There ARE other drakes besides infernal indeed, but

Tychusfindlay918··30 votes·13,466 views

Can we please address the fact that ocean becomes near useless after the 10 minute mark?

Yes the OG ocean drake was most definitely overpowered and kind of whacky with how its healing mechanic operated, but this new one is useless outside of laning phase (aka ocean will only be somewhat worth of an objective if its the first spawn and you can take it relatively early).

Outside of lane the ocean serves no purpose other than to increase burn from when elder eventually comes around.

This was the release ocean drake buff:

"Every 18 / 12 / 6 seconds, restores 10% of missing health and 10% of missing mana."

Then came patch 6.10

"Ocean Drake Now restores health and mana only when out of combat with champions and towers.

Regeneration effects often go unnoticed by their owners, but the Ocean Drake buff is large and spiky enough that players feel the individual ticks. The occasional lucky tick right before a killing blow, however, was adding more frustration than gameplay and often leaving players wondering if their damage hadn’t gone through. Tying the regen to stay out-of-combat allows more counterplay to opponents, allowing them to feel less like they’re fighting a rising tide. Of regeneration. UPDATEDMark of the Ocean Drake SEA GOD’S CLAIM Restores 4/8/12% of your missing health and mana every 8 seconds if not damaged by a champion or tower in the last 5 seconds"

The heal is stronger but the out of combat essentially forces it to be relevant only in lane phase where occasional trades are made. The heal is still nowhere near as strong as something like a warmogs (as it should never be) but its too weak to matter in teamfight phases where essentially the winner of the fight tends to come out massively ahead or ahead enough to shove the defending team into their base.

The reason people take infernal drake so seriously is because it's ALWAYS useful.

It's useful in trades. It's useful in teamfight phase. Hell it's useful in objective control even if not to the degree that mountain drake is. It's always damn useful, it is NEVER useless.

Cloud drake used to operate only out of combat like ocean did. What happened? It was near useless. Riot changed it so now it's ALWAYS useful. How? They struck a middle ground by allowing cloud to activate even during combat, but getting its full effects only when out of combat.

Why can't this be done with ocean drake? If it's too strong out of combat then it can completely warp lane phase mechanics while still being useless as hell outside of lane (as it is right now where if a team gets an early first spawn ocean mana becomes literally irrelevant for most champions). If it's too strong in combat then it completely warps the game all the time (old ocean drake where in a fight someone can randomly gain a huge chunk of health and mana out of nowhere).

What if we weakened the heal in combat but allowed it to still be active in combat?

what if in combat it went from 4/8/12% missing heal and mana restore to 1/2/3% missing heal and mana restore? And then to compensate for it's added strength (if it even needs any compensation at its current power level as a drake buff) you could always make the out of heal 3/6/9% so it operates on the EXACT same calculations as the cloud drake (which gains 300% efficacy when out of combat).

40 Comments

Warlord Rhinark9 votes

Just remove RNG drake already.

Literally nobody I know likes them.

And I have yet to see someone on the boards who likes them either.

ZackTheWaffleMan2 votes

I like them because they're cool and I really like Cloud, but no, I don't think they're healthy for the game.

IcyPepper4 votes

I like them. That makes two of us so far.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

RNG in a "competitive" game is definitely the right choice. As we can see western ranked playerbase dropped more than half. Viewership is down. Legit overwatch t 3 am EU time zone has more viewers than MSI league. And i dont fucking care about the bazillion chinese viewbots at msi and how people watch because of loot items riot is free to make competitive more attractive to watch too. All these gimmicks of plants, rng drakes and other stuff has dumbed the game down so hard. Powercreep did the rest where even if you are at 6 items someone with 2 oneshots you anyways when u used to be a god because "everyone needs to get their power fantasy". No you dont get your power fantasy if you int your game but whatever. League is third placed rn with 50k viewers despite gosu, iwd, midbeast and a lot of other big names streaming. Makes me happy because the only way league will become great again is sinking numbers in players and viewers.

