Was there ever a point when Lee Sin wasn't strong/viable? (Actual Question)

Salt and Veigar·Feb 8, 2015·21 votes·2,560 views

This isn't a Lee Sin rage/QQ/complain thread I just want to know if there was ever a point where he was deemed unviable

32 Comments

Truly PridefulFeb 8, 201518 votes

When he first came out I don't think he was considered strong, but they then buffed him a shitload for a few patches and here we are.

TheKingDodoFeb 8, 20152 votes

he wasn't considered unviable... sorta "meh" like azir (before they gave him that mobility buff)

SilmarilFeb 8, 20157 votes

He was considered really weak when he was released, and was only "viable" because he had a bug that let him double cast E for super retarded clear times.

Then they gave him massive buffs across the board (every single one of his skills got a damage increase and energy cost reduction, yes all 4 skills, something like a total of 2.0 AD ratio and 70 energy cost reduction for a full rotation) right around the time people actually learned to play him and, well, the rest is history. (Basically the same thing that happened with Yasuo, except Yasuo crossed paths with the almighty Nerfbat, and Lee Sin only met its mentally deficient cousin, the Ticklebat)

I've always wondered, if they just straight up reverted Lee Sin to his original "garbage-tier" release level, would he still be strong? I bet he'd still be viable.

Ariel the CruelFeb 8, 20151 votes

He'd probably be sharing a seat with Shen.

I'd say keep the reduced energy costs or the energy refund. Revert the rest. Give bonus damage on minions if his jungle is an issue.

Now he can still make the LC$-BIG-PLAY$ with his utility without being kicked out of jungle, but can't outright eat everyone's face from level one while still transitioning to an S-tier late-game support/assassin.

CindikleFeb 8, 20155 votes

When I started playing at the start of S3 he wasn't considered strong.

But it was more-so in that it wasn't rewarding to learn him when other champions could do his job without the high skill cap. It felt like most of the popular champions at that time were that way too.

SEKAIFeb 8, 201517 votes

Not really?

He, Elise and Vi were the jungle trinity of S3 for a reason. The other 2 got tuned down one way or another, Lee was left basically untouched even though he received tons of nerfs but none of those actually touched his actual problems in a significant manner.

CindikleFeb 8, 20153 votes

I believe it was J4, Elise and Vi for the first half of the season. J4 got nerfed at some point and Lee took over.

I could be wrong. I just don't remember seeing him very much.

SEKAIFeb 8, 20152 votes

You're prob right, dunno.

Either way, I don't remember not really seeing him except when around S1 - S2? After that Lee has been in almost every game for me.

blujadajhdjaFeb 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You're prob right, dunno.

Either way, I don't remember not really seeing him except when around S1 - S2? After that Lee has been in almost every game for me.

He wasn't really considered strong until somewhere in mid or late S3. Before the complain/QQ threads, I think it was J4, Elise, Wukong, and Vi that were constantly picked for jungling. At the time, everyone thought he was a hard champ because he had 2 parts for his abilities.

BallisticMouseFeb 8, 20151 votes

I also played for S3, Lee Sin was popular at this point too.

CerbearusFeb 8, 20155 votes

Started out weak, 5 days after he was released he was hotfixed with insane number buffs.

Since then he has gotten several more buffs and some love taps they call nerfs (that always came with compensation buffs)

Done25Feb 8, 20154 votes

At one point it wasn't uncommon to see Lee players die on their 1st/2nd camp as Lee after they got their red leash. That's how hard it was to jungle as him.

And yet people still kept using him.

SEKAIFeb 8, 20153 votes

When he wasn't out yet.

Tbh tho, remember when FF was the big thing, like it was so broken you just don't laugh anymore while getting 1 shot by someone's AA? Yeah even then Lee Sin's popularity was still among the top pick bracket because how useful he is by default.

GrashnimFeb 8, 20152 votes

No.

not a starburstFeb 8, 20152 votes

Lee Sin hasn't always been strong. He was a great jungler and an awesome ganker, but he wasn't quite as good at ganking as, say, Elise and Kha'zix. According to most of my League friends who played S3, he was good, but not great. But when the jungle kept getting harder, his ability to both farm well and gank well lead to him perpetually getting stronger and stronger. The second aspect was that the meta of League keeps getting more and more about mobility. And guess who the most mobile champion in League is. The third is that while Akali Amumu Braum Darius Elise Fiora Fizz Gragas Jax Khazix KogMaw Lucian Morgana Nidalee RekSai Renekton Rengar Sona Soraka Talon Ziggs all took serious, meaningful hits from the dreaded nerf bat, Lee took pretty much none. It's less that they buffed him out of control, and more that the meta shifted, Riot nerfed, and Lee is now the last guy standing.

SolaxoFeb 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abyssal Plunge,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=poUwPi3t,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-02-08T06:06:05.085+0000)

Lee Sin hasn't always been strong. He was a great jungler and an awesome ganker, but he wasn't quite as good at ganking as, say, Elise and Kha'zix. According to most of my League friends who played S3, he was good, but not great. But when the jungle kept getting harder, his ability to both farm well and gank well lead to him perpetually getting stronger and stronger. The second aspect was that the meta of League keeps getting more and more about mobility. And guess who the most mobile champion in League is. The third is that while all took serious, meaningful hits from the dreaded nerf bat, Lee took pretty much none. It's less that they buffed him out of control, and more that the meta shifted, Riot nerfed, and Lee is now the last guy standing.

There was no Elise nor Kha when Lee was released..

DigivolveFeb 8, 20152 votes

yes release lee sin was garbage hten they doubled all his ratios and made his Q ez to land. then lowered his energy costs

Ark Angel HFBFeb 9, 20151 votes

you would be right... if it wasn't for the fact that he had a bug that let you triple proc tempest.

IceKingChernobogFeb 8, 20151 votes

there were points where he fell out of flavor for about a few weeks to month but there is never a point where he wasn't strong or viable

HitmarkerMerkFeb 8, 20151 votes

I think in season three he fell off late game so not as many people used him.

lDontLiftIcarryFeb 8, 20151 votes

season 2 was a great time to play as a jungler

killd0zerFeb 8, 20151 votes

You remember incorrectly. He was so weak on release they hotfix buffed him

Major SparklesFeb 8, 20151 votes

Season 1 everyone thought he was a useless jack of all trades (WHAT'S WRONG WITH HANDYMEN BTW?!). Little did they know of the terror that lied within.

Chief RollieFeb 8, 20151 votes

The only time lee was considered weak was right after he was released. He was good at clearing the jungle but he couldn't do anything in fights because of his crippling energy problems so they added energy return on his passive. Since then he has been consistent.