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Could you guys please disable Garen until you fix him?

FioraWillCarry··3 votes·898 views

This has been an issue for a while now and I though it would have been addressed by now but apparently it isn't going to be. Since that patch where Darius, Garen etc were buffed and the new tank items were added, Garen has been a serious problem. I know people complain about Yasuo and Vayne etc being too strong but even so they are more than manageable. But Garen is a whole different story. Every single game I've seen him in, he can dive entire teams 1v5 under their turrets, kill at least 2 and leave with half health by mid game with just 2 tanks items.

You might be tempted to think that this can be countered by not feeding him. Problem is, since they buffed his E, his farming is sooo good now that he doesn't even need kills or to even know how to last hit properly. He can just spam his E and farm very good. It also helps that he isn't gated by mana or energy. Its been my observation that no matter what happens, Garen is going to dominate the mid to late game and there is no way to stop this. The only way I've seen teams win vs a team that has Garen is if every one on that team manages to feed like crazy and end up insanely far behind in gold and objectives. If the team does even slightly good, its an auto win. The only other way to win is to have like a fed Vayne or Yasuo on your team, basically someone fed that does %hp or critical strikes as the majority of their damage.

With out a fed Vayne or Yasuo, it woud take an entire team to bring him down by mid game and the old adage of focusing the adc/apc doesn't work because even with only tank items, he will still kill off your team while you're focusing their backline damage dealers. And if you trying focusing him, your entire team will blow all their abilities and CDs and be helpless vs their damage dealers, and guess what, 8 out of 10 times, Garen still lives.

Please could someone deal with this. It really is no fun at all to play against.

25 Comments

DeathBurst3 votes

Garen is very strong in low divisions because people don't know how to react. And he is objectively on the strong side of balance, at the moment. But sorry, he is not as strong as you make it look like... And asking for the champ to be disabled? That's ridiculous. Warwick when he was at 80% winrate (I kid you not) was not disabled. That's what bans are for.

There was another thread recently, asking how to play against Garen. That was a much more constructive behavior than this.

Dominick Destine2 votes

[deleted]

KirynDawn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pqxJolaL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-11T22:53:11.282+0000)

... seriously? a "Nerf Garen" thread? must I do the inevitable? sigh... let's check; http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/NA/XelNiya Yep, hard bronze.

When you are able to understand game mechanics, you will realize that Garen has very exploitable weaknesses (Can be kited forever/No ranged harass) and while he is statistically powerful, that's really all he is... just a big ball of stats that runs at you face-first.

I hate garen.

Penns1 votes

If Garen can be "kited forever", so can Tahm Jinx

Dominick Destine2 votes

Tahm Kench has ranged harass, a slow, two stuns (One of them ranged) and a two-person teleport.

To argue that Garen and Tahm are equivalent in the 'able to be kited' is pure nonsense.

Penns1 votes

Tahms Q is a skillshot, his ult doesnt help getting kited, Garens Q has a slow cleanse and a 3.5 second speed boost... They kinda are

Sir Yamazuki2 votes

{quoted}

Tahms Q is a skillshot, his ult doesnt help getting kited, Garens Q has a slow cleanse and a 3.5 second speed boost... They kinda are

Tahm's Q is much better for sticking than Garen's Q, and it even helps his team catch up rather than just himself. Also, Tahm's R puts him in position to reach a target, Garen doesn't get to just pop out of no where. Also, the whole "Skill shot" argument is kind of old, it's not even difficult to land. In addition to Tahm being more reliable, he gets to be tankier than Garen, provides much more utility than Garen, brings far more cc than Garen, is actually useful when behind and gets to do as much damage as Garen without even having to build any damage at all where as Garen usually builds BC+SG.

DeathBurst1 votes

I agree, but Tahm is also pretty strong at the moment. Borderline OP. Maybe not the best example to show when someone is asking for disabling a supposedly OP champ: "Well no, look over there, there is even more OP!" ;)

FioraWillCarry2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pqxJolaL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-11T22:53:11.282+0000)

... seriously? a "Nerf Garen" thread? must I do the inevitable? sigh... let's check; http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/NA/XelNiya Yep, hard bronze.