YumaS2Astral5 votes

There are a lot more situations where you aren't in combat with enemy champions than you might think.

For example, when you are taking objectives, splitpushing, or just staying out of range from the enemy team.

Handy Sandy 4 votes

It's useful for those poke wars when you're trying to get an inhibitor turret for like 3 minutes. It also helps when rotating between lanes instead of recalling and then coming back to the other lane.

Terozu3 votes

Ocean drake is useful for contesting objectives and allows you to be ready to trade again while the enemy is backing.

AirKingNeo2 votes

why would anyone want ocean drake when poke comps haven't been viable for over 3 years? maybe riot should stop promoting teamfight deathball comps by nerfing tanks for once.

Warlord Rhinark11 votes

poke comps haven't been viable for over 3 years

Bro do you even Brand support?

DoktorKaiser1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q2cImtJZ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-03T19:23:14.845+0000)

Bro do you even Brand support?

Brand has more of a "suicide bomber" playstyle rather than poke.

AirKingNeo2 votes

has brand been picked in pro play in the past 3 years?

Warlord Rhinark9 votes

No but he sure does see a lot of solo que play.

ShaolinToilet2 votes

He has average playrate stats for support im not sure where you're getting your data from other than bias.

Terozu1 votes

Yes and his mid lane play rates are dumpster low.

Zane Zephyr9 votes

Yes actually

Likkrit picked him last year during worlds and it actually drew bans too

AirKingNeo1 votes

wow one person that means poke comps are viable xdd

Zane Zephyr10 votes

You asked if he was played in pro play and I answered your question, which was yes.

Z3Sleeper4 votes

I thought poke comps were artillery/longer range damage. I think Brand is more just standard mid-range.

Not saying he isn't good for poking, just not as safe.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

It would probably help bring them back. I wouldn't like that though so I'm fine with Ocean buffs not happening.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

it's almost like ocean drake should spawn prior to 10 minutes... but that'd be just silly. everyone knows drake doesnt get taken until 25 minutes in. after baron right?

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

Can we please address the fact that ocean becomes near useless after the 10 minute mark?

Yes the OG ocean drake was most definitely overpowered and kind of whacky with how its healing mechanic operated, but this new one is useless outside of laning phase (aka ocean will only be somewhat worth of an objective if its the first spawn and you can take it relatively early).

Outside of lane the ocean serves no purpose other than to increase burn from when elder eventually comes around.

This was the release ocean drake buff:

"Every 18 / 12 / 6 seconds, restores 10% of missing health and 10% of missing mana."

Then came patch 6.10

"Ocean Drake Now restores health and mana only when out of combat with champions and towers.

Regeneration effects often go unnoticed by their owners, but the Ocean Drake buff is large and spiky enough that players feel the individual ticks. The occasional lucky tick right before a killing blow, however, was adding more frustration than gameplay and often leaving players wondering if their damage hadn’t gone through. Tying the regen to stay out-of-combat allows more counterplay to opponents, allowing them to feel less like they’re fighting a rising tide. Of regeneration. UPDATEDMark of the Ocean Drake SEA GOD’S CLAIM Restores 4/8/12% of your missing health and mana every 8 seconds if not damaged by a champion or tower in the last 5 seconds"

The heal is stronger but the out of combat essentially forces it to be relevant only in lane phase where occasional trades are made. The heal is still nowhere near as strong as something like a warmogs (as it should never be) but its too weak to matter in teamfight phases where essentially the winner of the fight tends to come out massively ahead or ahead enough to shove the defending team into their base.

The reason people take infernal drake so seriously is because it's ALWAYS useful.

It's useful in trades. It's useful in teamfight phase. Hell it's useful in objective control even if not to the degree that mountain drake is. It's always damn useful, it is NEVER useless.

Cloud drake used to operate only out of combat like ocean did. What happened? It was near useless. Riot changed it so now it's ALWAYS useful. How? They struck a middle ground by allowing cloud to activate even during combat, but getting its full effects only when out of combat.

