So can we just start calling "Juggernauts" what they actually are?

deadlychuck··4 votes·354 views

AD tanks.

There are a few champions according to riot which are "tanks" and AD specifically Poppy Sion JarvanIV (note J4 is a tank according to the client, but a fighter according to the subclass breakdown https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list)

Then if you look at the list of juggernauts who are AP, you've got Mordekaiser Udyr DrMundo Nasus just grasping at straws at this point.

Basically tanks are almost universally AP scaling + defensive mechanics and juggernauts are AD scaling + defensive mechanics. Just because AD items are far more efficient than AP items, doesn't justify creating a completely new class around this one factor.

Now i'm gonna rant about how poorly this current environment has been handled. AD is slowly taking over the game, with it being common place to now see viable 4-5 AD comps. Something needs to be done to turn this around now, before AP is left at an unrecoverable state. Mind you this isn't about mages and how they interact with AP, i'm specifically talking about how the stats are designed and implemented. There are basically no advantageous stats which exist for AP exclusively. Spell vamp removed, lifesteal perfectly fine, fuck they even got to keep spell vamp on physical damage skills (which worked before) via item 3812 . CDR globalized. Mana has been made trivial (or non-existent) to just about every AD champion.

16 Comments

Ralanr3 votes

Because they aren't tanks. They lack the initiation power or the CC to actually be tanks.

Stacona1 votes

They are tanks. But to further define them they are the sub-class of a Juggernaut.

Ralanr5 votes

No, juggernauts are a subclass of fighters. Tanks are divided into Vanguards and Wardens.

Tanky==Tank.

Stacona1 votes

Fighters are also a sub-class of tanks

Ralanr4 votes

{quoted}

Fighters are also a sub-class of tanks

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

No they've been their own class.

deadlychuck3 votes

Darius Nasus Shyvana Volibear

Yeah, i don't see it. Just because they don't have some kind of dash, doesn't mean they lack initiation. Not to mention factoring in their item options like item 3742 item 3800 which by themselves give them that lacking initiation power.

Many tanks also don't have insane amounts of CC, Gragas Rammus Malphite

Ralanr1 votes

{quoted}

Darius Nasus Shyvana Volibear

Yeah, i don't see it. Just because they don't have some kind of dash, doesn't mean they lack initiation.

Darius isn't got jack for initiation. If you're relying on his E to start fights you will rarely start fights.

What is Nasus going to do? Slow one person? Who is going to let him get close enough?

Shyvana is a diver, she lacks more CC to be a tank.

Volibear can get slowed incredibly easily. Not the best engage and his supposed to hurt.

Not to mention factoring in their item options like item 3742 item 3800 which by themselves give them that lacking initiation power.

Righteous Glory maybe, but not Deadmans. Deadmans is better for roaming than engage.

Many tanks also don't have insane amounts of CC, Gragas Rammus Malphite

Both Gragas and Rammus have two forms of hard CC, that's usually the norm of tanks. Malphite has such power in his ult and the utility of his AA slows that he's a tank (one of very old design).

Stacona2 votes

Juggernaut is a sub-class of a tank

deadlychuck2 votes

They're a sub-class of fighters.

Big Lincoln2 votes

Juggernauts are a subgroup of fighters. They don't do what tanks are picked for.

Limited mobility if any at all, low CC, high damage threats. They're picked for different reasons and excel at different things.

The Sword Saint2 votes

None of those champions are tanks except arguable sion and poppy why are still closer to fighters than tanks.

Tanks are like maokai, malphite, rammus... champions who can't really duel at all without some cheese build but who have massive cc and durability.

deadlychuck1 votes

tell that to riot, who classified poppy as a Warden.

Ralanr2 votes

And she is, she's also a bit of a fighter though.

Primarily she's a Warden.

SirΤeemο1 votes

[deleted]

deadlychuck2 votes

I doubt it, they're more than likely just people who refuse to accept when you give champions no hard weaknesses, they're definitions start to bleed over, as their kits are so rounded that they fit into every category to some extent.

This shit basically started back with lee sin. People think that the april fools video was a joke, but that's what the game has actually become, with champions being given full kits that provide the solutions to their otherwise weaknesses. To quote phreak "a ranged melee tanky dps assassin mage tank support jungler he excels at everything"

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