Thank you Riot, for adding Iron tier.

FioraWillCarry·Dec 9, 2018·87 votes·26,728 views

I just ran into an actual Iron player for the first time since this tier was added and I gotta say, Riot did something right. This dude fed his ass off playing a counter to my pick. No Fiora should ever go 3-0 vs Teemo. The difference between my skill and his was as large as the Atlantic Ocean. Before the new tiers were added, this poor noob would have been placed in Silver to feed his ass off and frustrate the hell out of Silver players. Ranked next year is gonna be great. Let new players start in Iron, not Silver. This will make them happy, because they can play vs other noobs and take their time to learn. And it would make us happy because we have to worry less about 2-17 bot lanes. Everyone wins.

101 Comments

DuskDaUmbreonDec 9, 201880 votes

Actually, it's fairly common to see people do poorly on counters versus champions.

They pick a counter knowing it's a counter, but without knowing why it's a counter or without knowing how to play the counter.

Z3SleeperDec 10, 201810 votes

That's literally everyone that tries to counterpick a good Riven.

DuskDaUmbreonDec 10, 20187 votes

Actually...since one of Riven's biggest counters is Garen, who you can't really do poorly on unless you're just terrible at the game, I actually doubt that happens much with Riven.

I'm more talking...Oh, I dunno...Maybe Ekko into Viktor. Toplane. Maybe played at some big event or something by some rookie player on a NA team...

Moody PDec 10, 20184 votes

Garen doesn't counter Riven.

Frosted TipsDec 10, 20183 votes

??? One of the most classic counters.

Moody PDec 10, 20183 votes

Riven has all of the agency in the lane. Garen can deny sloppy aggression but he has to play pure reactionary and easily gets out roamed as well.

It's not a counter. Riven controls the pace of the lane

Auz the RipperDec 10, 20187 votes

Garen has free trades and far better innate sustain. You just max silence, back hand her then back off whenever she tries to farm. Hard to roam when she’s under leveled and under farmed

Moody PDec 10, 20182 votes

Wrong on every count. Riven controls the tempo of the lane

kargishDec 10, 20188 votes

What an excellent counterargument.

Dr DogDec 10, 20181 votes

i mean if you see riv just pick kennen lol

BramblebackDec 11, 20181 votes

That's easy. Just lock in Poppy and summoner 11 her from Summoner's Rift.

ExpStealerDec 10, 20181 votes

In this case, though, it's pretty obvious, isn't it? Fiora relies on basic attacks for damage, like, 90% of the time. Blind her whenever she goes in and then just kite. Of course, there's the fact that Fiora can Riposte Teemo's Blinding Dart, but then she won't have it for the next 15-20 seconds, as opposed to the Dart, amirite?

GreenB4nditDec 10, 20182 votes

Excatly the point made. Because they aren’t GOOD! Or experienced enough. Which is why they need to be in iron.

Zed geniusDec 9, 201823 votes

Ranked next year is gonna be great.

that's fucked up

Nea104Dec 10, 20184 votes

Remember, pre-Season 8, when they kept saying: "Don't worry, it's gonna be great"...

ØrnnToGetTrolleÐDec 10, 201821 votes

What? You think he's an Iron player because he lost a matchup that is actually, purely a SKILL MATCHUP.

Well that's rank shaming if I've ever seen one.

Oh my God... I need to stop coming here...

flibitydooDec 10, 20184 votes

yeah cause people might find out you played teemo and went 0-3 to a fiora

[sg-miss-fortune]

Zeppelins circusDec 10, 201810 votes

New iron tier=Yasuo "mains" confinement asylum

SociaI JusticeDec 9, 20188 votes

[deleted]

ez mental boomDec 10, 201817 votes

[{quoted}](name=SociaI Justice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=as72XxHL,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-09T23:41:21.257+0000)

<Removed>

I mean

That's true for at least 99.9% of the playerbase, so that's not much an insult lmao

SociaI JusticeDec 10, 20181 votes

fair enough, when someone implies that a champion is countered by something they need to missplay against to lose to you can have a pretty good read on their skill level.