Why can't this be done with ocean drake? If it's too strong out of combat then it can completely warp lane phase mechanics while still being useless as hell outside of lane (as it is right now where if a team gets an early first spawn ocean mana becomes literally irrelevant for most champions). If it's too strong in combat then it completely warps the game all the time (old ocean drake where in a fight someone can randomly gain a huge chunk of health and mana out of nowhere).

What if we weakened the heal in combat but allowed it to still be active in combat?

what if in combat it went from 4/8/12% missing heal and mana restore to 1/2/3% missing heal and mana restore? And then to compensate for it's added strength (if it even needs any compensation at its current power level as a drake buff) you could always make the out of heal 3/6/9% so it operates on the EXACT same calculations as the cloud drake (which gains 300% efficacy when out of combat).

Personally I love having ocean drake on my top laners and mid laners at any point in the game. Being bale to back off from a fight and return to it wiht more hp and mana is great, whether I'm playing a top lane juggernaut, or a midlane mage/AP assassin. They never really stop being relevent as it's % hp and mana, meaning the more I have the more I get back. For champions that don't build warmoggs or get donated red buffs its really handy.

Neptunia xoxo1 votes

What lol all drakes are hella good even ocean. Even just one ocean is really good lol.

Zed genius1 votes

Screw Infernal, I am willing to throw my 2/2 5th game of promos for the Cloud Dragon

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

How is it useless when it can make all the difference after a big fight where you want to continue to take objectives?

Zane Zephyr1 votes

The only way that happens is if you manage to get 3 oceans early on, which normally doesn't happen and if you do have 3 then that usually means you're ahead enough to not need them anyway

Velasan1 votes

To the contrary, wind and ocean dragons win a lot of games. They allow faster rotations and healing back up to full during those rotations as well as mitigating champion resource issues. If anything infernals are a bit over rated since there is less chance to have multiple infernals in a row. I've only ever had two games since elemental drakes where one team got 3 infernals. Mountain drake is also pretty over rated. Objectives already die easily and it's more important to be able to push your enemies off the objectives than simply to take them a little bit faster.

Having said that all elemental drakes are good. They should probably update infernals to give burn damage or something similar rather than a straight damage buff.

Sergeant Wea1 votes

i actually really like it ever since the mana changes- find that late game teamfights are better since I can sustain thru a lot more casts. I agree tho, it probably needs a buff

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Infernal isn't universally useful though. It's absolutely useless on tanks or most supports. Not a single tank builds ad or ap so they get nothing out of it and most enchanter supports get what? Maybe an extra 20 AP after the second one? Even ADCs before this patch didn't get a whole lot from it until 5th item since the only AD they bought was an IE. Double zeal and boots? 0 of that stat. It was only until like 30 minutes where gathering storm did something and they were working on a GA or Scimitar that it actually did something.

Tychusfindlay9181 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q2cImtJZ,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-06-04T01:11:46.479+0000)

Infernal isn't universally useful though. It's absolutely useless on tanks or most supports. Not a single tank builds ad or ap so they get nothing out of it and most enchanter supports get what? Maybe an extra 20 AP after the second one? Even ADCs before this patch didn't get a whole lot from it until 5th item since the only AD they bought was an IE. Double zeal and boots? 0 of that stat. It was only until like 30 minutes where gathering storm did something and they were working on a GA or Scimitar that it actually did something.

Even if it were (and it never is) only 1 ad/AP, it is automatically always useful.

Ocean is legitimately useless in combat.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

So is mountain dragon? What is your point?

remakoro1 votes

I guess thats why Ocean drakes have better winrate than infernal...

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Yes the OG ocean drake was most definitely overpowered and kind of whacky with how its healing mechanic operated

at one point at that time, i had a game with a triple ocean drake and the old rift herald buff (the one that rgants % damage reduction against champions) on garen. that shit was glorious.

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