Apologies. I'm new to the site and i really didn't read much about the guidelines for posting here. If there is some guideline or rule about bronze players not being able speak here, I'd greatly appreciate if you link me to it.

That being said.

When you are able to understand game mechanics, you will realize that Garen has very exploitable weaknesses (Can be kited forever/No ranged harass) and while he is statistically powerful, that's really all he is... just a big ball of stats that runs at you face-first.

I know I'm just a lowly bronze player who probably doesn't matter and knows absolutely nothing about anything but doesn't kiting involve being able to dance around your opponents while dealing damage and keeping out of their range ? This doesn't work with Garen. His Q combined with a Boots of Switfness gives him too much speed to be kited effectively. He'll just run straight at you with much greater movement speed. The only thing you can do then is run and hope there's a wall near by that you can flash over before he reaches you. Forgive my bronzeness.

{quoted}

just kill him then, he cant dive or farm if hes dead.

That's just the problem. How do you kill him......:(

Unpaladin1 votes

Garen's earlygame sucks now. If he isn't intentionally picked into someone and his opponent is playing a champion with a decent earlygame, then he will have a hard time and if he builds something that isn't the best-possible stats like Dead Man's Plate, he will have less stats than usual. A lot of champions can waveclear to avoid the CS difficulty too, not just Garen. Also if Garen takes Swifties as his boots, then he misses out on the benefits that other boots give outside of mitigating slows. Acknowledge this just like you acknowledge how someone has Mobi boots.

It's a general rule that whenever a Juggernaut and an immobile champion enter a room, the immobile champion is going to have a hard time. Thank Dead Man's Plate for that, not Garen. You need to itemize against them, since situations like these are the best ones to use mobility items (such as MS items, Furor enchant, Phage, Blade of the Ruined King, Youmuus and Phantom Dancer) and restraining items (such as BoRK and Rylais). If you are an assassin you have to throw yourself at him with a BoRK/BC or bust, which makes Garen good against them by default.

Garen is also an awesome champion with a great voice actor, watch out for that.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

Apologies. I'm new to the site and i really didn't read much about the guidelines for posting here. If there is some guideline or rule about bronze players not being able speak here, I'd greatly appreciate if you link me to it.

I don't remember saying Bronzies couldn't post, my argument is simple; When a bronzie is literally asking Riot to disable one of the most kitable, most exploitable-weakness characters in the game.... that's one of those times when it is due to being bronze.

I know I'm just a lowly bronze player who probably doesn't matter and knows absolutely nothing about anything but doesn't kiting involve being able to dance around your opponents while dealing damage and keeping out of their range ? This doesn't work with Garen. His Q combined with a Boots of Switfness gives him too much speed to be kited effectively. He'll just run straight at you with much greater movement speed. The only thing you can do then is run and hope there's a wall near by that you can flash over before he reaches you. Forgive my bronzeness.

You know, you could just... walk away.... yes he's faster than the average run speed with his Q and apparently boots of swiftness (Who buys those on Garen?) but you could just stun and run, or walk to your turret. Garen has no gap closer so you have an ENORMOUS amount of time to react. If you stand your ground and get shredded, that's just bad play.

Walk away or if worst comes to worst, stun and run. Or if you're playing a stun-less character, dash away... and if you're a slow moving, stunless character without a dash with low HP and armor, you're telling me a fake story.... only DPS Mord and Darius fit that criteria.

Chaotic Sage2 votes

Honestly, try playing Garen yourself. See what your opponent does that wins against you and then emulate that against other Garens.

DeathBurst2 votes

A very good advice, for all champs.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chaotic Sage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pqxJolaL,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-12T04:29:39.332+0000)

Honestly, try playing Garen yourself. See what your opponent does that wins against you and then emulate that against other Garens.