FioraWillCarryDec 10, 20181 votes

I ended this season at Silver 3. So lets consider that I play at most, a Silver 3 level of skill. That being said, I would never ever go 3-0 vs a Teemo near my skill level playing as Fiora. If I were up against a Teemo who was at least Silver 5, I would have lost lane hard, or at the very least, fall massively behind in cs and lost my tower eventually while doing zero damage to his all laning phase.

The point is, that the skill difference was so massive between us, I would not consider the match up fair at all, even though he straight up hard countered me. By adding Iron tier and the Grandmaster tier, it ensures a more accurate representation of the population. Before this tier was added, this dude would have been placed in Silver or high Bronze which I could tell just by laning against him was a gross misrepresentation of his skill level.

SociaI JusticeDec 10, 20181 votes

i mean i don't really know that skill level if you will but the matchup is literally just "if fiora can press W at the correct time she wins", i don't really see how the teemos skill level matters unless his literally running it down.

FioraWillCarryDec 10, 20181 votes

I spent all season in Silver playing vs Silver players. If I faced 100 Teemos as Fiora, I may have only beaten like 5 of them in lane. Given equal skill on both players, Fiora should never ever beat a Teemo. Fiora's W has a monstrous cooldown which a Teemo who has a brain can play around very very easily. His blind is on a far lower cooldown, does insane damage and of course, negates all of her damage since all of her damage comes from autos and her Q, which is also negated by Teemo's Q.

The best Teemos I've faced would constantly stand in front of my wave when they have the minion advantage and poke relentlessly. Trying to get even a single CS would result in me losing half my HP. It wasn't uncommon for them to gain a massive CS advantage from this. I'm talking 40 CS to my 19. You try to engage on them, they simply run away with their speed boost and if you used W during the engage, they now have this extremely large window where you cannot do a thing to them, or even farm your minions. Fiora vs Teemo is one of the most brutal match ups for Fiora. No Teemo should ever lose lane to a Fiora. Of course, Fiora outscales him and all that but the lane should belong to Teemo during the early and mid game.

SociaI JusticeDec 10, 20182 votes

Fiora's W has a monstrous cooldown which a Teemo who has a brain can play around very very easily.

the teemo dies every time his blind gets riposted past level 6 if his past the half way point of the lane.

The best Teemos I've faced would constantly stand in front of my wave when they have the minion advantage and poke relentlessly.

i mean this would never happen if we assumed that there were junglers in the game but fair enough i guess.

No Teemo should ever lose lane to a Fiora.

most dia+ teetos lose lane to dia+ fioras, the matchup really is up to the fiora player to lose rather than the teemo.

MeritasDec 10, 20188 votes

What makes you think you won't get matched with Irons during the actual season?

Mute Me Im MeanDec 10, 20186 votes

This ranked system is totally inaccurate no matter how many divisions you add in because it's based off of wins. You can play better than everyone on the enemy team and still lose. It's even worst if you are an adc or mage player too, becaue you can win the shit out of lane and then get one shot by some mindless assasin just because their point and click ults are up. Games totally screwed and it's never going to change until they learn how to balance.

When someone has low health, low resistances, low mobility they are trading those stats for damage. Gotta stop listening to cry baby fighters and tanks who keep getting blown up because they didn't build correctly.

All roles and classes should be allowed to make a huge impact on the game. Otherwise ur jt gonna have overly skileld players in lower elos and underskilled players too high.

It's also not helpful that one terrible player or troll can lose a game for a team easier than one really great player can carry. That will always make ranked not work.

3TWarriorDec 10, 20183 votes

actually, wins would be an accurate measurement...if you were paired only with people from your own division or VERY CLOSE TO IT

the system was supposed to be most noticeable in higher divisions where queue times needed aid, but for some reason, it was applied to the entire playerbase

WhispersinMyHeadDec 10, 20183 votes

Doesnt Fiora win vs Teemo? If Teemo blinds she uses W and beats the shit out of Teemo. Her damage is insane enough that if she blocks blind the Teemo is fucked

FioraWillCarryDec 10, 20181 votes

Dumb Teemos will actually stand there and try to fight you, in which case they will lose to your much higher damage. Smart ones will run away while throwing mushrooms in front of them to slow you down from chasing. They will wait for their Q to come off cooldown and turn on you and kill you the instant it's back up, that is if you chase him down at least.

