mar 14, 20192 votes

Im sorry but no neeko is nothing compared to the strength of morgs kit when used correctly.

Neeko is simply easier to use than morganna so people see her being used correctly for more than morg as well people see morganna as a support usually so they do not encounter what a solo mid morganna can due with that amount of ap since she has great ratios. She nukes squishy targets with q and has insane black shields.

Mid morganna deserves to pay for a bit more waveclear issues if she gets that