Are you joking ? I don't think there's a single player that never played Garen. He was my most played champion during my climb to level 30, before I discovered that there were more interesting champs. And yes, I did play him after the buff and I don't remember ever losing lane. I did not always get fed but it wasn't uncommon for me to bully my opponent out of cs or even pick up one or two kills. In fact I stopped playing Garen after this because I felt that by playing him too much it would make me suck really hard with other champs since you can get away with some truly ridiculous shit with Garen. I didn't want to get into that habit of thinking that it was normal to be able to dive opponents 1v2 under towers to get kills.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pqxJolaL,comment-id=000000020001,timestamp=2015-12-12T02:25:31.300+0000) You know, you could just... walk away.... yes he's faster than the average run speed with his Q and apparently boots of swiftness (Who buys those on Garen?) but you could just stun and run, or walk to your turret. Garen has no gap closer so you have an ENORMOUS amount of time to react. If you stand your ground and get shredded, that's just bad play.

Walk away or if worst comes to worst, stun and run. Or if you're playing a stun-less character, dash away... and if you're a slow moving, stunless character without a dash with low HP and armor, you're telling me a fake story.... only DPS Mord and Darius fit that criteria.

So when they group up to siege a tower are you saying we should let the tower die ? Because more often that not Garen players would run past towers straight into our team and while we're busy trying to kill him, the rest of his team is killing that tower. If other tanks like Rammus do that, we can still win the engagement if we ignore him and go straight at the siegers. We might save the towers and even kill their damage dealers with the tower's help and Rammus might get one or two of us by the end of the fight. Try this shit with Garen and you'd probably lose two teammates before you even reach them.

I know I'm only bronze and probably don't know anything but I feel this in my bones that there is something really wrong with this. I don't think any super tank should be dealing this much damage so quickly.

{quoted}

Garen is very strong in low divisions because people don't know how to react. And he is objectively on the strong side of balance, at the moment. But sorry, he is not as strong as you make it look like... And asking for the champ to be disabled? That's ridiculous. Warwick when he was at 80% winrate (I kid you not) was not disabled. That's what bans are for.

There was another thread recently, asking how to play against Garen. That was a much more constructive behavior than this.

I didn't make this thread lightly. Garen has been in this state since they buffed him which was quite a long time ago and as you guys said, I thought it was just due to my own poor bronze level skill but the more and more I see him doing these ridiculous feats, the more I'm thinking that there is something wrong him balance-wise. And if you think he's broken on SR, trying playing him in TT. Lord have mercy, he's not even fair on TT.

Also, as a side note, I don't know what goes on at SIlver or higher but in ranked at Bronze, he's 100% banned. I don't know if that should count for anything.

{quoted}

I agree, but Tahm is also pretty strong at the moment. Borderline OP. Maybe not the best example to show when someone is asking for disabling a supposedly OP champ: "Well no, look over there, there is even more OP!" ;)

Tahm Kench's tanky feats are even more ridiculous than Garen's but at least he is very kitable. I know a lot of people complain about Tahm but I don't really mind him too much to be honest. I can get around him easily enough.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

Awesome way to react to advice. Attacking people trying to help is a good way to get more active help. Good on you there. Gonna be bronze forever at that rate man.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chaotic Sage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pqxJolaL,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2015-12-12T14:17:33.939+0000)

Awesome way to react to advice. Attacking people trying to help is a good way to get more active help. Good on you there. Gonna be bronze forever at that rate man.

Who did I attack mate ? Please quote.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

I mean, it's your entire post there, no need to quote. You ignored a whole mess of helpful advice and attacked people instead, so that's all on you.

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

Play Garen yourself. If you lose, remove this thread.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

just kill him then, he cant dive or farm if hes dead.

Shonjl1 votes

I would make a very long explanation on why Garen is hardly a broken champ but I know better since the last 100 threads that people said he is and ignore anything but agreeing with them.