In no world doesn't Fiora beat a smart Teemo in the early game. Your only choice is to wait for major blunders by him or simply survive the lane and outscale him.

HeartsofConquestDec 11, 20181 votes

for 2k+ games you are either playing the wrong lane/champs or you should be out of bronze/silver.

FioraWillCarryDec 12, 20181 votes

I play roughly 1500 games a season. Every season I end a division higher than last. I ended season 6 in Silver 5, season 7 in Silver 4 and this season in Silver 3. By season 11 I should be able to make Gold. In other words, I haven't played enough. It will take me around 4500 games more to acquire the skill to reach Gold. The addition of the new tiers would smooth out LP gains and losses which in turn should make the climb a little more consistent.

HeartsofConquestDec 12, 20181 votes

I have roughly the same amount of games as you and in one season i went from all the way from s5 to literally being in dia promos. def doing something wrong

FioraWillCarryDec 12, 20181 votes

You simply have more natural talent than I do at video games I suppose. A division a season is the rate at which I improve. Nothing I can do about that. If playing 4K games is what it takes for me, so be it. I've tried everything else. Some people just learn certain things slower than others. It's a natural part of life.

HeartsofConquestDec 12, 20181 votes

you straight up are bronze right now. like watch some twitch or some youtube videos

FioraWillCarryDec 12, 20181 votes

I'll quote something I said to someone else in this thread.

I've consumed as much information as humanly possible about how to play properly. Streams, guides, YouTube videos, Reddit posts, forums posts. You name it, I've seen, read or heard it. I try to apply what I learn as best as I can. There isn't really anything new I could try. And there is no new secret information out there that will get me to Gold easily. There is no shortcut to this shit. I just have to grind it or give up and move on.

Like I said, you have more raw talent at this than me.

As for being in Bronze. That's a glitch. When they added the new tiers it just sent me from Silver 5 to Bronze 1 and from that time I started gaining 11 LP per win and losing 24 LP per loss for some odd reason, which makes climbing back to Silver extremely tedious right now. I'm currently leveling a new account on the LAN server so I'm not playing on this account much these days.

OmegaNITRODec 12, 20181 votes

Definitely study the game more. If you are learning it doesn't take nearly that long to reach gold.

I started playing at the end of Season 5, played norms in season 6 until the end of season and placed in Silver 5. Played less than 100 ranked games in S7 to make Silver 2, and this year I made Gold 5 and stopped while playing about 10% of your ranked games.

S9 I plan to seriously climb, but to do so in way less time you need to analyze the game and study it outside of just playing. If you learn and improve you'll climb way faster than just spamming games.

FioraWillCarryDec 12, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Definitely study the game more. If you are learning it doesn't take nearly that long to reach gold.

I've consumed as much information as humanly possible about how to play properly. Streams, guides, YouTube videos, Reddit posts, forums posts. You name it, I've seen, read or heard it. I try to apply what I learn as best as I can. There isn't really anything new I could try. And there is no new secret information out there that will get me to Gold easily. There is no shortcut to this shit. I just have to grind it or give up and move on.

OmegaNITRODec 12, 20181 votes

You know what, I respect that. Best of luck to you

FioraWillCarryDec 12, 20181 votes

Neptunia xoxoDec 10, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I just ran into an actual Iron player for the first time since this tier was added and I gotta say, Riot did something right. This dude fed his ass off playing a counter to my pick. No Fiora should ever go 3-0 vs Teemo.

Stopped reading there tbh. Teemo should never win lane vs Fiora due to his Q being the most obvious skill in the game which allows Fiora to W it very easily and on top of that Fiora has such an easy time sticking onto Teemo due to mobility from Q and movement speed that she gets from Vitals.

