Is the Big Size Update Coming Soon?

Meep Man·Nov 2, 2015·89 votes·32,675 views

I remember somewhere Riot said that they wanted to adjust the size of champions to better represent their actual sizes, such as making Tristana not as tall as some human champions and such.

135 Comments

RiotQuquroonNov 3, 201546 votes

It's coming when it's ready, which maaaay be sooner than later. Trying for before the end of the year.

The actual work itself is just changing a few numbers around (and maybe doing a little art polish), but developing averages and standards takes a bit longer. How big is too big, how small is too small, etc? How relative should characters be to their 'actual' size (spoilers: in-game comes first)? How much should in-game durability relate to character size?

We've made really good progress on these questions, so I want to get them to you as soon as possible. If this tides you over at all, here's an example of one of the more requested size changes. As a small test run, she'll be going out in 5.22.

http://i.imgur.com/ldJfS9X.png

JacknifeNov 3, 20155 votes

I'm glad this is happening, but will it affect hitboxes at all? I'd really prefer the highest potential damage dealer not be hard to click in the fringe cases of enemies crowding together, etc.

RiotQuquroonNov 3, 201527 votes

Clickboxes/Hitboxes are affected to a small degree, but nothing that should be horribly noticeable with the amount characters are being affected.

Aside from Malphite. His should be pretty clear.

Raid Boss MordeNov 3, 20158 votes

Malphite.. that's good news. He should be Sion-sized! What about Mordekaiser? Could we be seeing him around Sion's size? He's smaller than most humans :(

Final Raid BossNov 3, 20152 votes

and fix his damn helmet, oh and hey look a raid boss

Raid Boss MordeNov 3, 20152 votes

But... you're the final raid boss... bows down

NumotNov 3, 20154 votes

Actually Morde used to be much bigger. Back when the game and Morde were new he towered over other champions, his really old lore even had him being 8 feet tall

Raid Boss MordeNov 3, 20153 votes

Isn't Brand just as old? Brand towers over Morde, but that could be intentional, he is some spooky vengeful spirit possessing a body (sounds so similar to Morde now)

NumotNov 3, 20152 votes

lol, Brand is a lot newer than Morde. Morde existed before we had seasons and the first time he saw real competitive play was the group stage of the first worlds when an oceanic team won there one and only game by picking Morde. Brand I want to say we didn't get until sometime in season 2? Sorry I have been playing on and off since beta so hard to keep track lol

Celio Hogane HDNov 3, 201510 votes

what are you talking about i want malphite to be the size of the full enemy map.

AkaliLouanlavongNov 3, 201513 votes

And Naut?? :)

BârdNov 3, 20156 votes

Will RekSai be getting bigger?

According to lore, her head ALONE is the size of a camel.

Silents429Nov 3, 20155 votes

Is the top one the smaller version? I barely notice the change :/

RiotQuquroonNov 3, 201512 votes

Yeah, top is the smaller one.

AzteryzNov 3, 20153 votes

can i get some insight on big daddy nautilus will he be getting looked at and if so how much bigger?

brian radNov 3, 20155 votes

{quoted}

It's coming when it's ready, which maaaay be sooner than later. Trying for before the end of the year.

The actual work itself is just changing a few numbers around (and maybe doing a little art polish), but developing averages and standards takes a bit longer. How big is too big, how small is too small, etc? How relative should characters be to their 'actual' size (spoilers: in-game comes first)? How much should in-game durability relate to character size?

We've made really good progress on these questions, so I want to get them to you as soon as possible. If this tides you over at all, here's an example of one of the more requested size changes. As a small test run, she'll be going out in 5.22.

http://i.imgur.com/ldJfS9X.png

For the love of skins, can you adjust the size of DJ Sona??? Her body is SOOO tiny, she might as well be called a yordle....

RedCycloneNov 3, 20152 votes

This Specially when the damn skin does not match her hitbox size at all, getting hooked because blitz grabbed the thin air behind you sucks

xFrostKnightxNov 3, 20153 votes

I think blitz was grabbing something behind her besides wind. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

SoultakerKatanaNov 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's coming when it's ready, which maaaay be sooner than later. Trying for before the end of the year.