So long story short, he is easily kitable, just slow or stun him. If you don't have CC then why are you going at him alone? Wait to teamfight and have your allies help you out. Garen is strong since you can't really poke him down unless its very early game. So make sure you are capable of finishing the job. Also your inexperience is the biggest problem. Instead of looking up tips and trying to find out how to counter him, you just want him to disappear from the game. That is why people say

Ohh he is just a Bronzie, ignore this idiot.

Too many people complain about this game and most if not all are crappy Bronze players so their opinions are literally irrelevant. There is a reason why Riot only listens to Plat and above, since everyone else is too retarded to get real data from. People just can't seem to understand that literally like 90% of people suck that play League. League would have died off ages ago if they listened to their entire playerbase instead of the ones that actually have some real knowledge of the game.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

{quoted} So long story short, he is easily kitable, just slow or stun him. If you don't have CC then why are you going at him alone? Wait to teamfight and have your allies help you out. Garen is strong since you can't really poke him down unless its very early game. So make sure you are capable of finishing the job. Also your inexperience is the biggest problem. Instead of looking up tips and trying to find out how to counter him, you just want him to disappear from the game. That is why people say

I've observed that CC isn't that effective. What happens is that you get time to deal a little more damage to him but when the CC wears off, he's back to doing "Garen" things. Also, his Q clears of soft CC like slows. Using CC on him is a waste. He's usually too tanky to burst down by any significant degree and while you're hitting him, his team is hitting you. And unlike other tanks like Rammus, if you try to dive past him to get their damage dealers, you could very well die before even getting close on account of the amount of damage he does for a tank.

Shonjl1 votes

Meh take it for what you will, I used to main Garen before his rework and well after his rework and I can safely say he is hardly a god. He can indeed be exploded even when he is tanky and if he builds more damage than BC, he is sacrificing a lot on his tanky side, making him even easier to kill.

People just make it sound like Garen can just Q right through 5 people and kill someone before he dies. That is just purely false, if that Garen was fed as hell sure, but any champ if fed as hell can do that. If that was just a normal Garen, he would evaporate before the teamfight even started and the enemy would be down 1 champ already.

Also FYI Q only cancels slows, and only ones that are on before he does it, if you slow him after his Q he still recieves and and is basically screwed for 5-10 seconds before he can Q again.

Like I said, I can't really be bothered to really try with these threads anymore, people just are too dumb to be blunt if they think Garen of all things is so hard to play against when ALL he is is Q E R, with once in a blue moon a W in there.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

And for for all the people talking about bronze this and bronze that. I'm getting the distinct impression that this community has an elitist mentality pervading its membership. As I said, I'm rather new here so I don't really know what the culture is here but if this is the attitude here then, I'd really like to know so I can avoid coming here with my "lowly bronze know nothing problems".

I'm a casual player. I don't really have any aspirations to reach Diamond or anything as I don't really have that kind of time to invest into a video game. I don't even play ranked that often. I play mostly normals. I play for fun, and while I don't mind trying to learn how to be better, I don't think a game should be this frustrating even for a bronze player. You Diamond players are a very small but very skilled percentage of the player base and I have no doubt that my complaints are unwarranted in your eyes but bare in mind that to reach your level of skill is an enormous investment of time. Most of us don't have that luxury. We just want to have fun and having a Garen in your game on the enemy team is the very opposite of fun.

Colgate Minuette1 votes

But garen can't "be kited" because he has multiple ways to catch up to you. All he has to do is use his speed boost (you know the thing that silences you once he catches up to you, yea that thing) to catch you. And he will catch you, he's much faster then you using that ability. Furthermore if he isn't he just builds a forglory and catches up whal building tank stats and helping his team in fights. Once he does catch up to you he just silences you, uses his E to damage half your health for no reason without building any damage items and because you're silenced you can't escape it. Then he ults you executing you and if you're unlucky enough to be his "target" then he will do like 1000 true damage to you for no good fucking reason so yea, he's OP.

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