Nobody will agree with me, but they really do.
None of them really win their lanes, or exert dominant pressure on someone that doesn't have a blatant weakness like TF or Ziggs.
Viktor, for example, can't be adequately pressured without a jungle gank and 
DoktorKaiser6 votesGood riddance...
Jaygo419 votesSoraka player alert! Soraka player alert!
They haven't been meta in oh idk 3 years, whaddya say we give em a go again?
AMYS GRAVE5 votesNo thank you. Assassins have game health problems that are their design. Any champion who can 100-0 you before your ping catches up to let you know you've died is a problem. When assassins are strong they create the same non-interactive problems that Soraka does, only worse because you're dead and can't do anything. At least Soraka lets you farm it out.
Jaygo419 votesThis is utterly ridiculous. Suddenly a style of gameplay that involves quick reflexes and good to great use of cooldowns and skillshots is considered a design problem?
Additionally, all of these issues got changed by the assassin update. Your point simply doesnt exist outside of cheese cases like full AD J4, massively fed Akali, etc.
The idea of a squishy melee burst champ is something that belongs in the game just as much if not more as a mobile, tanky ranged mage with high burst. I refuse to believe the root cause is design.
AMYS GRAVE5 votesSuddenly a style of gameplay that involves quick reflexes...
Let me stop you right there. If you die before your 100ms ping catches up to you then you have no opportunity to react. That isn't quick reflexes, that's the technical limitations imposed by the nature of online gaming. That is a problem, yes. That is the design of assassin 3 years ago, and they were meta because they could kill 100-0 before the person on the other end even saw them move. That is a design problem because they could kill not through skillful use of cooldowns, or because of misplays by their opponents, but purely because those on the receiving end had identically zero time to do anything about the situation. The person on the receiving end couldn't use zhonyas or any part of their kit or summoner spells because by the time they pressed the button it was too late. By the time that packet reached riots servers they were already dead. That is a problem, and we don't want to go back to the point where assassins were designed to exploit the real life technical limitations of networking. It wasn't fair then, that design will never be healthy for the game, and i for one am glad that riot is smart enough to recognize that.
In the end i'm sure you'll blindly downvote this because you want to instantly pop whoever you're looking at without them being able to react, but i'm glad it wont matter. Riot isn't going to change assassins back to how they were, because riot understands that they don't design a game in a vacuum, and are subject to real world limitations.
Jaygo415 votesDoes Zed REALLY kill you in 100 MS? I'd say his burst pattern is at least 2.5-4 seconds.
You're missing the point. These guys all suffer from horrible lane phases due to exhaust and ranged champs simply being better in lane than melees. Doran's shield sucks. They get outpressured out of lane too easily. "Well just roam!" Then they go down 20-40 CS. If they don't get the gank or the roam to work, they're fucked.
None of them have particularly strong lanes or can stand up to dominant mages like Ryze, Viktor, Syndra, and others. MELEE Assassins, mind you.
AMYS GRAVE1 votesDoes Zed REALLY kill you in 100 MS?
Zed didn't in that age, but many of the other assassins did. Zed was also the best designed assassin three years ago. Many of the others really would kill you in less than 100 ms. There's a popular Rengar 0.01 second (the smallest increment of time that death recap counts in) 100-0 kill from that era back when he could activate all three abilities and tiamat while remaining invisible mid ult leap. To his teammates it would look like the game bugged out and replaced their teammate with rengar in one frame of animation.
Jaygo415 votesNone of them do that now tho, that was the whole point of the rework.
GIVEN that, none of them really do the same amount of damage even AFTER the extended burst window. They just all feel like garbage even when you're ahead, as opposed to just feeling like garbage when behind.
Bottom line is that assassins are a late game liability and there's too much that cucks them, in addition to most of them being just straight up undertuned.
AMYS GRAVE1 votesNone of them do that now tho,
Yeah, that's why they haven't been meta in 3 years. If they can kill before people can react then they will be meta, but that isn't a good situation for game health.
Bottom line is that assassins are a late game liability
That has always been true.
most of them being just straight up undertuned.
That is currently very true, but we don't want season 3/4 assassins back, because that was not ok.
Jaygo412 votesAGAIN, you're missing the point.
There's actually no way we GET season 3/4 assassins back, because THOSE guys HAD the .1 second burst windows. The point is that for their current burst windows, they simply don't do enough damage and their laning phases suck. This has to do with Melee vs. Ranged dynamics, Exhaust, and the blatant undertuning of their base values and damages.
What mage isn't gonna just build a Rod of Ages and completely get around the whole window that these assassins get? I remember when RoA was an item that was only built on people that actually needed the health, now it's a solid starting item with luxury scaling and a sweet passive.
Assassins need to exist in the game whether you like it or not. Grouping up and just smashing into each other is a boring strategy and assassins have always been a high risk and exhilarating playstyle that quite frankly belongs in a game where squishy ranged damage dealers exist. They just have to exist, or else someone will MAKE them exist (Full AD Pantheon, Lee, J4, etc.)
