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A little miffed by one thing that complicates climbing as an All Rounder.

Illabethe··40 votes·27,793 views

Okay. I haven't played much so maybe someone's already covered this.

I've been occasionally placing different roles on my low elo account, and discovered the following:

I received Top 100 LP after I won a "Fill" Support game, which put my Support into Promotions.

However: Apparently, just to get that 100 LP on Top to Promotions, I have to win ANOTHER game just to get to Top promotions.

I cannot understate what I just said: **To Multi-rank, you literally have to get the equivalent of 120+ LP just to Promote. **

And..... if you play ANY OTHER ROLE before that 1 game, your splash can drop you down.

This is going to lead to some insane problems: -You will have to play 20% more games to climb overall. -You will still have to deal with promotions and the LP loss within it. -You have to play 4-5 times as many games JUST TO Progress your secondary roles!

I Don't know about you, but I don't have time for 14,000 games a year. There's only 8,760 hours in a year! Last year I clocked about 3000 games! I'm getting older. League's community as a whole is getting older. Does Riot know what happens when players get older?

-They get families, jobs, school, and have to pay bills.

And....

THEY HAVE A LOT LESS TIME TO PLAY GAMES

33 Comments

Illabethe11 votes

Progress Report.

Ofc on the game I went top to try to get the Promotion started, I got an int feeding troll Heimerdinger Support with a 27% Win rate. He literally went 1/11 in 16 minutes, feeding most of it to a Vayne.

So now that role is down to 83 LP, because Riot can't let 100 LP = Promotions. If it had been promos, I would have 2 games to make up the int feeding player. But nah.

Z3Sleeper5 votes

Theoretically, this means you can have Challenger MMR in a role in Iron IV.

Win as Top to 100 LP. Lose as Support to drop Top down to 97 LP. Win as Top again. Lose as Support again. Rinse and repeat.

Expected effect is your Top MMR keeps climbing infinitely without advancing tiers.

Illabethe6 votes

You know what's funny?

I'm at 29 wins 15 losses and still not through a Promo series for ANY role. Any other season: I'd have went up 2-3 tiers.

GigglesO3 votes

your roles join together at master tier. So you could do this with diamond, but not so much master.

Starcraft243ver1 votes

You could already do this in previous seasons by just dodging your promos games.

DeathBurst1 votes

That was always possible even in previous season, and without losing a game on purpose in a secondary role (which is still a bannable offense, losing on purpose...). You just have to dodge while you're in promo series. Counts as a loss for Promos, but doesn't drop your MMR, so you can have as high a MMR as you want while still being Ranked in Iron4.

But that doesn't matter anyway, because Matchmaking use your MMR directly, not your Rank, so you'll still get fair games.

TwitchInMyPants3 votes

They split Ranked into 3 splits to get all the rewards and intentionally increased the LP grind

They know what they're doing. They're trying to get people addicted to have a dedicated population.

Arcanine193 votes

https://imgur.com/a/7hJKPoF This has been out for almost a week...

Illabethe5 votes

If they follow through with that 9.4 Note, that'll be helpful.

However, I see a problem in that too.

The current system DOUBLES the reward in LP Splash for a "Fill" player vs a 1 role main who just happens to get his secondary choice.

What this is going to create:

-Low elo High win rate Fill accounts who are languishing behind 1 tricks who are racing up tiers, because their points are more spread out, but constantly going up because their splash is greater than their loss LP.

(This is me right now. I have about a 67% Win rate in almost 40 games on this account, placed my low elo account into B II, and am barely getting to BI/S IV on my fill roles)

In other words, I'm performing so well at this elo, and going to continue to perform well because:

-The one tricks who are successful are moving up the tiers. -The one tricks who are unsuccessful, are moving down tiers or staying the same as me, feeding me more, because I'm a better player.

In other words, Riot is looking to punish bad performers, but hasn't said anything about balancing out how "Fill" works at getting people to their appropriate skill level. I will maintain this 67% Win rate, and probably get even better as I warm up. But I'll always be 3-4 tiers behind the people I SHOULD be playing against, because they are 1 tricking and I am not. They may even be only getting a 50% win rate at those tiers too.

In my opinion, that's a major problem. It endorses Smurfing, and literally creates a system where the players are NOT equally matched.

DeathBurst1 votes

Hum, why would you keep that 60+% winrate? As long as your winrate is above 50%, your MMR will keep increasing and you will get harder and harder opponents, until it gets down to roughly 50%.

There might be a disconnect between your MMR and displayed Rank, and you might play against people who are Ranked a couple divisions higher than you, but y'all will have the same MMR in the game. You will BE playing against the people you SHOULD be playing, pretty soon.