FioraWillCarryDec 10, 20181 votes

Teemo's Q has a vastly shorter cooldown than Fiora's W. Teemo has a speed boost and massive slows on his mushrooms. If he hasn't been using his mushroom to clear minions every time he has one, you're not catching a fleeing Teemo, like ever. What's more likely to happen when you engage on him, is him baiting you to chase him thinking you can kill him. He pops his speed boost, leads you into a couple shrooms, and if you have big balls and still choose to chase him, his Q comes off coodown, he hits you with it, turns on you, ignite you and auto you to death. This had to happen to me like 50 times before I learned not to ever fight Teemo in lane when playing as Fiora or any other auto based champion.

The only time Fiora has a chance of beating and equally skilled Teemo is if he runs teleport instead of ignite. 80% of the Teemos I face run ignite.

Neptunia xoxoDec 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Teemo's Q has a vastly shorter cooldown than Fiora's W. Teemo has a speed boost and massive slows on his mushrooms. If he hasn't been using his mushroom to clear minions every time he has one, you're not catching a fleeing Teemo, like ever. What's more likely to happen when you engage on him, is him baiting you to chase him thinking you can kill him. He pops his speed boost, leads you into a couple shrooms, and if you have big balls and still choose to chase him, his Q comes off coodown, he hits you with it, turns on you, ignite you and auto you to death. This had to happen to me like 50 times before I learned not to ever fight Teemo in lane when playing as Fiora or any other auto based champion.

The only time Fiora has a chance of beating and equally skilled Teemo is if he runs teleport instead of ignite. 80% of the Teemos I face run ignite.

Ask any top laner above masters + that play Fiora and they will all tell you Teemo does not win vs Fiora especially once she gets Phage. Watch any Teemo player like Manco or Pavlov playing against Fiora and the only thing they can do is hope to cheese Fiora lv 2 or just sit and wait for JG to show up. The problem is Teemo cannot kite Fiora all that well due to her movement speed from Vitals and Phage and her Q and plus Teemo loses his extra movement speed once hit and one parry on Teemo's Q and the fight is over hes already fallen too far behind especially since Fiora has higher damage and burst compared to Teemo. Tl'dr: Teemo does not win vs Fiora.

SucctionDec 10, 20183 votes

Tbf, I havea lot of experience on Fiora and I gotta say, a Teemo lane is one of the easiest you can get.

Starcraft243verDec 10, 20183 votes

Let new players start in Iron, not Silver. This will make them happy, because they can play vs other noobs and take their time to learn. And it would make us happy because we have to worry less about 2-17 bot lanes. Everyone wins.

Since every single smurf will also start iron now, no the real iron players will not play against other noobs and take their time to learn, they'll probably run into 1-3 smurfs per match and end up disgusted because they wont be able to climb.

You are welcome.

Summonah12369Dec 10, 20181 votes

You know what's funny? Physically speaking, silver is actually considered weaker than iron... ok Riot you fucked up.

LauchmelderDec 11, 20182 votes

You could argue that but then Gold would most likely be lower than bronze as well.

When we sort by historical value of those metals then it's correct as bronze, silver and gold were worth more than iron.

Summonah12369Dec 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=as72XxHL,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2018-12-11T14:22:38.038+0000)

You could argue that but then Gold would most likely be lower than bronze as well.

When we sort by historical value of those metals then it's correct as bronze, silver and gold were worth more than iron.

I said PHYSICALLY, not historical value, were you even listening?

GrimálkinDec 11, 20183 votes

You wrote physically yes, as a reason why Riot fucked up.

Physically speaking, silver is actually considered weaker than iron... ok Riot you fucked up.

Shuriman God on the other hand, came up with an argument that Riot went with historical value of those metals when creating ranked tiers, meaning that they, in fact, did not fuck up.

It's funny because you accuse him of not reading your comment while you do the same.

Summonah12369Dec 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You wrote physically yes, as a reason why Riot fucked up.

Shuriman God on the other hand, came up with an argument that Riot went with historical value of those metals when creating ranked tiers, meaning that they, in fact, did not fuck up.

It's funny because you accuse him of not reading your comment while you do the same.

I had a bit of a hard time understanding the context, and assumed he thought I used historical value. Mb.