The actual work itself is just changing a few numbers around (and maybe doing a little art polish), but developing averages and standards takes a bit longer. How big is too big, how small is too small, etc? How relative should characters be to their 'actual' size (spoilers: in-game comes first)? How much should in-game durability relate to character size?

We've made really good progress on these questions, so I want to get them to you as soon as possible. If this tides you over at all, here's an example of one of the more requested size changes. As a small test run, she'll be going out in 5.22.

http://i.imgur.com/ldJfS9X.png

how about jax and kayle they are smaller than tristana lol

KrinuNov 3, 20153 votes

Kayle's a bit weird because of how the camera works. In terms of model scale, she's tiny - maybe two-thirds the size of most humans, and on par with or smaller than some of the Yordle characters. In terms of actual in-game silhouette footprint, she's on the larger side because of her wings and her position above the ground (and thus closer to the camera).

Edit: This is REALLY visible if you have her land for her /dance emote.

Athenes LuluNov 3, 20158 votes

Jinx is a giant compared to Pantheon.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-R3CDnRejd_M/Vh163qjOmvI/AAAAAAAAytI/DFmolCBSxqk/s1600/56563653.jpg

Just a fun fact and something to consider.

Valderis VandalaNov 3, 20152 votes

Good luck, I hope all the yordles will come out adorably small.

Also when is Lulu getting a bit of love for her default model? When will she get a Tristana makeover and look fucking amazing? I love how Tristana's model looks and feels, her hair, her floppy ears, her movements, everything about it looks amazing, when will Lulu get that kind of attention?

RiotMeddlerNov 3, 201519 votes

Won't be in 5.22 at the very least. Hoping we might be able to get changes out later this year, lot of other stuff underway though so possible that work ends up getting delayed.

In terms of scope of work we'll probably be looking at small, to somewhat small, changes to the sizes of around 30 champs, plus some individual skins that don't match their base well (e.g. Battlecast Kog's huge, Marquis Vlad's tiny). Changes should be noticeable when compared side by side, but certainly won't completely redefine a champion's perceived size (Malphite's will probably get noticeably bigger for example, but he's not going to be rivalling the biggest champs in the game).

CuixNov 3, 20153 votes

{quoted}

he's not going to be rivaling the biggest champs in the game.

Why not?

RiotMeddlerNov 3, 201516 votes

We want really enormous size to be linked with high innate tankiness. That's why our biggest champs are all really tanky when they're that large (Cho'gath with a lot of stacks, Mega Gnar). Tanks in general should be large (hence increasing Malph's size somewhat), but we want extreme size to convey some additional information as well. It's not a perfect correlation of course (a Rammus with a full tank build might be much tankier than an AP stacking Cho for example), but it's a useful means of gameplay communication.

CuixNov 3, 20153 votes

That seems... really limiting, thematically, but I guess it makes some sense.

Celio Hogane HDNov 3, 20152 votes

how is limiting? rammus is small.

CuixNov 3, 20153 votes

That's exactly what I mean. Leona, Shen, Rammus, and Braum are all human-sized in lore, but are just as much tanks as Cho, Malph, or Sejuani. However, if size correlates to tankiness, then there's a problem there.

NemeBroNov 3, 20155 votes

{quoted}

That's exactly what I mean. Leona, Shen, Rammus, and Braum are all human-sized in lore, but are just as much tanks as Cho, Malph, or Sejuani. However, if size correlates to tankiness, then there's a problem there.

Braum is gigantic in the lore, possibly the largest of the human-like champions. His model's too small IMHO. It should be more around the size of Sion's.

My Waifu VanillaNov 3, 20157 votes

"Stand behind Braum!" - Braum

Sir, it is impossible not to now!

NemeBroNov 3, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Chocola,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pw2gAPN8,comment-id=000c0000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-03T03:24:25.130+0000)

"Stand behind Braum!" -

Sir, it is impossible not to now!