Saezio2 votes

I sympathise with you. If they don't fix it the best you can do is always queue up as the role that is the highest LP for you. In order to have the least chance of this occurring

Illabethe5 votes

Or just play the champ you 100% Win rate with in all roles o.O (Just kidding I know most people can't do this; I had a 100% Win rate with Morgana in Season 7 in 56 games with her and I'm not far off this season...... mostly in jungle >.>)

Then again, I'm playing her way outside my skill level with her >.>

So dumb to be 25/13 and only getting 20 LP a game....

Saezio1 votes

I abused her too. On support though. Up until high gold where people understand not to reset my W she is pretty hard to lose on. And I would guess she better in a role with more agency. Comet+scorch+Cheapshot and you feel like playing farmvile simulator xD

undercover90002 votes

That's exactly what they should change, give an incentive when you did hard win your lane and then hard carry your team towards victory and even if you lose I might add. When you know the game you can see that jgl or adc skill level difference is gonna be problematic and probably means a lost game.

Lots of players winning their lane but with a losing team are now like "man this game is a ff15 kinda game but I am wining my lane, the question is do I really want to try that hard to carry and win whîle knowing it might just end up being a waste of time and energy for a lost game and if it's a win it was after all just for this little 20lp that even my feeding and toxic teamate will get for free on the back of my labor ? well screw it and let's ff. "

And that is what Riot should focus on to fix. Which is not an easy thing cause we don't want everyone to play hard carries etc but now that I think about it everyone already plays hardcarries all games even supports nowadays so ...

Jesus is Savior2 votes

Dodging also reduces LP on ALL your roles. So if you're at the 10 LP threshold (2nd, 3rd, or 4th dodge of the day) you lose 10 LP from ALL positions, not just the one you dodged. Have fun trying to climb.

Illabethe3 votes

Or........ you just don't dodge.

Emerald Fang1 votes

Unfortunately this is the best option if you want to play all roles. I'd rather play a completely lost game with a troll and lose 20LP on one role than lose a total of 50LP over 5 roles. Even 3 LP in each role is a struggle and it can add up.

6KEMBE4ORBA1 votes

I hope this trash positional ranks system never comes to EU servers.

You have my sympathy.

yay pink1 votes

{quoted}

Progress Report.

This game me flashbacks of like, 7th grade when they sent home progress reports midway through each marking period between actual report cards... and I wasnt the best with grades so that just added 4 more times in the schoolyear to get in trouble.... I thought it was funny... random...

ANYWAY...

{quoted}

That's exactly what they should change, give an incentive when you did hard win your lane and then hard carry your team towards victory and even if you lose I might add.

If you're saying what I think then this is exactly why I don't play ranked. If its not what I think you mean then I just look stupid, but...

I think I'm over the 7 maybe 8 thousand NORMAL games played, and only like 10 or so, maybe more, I forget, ranked games spread over seasons 2-5 maybe 6... maybe played couple last season... whatever....

BUT because the player who tries hard and does extremely well, like 230/4/170 (hypothetical) or something KDA, carries the team up until the last deciding baron or fight.... and they lose the fight... and then the game... but there is also a player on the team that was trying so hard to throw and lose the game for everyone and went like 0/500/0.... both of those players get the same punishment for the loss. (Unless I'm mistaken and stupid) I don't mean someone who is actually trying but has a bad game, I mean the guy purposely sabotaging the game.

Since this season obviously so far seems worse than the others in terms of horrible matchmaking, I literally just don't see a reason to stress over ranked. Normals can be stressful as it is with people who play blindfolded or cover up their minimap or play "Iron Man" mode where they seem to be playing with your fists and stuff... but at least afterwards you lose nothing and you can even still get rewarded if you did well with honor and mastery, although those 2 things don't matter as much as LP in ranked to most people.

So yeah I thought for sure I read something years ago about individualized LP maybe being a thing? Like if you put down 1000 wards, and went 0-0-100 as support with the most healing and CC, that you'd lose less LP than the player running it down mid 100 times, but I guess not, which is my biggest turn off to ranked. Not saying you should be rewarded per say, but at least not punished as bad as the troll.

I don't know how that would work with this positional stuff but... yeah. I see youtubers/steamers/posts/billboards/murals/bathroom walls/etc... with 4 players trying hard even with a troll, still trying hard to win being handicapped by the game ruiner, just for the troll to "win" and they all lose a bunch of LP, and even worse for people in promos.

If I'm wrong about all this, and they did change this and I didnt know, I wouldnt be surprised. K, bye.

