What is a tank possibly supposed to build against Black Cleaver?

PopcornBunni·Apr 19, 2018·1 votes·1,082 views

invalidates the first three items a tank buys, then goes on to increase in value with every item the tank buys after.

Am I supposed to swap lanes?

10 Comments

MalakApr 19, 20182 votes

you could build an armor/hp item like randuins, then if they have a lot of armor shred (or are currently building it) you can get warmogs which will heal you back to full out of combat and make you very hard to kill

redniwediSApr 19, 20181 votes

Depends on the tank. Make a list of champions and we can make some suggestions.

PopcornBunniApr 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Depends on the tank. Make a list of champions and we can make some suggestions.

Shen Poppy Nautilus Malphite I've been trying but just eat ass under my own tower early then have my entire build invalidated by a single item.

ValiantKillerApr 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I've been trying but just eat ass under my own tower early then have my entire build invalidated by a single item.

And what champion you was against ? That always matter what to build. Cause if you playing tanker against urgot or trundle or daruis, good luck there no hope since they are tank shreders

PopcornBunniApr 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

And what champion you was against ? That always matter what to build. Cause if you playing tanker against urgot or trundle or daruis, good luck there no hope since they are tank shreders

I listed the common ones I have the most issue with above but I'll repost -- Garen Illaoi Darius Riven Urgot Renekton Jayce Zed

The rest don't build black cleaver usually but have loads of true damage or inherite shred that fulfil the same role: Yasuo Camille Fiora Gangplank

ValiantKillerApr 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I listed the common ones I have the most issue with above but I'll repost --

The rest don't build black cleaver usually but have loads of true damage or inherite shred that fulfil the same role:

Well Urgot Illaoi Darius Trundle Renekton Fiora Camille are meant to destroy tankers so there no play around them except by being smart in trades and late game you just frontline that hope his backline able to make damage to kill them before they kill you. Jayce is lane bully that rekt any melee champion on top in general during lane phase but as your team carries get stronger to kill him when you tank.

Mostly item 3075 item 3083 item 3373 are your best options in special 1v1 trade but ofcourse warmog mean you need to keep disengage when you low so you can recover and back for them.

While Yasuo and Gangplank get counter hard by item 3143 and item 3075 cause both of them lower their heal and crit damage.

The idea here you need to farm safe as possible try not to make losing trades with them, since you playing tanker which mean you need to tank for your team and no making alot of damage, at the end of the day Poppy is your best option against Yasuo and Fiora dashes due to her kit while Malphite is the solid pick against attack speed champions like Yasuo Gangplank Urgot while able to poke back.

MagicFlyingLlamaApr 19, 20181 votes

item 3075 screws with a lot of cleaver users as badly as they screw with you by building cleaver.

Some basic math should show if armor or health is more or less effective in a given situation, though.

PopcornBunniApr 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

screws with a lot of cleaver users as badly as they screw with you by building cleaver.

Some basic math should show if armor or health is more or less effective in a given situation, though.

Thornmail doesn't help much since most top lane fighters damage comes from abilities unfortunately. Thinking in particular of Garen Illaoi Darius Riven Urgot , of which only renekton is impacted by the greivious wounds (illaoi just autos on spirits or a single W doing %health damage which ignores armor), and none of which care about the 12-20 chip damage. It just feels really hopeless. I end up 50+ cs behind because I can't leave my tower and thusly end up 2-3 levels behind all game.

HalcyonDwellerApr 19, 20181 votes

Against opponents who you cannot fight, it is still possible to win lane. You have to learn minion wave control, so that you can gain a CS lead on that opponent without having to fight them.

Not every top-lane can be fought. Sometimes you have to assume the position and just farm up for late game.

Edit: here's some champ specific advice.

Garen - Don't take trades with him unless you have a consistent way to harass him and keep his passive from healing him up. If you have to fight him, do it with a minion advantage. Also Adaptive helm is an MR item, but it reduces repeated ability damage so you can really ruin his Spin's effectiveness by buying it, provided that adaptive helm will be useful against his team later in the game.

Illaoi - Thornmail is still really good against her because she relies on tentacles to heal, if she attacks you then she doesn't get to heal as much with them. Plus her W (at least I think it's her W) requires her to auto-attack you in order to make the tentacles smack you, so you're pretty much guaranteed to give her grievous wounds. As for her soul-ripping ability, you just have to get good at dodging it or immediately run out of range so she can't use it for damage on you. I know she's kind of unfair but that's what we've got vs her. Also stacking HP as others have mentioned is really good. Warmogs can heal you back up after she gets a successful trade with you.

Darius - He's going to use his W, which forces him to auto. So yes, Thornmail is good. So is any item which will help you to kite him for your team late game. Stuff like Frozen Mallet, Iceborn Gauntlet, or Randuin's Omen will help a lot to keep him off your teammates. Additionally stacking health again is useful, doubly so because his ultimate does true damage if he gets full stacks on you, which he will do if you stick around to fight him. Against Darius you really shouldn't be sticking around for extended trades, instead you should be baiting out his Spin and possibly his hook as well, then trading briefly with him while those are on cooldown. Iceborn gauntlet is especially good for this because the slow field left behind will keep him from following you to try and make the trade last long enough for his Spin to come back up off cooldown.

Riven - also auto-attack reliant (her passive is a big part of her damage), so again Thornmail is good. She's also susceptible to slows from things like Randuin's and Iceborn Gauntlet because if she is slowed then she has to use her abilities for movement instead of for damage. Also again, adaptive helm will reduce damage from her Q and her passive, if it's a good item to build vs her team. Positioning should be easy, stay some distance away and predict when she will advance on you, bait out her mobility and then either walk away or pounce on her. After her mobility gets used up she's a sitting duck for a brief period of time. And getting movement speed will help a lot as well because you can use it to kite her and force her to use more of her abilities to reach you before she can attempt to trade with you. When she's doing her slashes watch for the first and second cast, then play more carefully after that, because she won't be able to CC you easily until she gets to her 3rd cast.

Urgot - I dunno, with urgot I haven't had many chances to fight him yet. But I'm fairly certain that positioning so he cant use multiple shotguns on you is really important. Stacking health should help vs him, since he reduces your armor with another ability anyways, and don't take risks against him. If you don't have vision to see if a gank is coming or if you don't have much HP then it's not a good idea to stay in lane against him because of his ult. You can build Warmog's to help with this because the sustain will help you to heal back up if he gets a good trade on you.

Renekton - Basically you just have to make it so he has to blow his stuff to get close enough to fight you. Stay behind your minions as much as possible so he can't dash in and back out. You want him to have to double-dash to reach you, that way he can't escape if you try to trade back. Stacking HP is important against renekton because he's mostly about the base damage anyway. if you can survive his burst and sustain up afterwards then he's not a threat.

OleandervineApr 19, 20181 votes

HP is the best counter to armor shred. Even if your armor is dropping, they still would be required to plow through mountains of HP to kill you. That's also why it's good against true damage and magic damage - armor just reduces damage taken, but if you've got loads of HP, it still will take a substantial amount of time and effort to take you out.