Fair enough, I accept that gameplay balance might require an acceptable break from reality. Like how Vel'koz is relatively small in-game, when in the lore he's utterly enormous. Bigger than Cho'gath even.

7ha7guy777Nov 3, 20152 votes

Vel'Koz's hitbox is actually quite large. Building a banshee's veil will reveal it.

KING OF MASKSNov 3, 20153 votes

...no. Sion is a colossus, Braum is just a big guy.

If you want actual references: Trials of the Poro for Braum, and Sion's splash (which is from the perspective of Helmet Bro, a regular dude). Poros seem to be around the size of small dogs, and by that standard Braum is just a large human. Sion, on the other hand, dwarfs Helmet Bro (in the splash you can see his hand compared to Sion's leg; massive difference there).

So yeah, no. Braum doesn't come close to Sion's size.

SpoofghoulNov 3, 20152 votes

rammus finds that ok

RiotMeddlerNov 3, 201517 votes

It's a deliberate choice to favor gameplay over thematics certainly, in the same way that some champions are larger than they'd be if we were set on going for a more realistic look. Compare Annie's size to other normal human characters for example, she'd be much smaller, and therefore harder to select or hit with spells, if she was a more realistic height. LoL's a moderately stylized game though, so that sort of discrepancy's not too jarring generally thankfully.

Chromatic EagleNov 3, 20156 votes

But my immersion!

Old Man RivenNov 3, 20154 votes

But what about Sion? He's enormous, probably one of the biggest champions by default, and yet, he's not "innately" tanky - he has his shield and hp growth, but I mean, that's it - the shield has almost a more useful offensive component than defensive one, and the health scaling, while appreciable, takes a long time to be such.

I understand about some of the champions, but I mean, generally, "tankiness" means mitigation or above-average, natural defensive stats. I just think Malphite, who even has an offensive ability that scales with armor, and a very appreciable passive shield, and is an incredible disruptor, one of the key features of a "tank," should be pretty large.

I grant you, he also just needs a flat-out VU or maybe an "MTU," similar to what Maokai got. He certainly doesn't need anything like GP or Sion, but he needs a much better model and MAYBE better animations for his AA and ult - since he now has a skin that actually gives his ult a "wind-down" animation (the fist slam) - also as I frequently say to Riot Whist (well, frequently in that it's literally come up in every twitter exchange between us) - he needs a turret-striking animation!

VerdeNov 3, 20152 votes

Shouldn't Leona grow a little in size then? She's a Tank after all. A Support, yeah, but she's a Tank too. Also Graves is shorter than most female champions in game (even shorter than actual Tristana I think). Get him some hormones.

Leu07Nov 3, 20154 votes

is jinx gonna be part of this size update?...she is really big I always pictured her like tiny and she is bigger than leona or diana o,o

Chromatic EagleNov 3, 20155 votes

He's supposed to be a mountain. I'm not even sure how he was designed in the first place. Throwing a mountain at people should do a lot more damage imo.

This is tongue-in-cheek.

darkdillNov 3, 20153 votes

Leona isn't THAT big. And yes, there's innuendo there.

Robert SmithNov 3, 20152 votes

If you want size to show how tanky someone is mind updating Rammus to fit this? I know when you use his W it shows that but other than that there is nothing showing that he has a lot of armor and is there fore harder to kill or is packing a harder punch. Maybe adding more spikes that scale with armor?

junglerboy16Nov 3, 20155 votes

Yeah, lore-wise he is one of the biggest champs in the game (possibly larger than Cho'gath depending on how many stacks Cho is at in his splash).

Son of ShadesNov 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Why not?

yeah honestly, why the fuck not lol

Ghostvoider RickNov 2, 201512 votes

erhem...Titan of the Depths...Nautilus demands larger size...

CubedJusticeNov 2, 201518 votes

Imagine if it were like the cinematic.

Ghostvoider RickNov 2, 20154 votes

LET NAUTILUS BE NAUTILUS (Give him the size he needs to fulfill his title is all I'm wishing for, although the cinematic version could be a bit scary)

Lord BoltrixNov 2, 20156 votes

Mordekaiser