DarkmoonDiana1 votes

I made a post talking about the same thing a little while ago. I play fill only. Imagine having to play 3 games, and not gain ANY lp for them, but every game you lose counts as lp loss against you. Feels bad

DrippyBrownHole1 votes

Ranked is for people who want to pretend they'll make the big leagues someday, not for normal people with responsibilities

ApollyonBainer1 votes

I like playing different roles and would say ive got 2-4 champs in each role that I can play at my level. But I need to play the same amount of games in each role to climb at an even level. WHos fucking idea was that. I dont have time for that! I just wanted to hit gold this year

Illabethe1 votes

I think if you're an average player, it's a blessing in disguise. You only lose 3 LP as a Fill. But you gain 6 as a win. And the role you get filled in still gets full points.

In other words, the math of "Fill" is on the average side. Once you start going, even if you perform at 50%, you'll probably get to gold more reliably than you would risking 50% as a one role player. 1 role is designed to stalemate. 4-5 roles isn't as long as you can perform in them.

Right now I'm about 70% win rate and getting into my promos for Silver IV from B I in most classes. Yesterday I was promos from BII to BI. Even if you are a 50% player, it's likely you can hit a promo every other day, and the teams at promos aren't as bad, because most people who are single classing are not there to compete with you. You're basically an Average all rounder facing Average Single Rolers.

Grey Wolf1 votes

I lose 3 LP and gain 4LP. Not exactly thrilling.

Illabethe1 votes

You're referring to the splash, right?

P.S. you almost exclusively Jungle..... your other games were just to unlock the roles.

ApollyonBainer1 votes

Thats an interesting point. Still I have despised bot lane as a whole since before preseason. And right now its lucian or ez. Jinx being the other option from what it looks like. And support is thresh, ali fell off, brand, i hear sona is average. But its so stale

Grey Wolf1 votes

Agreed. The current system sucks. Add to the issue that losing on an off role can demote you if you are at 0LP and this year ranked is the land of suck.

They need to really crank up LP gains, losses and splashing. At least double it.

5050BS2 votes

Worst Season Yet

Alzon1 votes

There needs to be a way to opt out of positional matchmaking other than role swapping multiple times until that “privilege” is revoked.

LuxannaVeritas1 votes

This is an interesting fact that I didn't know about, so thank you for sharing. As someone who's going to try and climb in multiple roles, this is good information to have.

I do think it's a bit unfair to flex players, as you said, but the main question I have at the moment is this; how WOULD you implement having 100 LP = promos?

  • Would wins in other roles count as wins in the promo, or maybe winning a certain amount of games counts as a win in the promo? The flip side could be said about losses, too.

  • Seeing as LP splashing is a thing, would you drop from 100 LP if you lose in an off-role? If LP splashing is turned off once a role reaches promos, then that eliminates the incentive against people trolling when they get off roles. While I do agree that LP splashing isn't an entirely effective way against trolls, it's better than nothing.

  • Is there maybe a way you can avoid promos in an off-role? Of course, this alternative method would have to be a lot longer and harder work than the promo series itself, but maybe another form of promoting is needed in this case.

  • How many players actually play more than one role willingly in ranked? Is it worth making changes such as these to benefit them? I know that I'm one of those people but honestly, I'm not sure what percentage of the sample I fall into.

Those are just some ideas I'm thinking of when it comes in terms with this issue, but I'd like to hear thoughts if you want to share.

Illabethe1 votes

Atm multiple roles works like this once you are in promotions:

The role that is in promotions neither loses nor gains LP when a game is played in another role.

The roles that are NOT in promotions lose/gain splash LP when you play a promotional game.

In other words, if you "Fill" and manage to get the role you are in promotions in, you can still gain 3-6 LP splash in other roles when you win.

LuxannaVeritas1 votes

{quoted}

Atm multiple roles works like this once you are in promotions:

The role that is in promotions neither loses nor gains LP when a game is played in another role.

The roles that are NOT in promotions lose/gain splash LP when you play a promotional game.

In other words, if you "Fill" and manage to get the role you are in promotions in, you can still gain 3-6 LP splash in other roles when you win.

Thanks for going into more detail, but I was actually asking what YOU would do to change the system in this regard. It's clear that what is live now isn't the best for people who play fill, so I was wondering if you had and ideas to make it better.

5050BS1 votes

Riot wants us to play TONS of games with little to show for it. This IS the design. This IS why Promos are rigged. This IS why climbing is shit.

Riot does not want players to climb. The more they can keep people into Silver the more will play and struggle to get to Gold at the end of the season (because we want the stupid skin).

This is BY DESIGN.

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