AMYS GRAVE1 votesAGAIN, you're missing the point.
I'm really not. You asked for assassins to be as strong as they were 3 years ago, and i explained why that wouldn't happen.
There's actually no way we GET season 3/4 assassins back,
And that is what it would take to make assassins feel strong again. That's not going to happen so assassins will never be meta again. That's the hard truth of it, and quite frankly is the end of the conversation. You make a couple of funny comments though, which i can't help but respond to.
Assassins need to exist in the game whether you like it or not.
Diving fighters provide the same threat to immobile carries and their existence could completely negate the need for assassins altogether.
Grouping up and just smashing into each other is a boring strategy
Sounds like you want split pushers to be strong not assassins.
and assassins have always been a high risk and exhilarating playstyle
With the mobility that many assassins have they really aren't high risk, and getting instantly deleted when assassins are meta isn't exhilarating at all.
that quite frankly belongs in a game where squishy ranged damage dealers exist. They just have to exist, or else someone will MAKE them exist (Full AD Pantheon, Lee, J4, etc.)
The examples you gave are all divers, because they can't get out of fights the way assassins can, and they actually have to commit to fights instead of lol-nope-ing out of their own engages if something goes wrong. Those divers have to take intelligent fights or else they are screwed unlike zed or leblanc with free blinks back out of fights. The mobility profiles of panth, lee, j4 make them fundamentally different from assassins, and with that distinction they don't suffer the same game health problems that assassins create.
Jaygo412 votesWhy souldn't splitpushing be a viable strategy? Sounds like you can't deal with assassins.
I'm not asking for them to be AS STRONG as they were in season 3. As I said, there's no way they'll ever reach that point ever again considering that their burst patterns are lengthened. THey just don't do any damage right now. Simple as that.
EDIT: ADDITIONALLY, realize that people will just create assassins out of what they have. You might as well cater to the fantasy and make a champ designed to do that.
You're arguing something that will never be corrected. Whether you like or not, assassins are here to stay. And because they're here and they're not significant game problems or have blatantly awfully designed kits (i.e. Yasuo, Kalista, etc.) they should have a place at the table.
AMYS GRAVE1 votesWhy souldn't splitpushing be a viable strategy?
LOL what? You said and i quote ...
Grouping up and just smashing into each other is a boring strategy
and split pushing is the counter to that strategy, which isn't an assassin playstyle, it has nothing to do with assassins. Trynd, Fiora, Yi, Nasus, etc... break the group and teamfight strategy and that has nothing to do with assassins. I never said splitpushing shouldn't be a strategy but assassins have nothing to do with that. Assassins are designed to pick off enemies who aren't grouping, and if you pick an assassin the enemy will be more likely to group up to avoid getting picked off by the assassin promoting the playstyle that you claim you dont like. Decide what you want then get back to me.
Jaygo413 votesIt's not that i don't like it, it's just the only strategy and you can't punish it as hard with assassins.
You're going off on a tangent. Buff assassins. They don't do damage. They're easily outplayed. Exhaust, Rod of Ages, and Melee/Ranged dynamics are the root cause of these problems.
Don't turn this into a different discussion, please. Assassins are garbage.
AMYS GRAVE1 votesIt's not that i don't like it, it's just the only strategy
That's just ridiculous.
You're going off on a tangent.
I'm really not, you brought up splitpushing.
Buff assassins. They don't do damage.
Agreed.
They're easily outplayed.
Depends on the assassin.
Exhaust, Rod of Ages, and Melee/Ranged dynamics are the root cause of these problems.
They really aren't.
Don't turn this into a different discussion, please.
Again, you changed the subject.
Assassins are garbage.
Yeah, they are, but asking for them to be meta again is begging for trouble.
FiddlesOnTheRoof3 votesAgreed. Everyone bitching about ADCs being strong right now are the same people who don't want assassins or divers to be strong. If assassins were a bit more healthy, maybe the ADC's could be dealt with. Just my thoughts...
DoktorKaiser1 votesUhmmm excuse me I played Soraka 4 times in my life and it was this week, you really shouldnt be looking at want champ is painted on my profile but rather look into my mastery system. My main main is Orianna, but I also main Viktor, Jax, Sion, Ezreal and Brand.
And A Real Hiero6 votesGood
Astôlfo5 votesThey are shit.
datfatguy2 votesI honestly feel like these reworks didn't work too well. Those changes to Zed did jackshit, while Fizz still isn't able to carry so hard. Akali's changes were alright but she still gets shit on. I also don't really think that the bigger reworks worked well. LeBlanc is alright but complicated, same with Katarina. Talon still gets countered easily and I feel like he is shit. And Rengar is still doing what he should but gets countered really easily. So in conclusion, NEP2UNE is right; 'They are shit.'
FiddlesOnTheRoof1 votesLB feels good, so of course she's getting nerfed. Fizz is really strong. Kha'zix is good too. Aside from that, they suck. And I don't really play assassins, so I'm not QQ'ing.
Dominick Destine1 votes
Akali is SO HOT1 votesya