Hey Riot, If You Are Buffing Champions That Don't Need a Rework Yet Are Underplayed in LCS...

Meep Man·Aug 26, 2016·109 votes·18,833 views

Don't forget:

254 Comments

RiotRiot SotereAug 26, 201679 votes

Heyas! Appreciate the list, and we've considered a lot of these guys. For 6.18 we were trying to not take huge risks. Broke your list down into a couple categories based on my team's thoughts:

Sees niche play, that's probably at an appropriate level (with an added thought that given we're toning down some of the most present champions, they'd show up more): Anivia TwistedFate KogMaw Tristana Varus Zilean

We've recently given them some buffs: Renekton Malphite Orianna Veigar

Cross our fingers for Looper pulling him out?: Singed

People would think we're crazy if they got buffs: Amumu Annie Skarner Volibear

Many of the other champions fall into a pool where they've historically been avoided by professional players for a variety of reasons, and they'd need riskier buffs than we're willing to take on during this patch.

Meep ManAug 26, 20169 votes

Thank you for the reasons, especially for the ones listed. I was a little confused on how you were buffing champions, so I threw out some champions who aren't really seeing LCS play currently since we are near the Worlds patch. I would really like to see Fiddlesticks , Chogath , and Shaco especially this year at LCS. Maybe a Singed as well. Anyone here that are currently being looked at?

RiotRiot SotereAug 26, 201617 votes

No we didn't take on any of those 4. We made cases for Cho'Gath but thought we had better opportunities elsewhere. Other 3 are scary for a variety of reasons. Would I love to see them in competitive? Yeah, definitely for a game or two. Would I want to subject our entire playerbase to buffs that would unlikely influence their viability in pro play? Not really.

PapaGreg21Aug 26, 201614 votes

Why hasn't BOTRK been considered for buffing to improve the offense of on-hit champions? Not everybody has the AP to build Guinsoos and post-devourer it has left champs like Yi and Shyvana having to go with stranger builds to try to compete.

ThalesAug 26, 20164 votes

Not quite right. While certainly Fiddles and Shaco have skills that send opponents fleeing in terror, in my experience, Singed's kit instead exerts a powerful attractive force.

blackfootedfoxAug 26, 20163 votes

Thoughts on why Skarner is pretty powerful right now? At least in lower elo?

RiotRiot SotereAug 26, 201649 votes

People keep letting him get into his zone.

redfeenixAug 26, 201610 votes

That zone needs to go friend, legit the only minigame I like is bard's. Fuck gp's minigame, skarners minigame etc. I'm here to play league, not to play some other game withing a game within a game.

Edit: Oops guess people like their champs with minigames. In that case fuck me keep making more....

Raj Te Lag CompAug 26, 20165 votes

Gp's minigame?

Varus VindicatorAug 26, 20162 votes

i think he's talking about farming(with Q)? or maybe the berrals?

redfeenixAug 26, 20164 votes

The barrels, thanks

Muh MehAug 26, 20167 votes

Well if a mechanic=minigame, I guess all champion designs are an issue.

redfeenixAug 26, 20165 votes

No its a minigame i'm forced to participate in. When I play vs a gp, I dont really wanna be forced into playing his dumb barrel game. I'd rather play my own character instead of last hitting his barrels.

Idk I just feel like its not really fun, I'm not sure how satisfyting the minigame is on GP's side, but its pretty lame on the recieving end.

Supreme Senpai69Aug 26, 20162 votes

Surprised you didn't mention Fiora. But tbh I love the "minigames." Might just be me though.

JbelsAug 26, 201620 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pfV689Z4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-08-26T01:06:46.410+0000)

Heyas! Appreciate the list, and we've considered a lot of these guys. For 6.18 we were trying to not take huge risks. Broke your list down into a couple categories based on my team's thoughts:

Sees niche play, that's probably at an appropriate level (with an added thought that given we're toning down some of the most present champions, they'd show up more):

We've recently given them some buffs:

Cross our fingers for Looper pulling him out?:

People would think we're crazy if they got buffs:

Many of the other champions fall into a pool where they've historically been avoided by professional players for a variety of reasons, and they'd need riskier buffs than we're willing to take on during this patch.

I don't want to sound rude, but all of the champions you've buffed have seen repeat appearances at worlds, and I can't help but feel like the only reason for that is because they are capable of making big plays. I understand Singed isn't fun to watch, but that's on you for designing a champion that literally does nothing but run and deciding that he doesn't need more meaningful gameplay

RiotRiot SotereAug 26, 201686 votes

Singed isn't fun to watch? That's news to me. I'd love to see him in competitive more. We've avoided throwing buffs his way because he's already incredibly strong in experienced hands.

rtbf76109271Aug 26, 201617 votes

You didn't mention Teemo!

Last time he was picked it was such a joke it made league news :(

He is my favourite champion

BoundaryBreakerAug 26, 201612 votes

We have a satan worshiper here XD

TaarkiAug 26, 20162 votes

Whats so wrong with Satan? Last time I checked God killed Millions while Satan killed about 10...

BoundaryBreakerAug 27, 20162 votes

Oh I'm not bashing on it, I'm athiest myself XD. People can worship whatever the hell they feel like, even if it is a demonic badger of doom.

Varus VindicatorAug 26, 201626 votes

Singed is HILARIOUS to watch IDK what you're talking about

statelesskillerAug 26, 201614 votes

dude singed is like udyr. he is at the same time the most boring. AND the most fun thing in the entire game. do you know how much skill it takes to avoid a 5 man goon squad. WITH JUST RUNNING? oh yeah sure leblanc can just dash over a wall to safety. but singed has to DODGE 5 CHAMPIONS WORTH OF SKILL SHOTS BY SIMPLY JUKING RUNNING AND FLIPPING.

he is so much more interesting to watch from a active standpoint simply because to play singed like that requires so much more skill then any mobile champ

BlitzidiousAug 26, 201611 votes

Simply put, he isn't the most mechanically difficult champion, but he certainly is up there when it comes to game knowledge.

MunchCrunchLunchAug 26, 201610 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pfV689Z4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-08-26T01:06:46.410+0000)

Heyas! Appreciate the list, and we've considered a lot of these guys. For 6.18 we were trying to not take huge risks. Broke your list down into a couple categories based on my team's thoughts:

Sees niche play, that's probably at an appropriate level (with an added thought that given we're toning down some of the most present champions, they'd show up more):

We've recently given them some buffs:

Cross our fingers for Looper pulling him out?:

People would think we're crazy if they got buffs:

Many of the other champions fall into a pool where they've historically been avoided by professional players for a variety of reasons, and they'd need riskier buffs than we're willing to take on during this patch.

can you please. make top lane more interesting in worlds. please. no more gnar and ekko. gnar is too strong. he was being played in lcs. and he got 4 buffs. 4 buffs. one of them was reverted. i do agree he needed some sort of a buff. but i think he has decent enough damage he does not need damage buffs let alone 4 of them

help melee carries. in top lane and also in the jungle please.

also those renekton buffs didn't do jack shit. his winrate went up by like 1%.

redfeenixAug 26, 20163 votes

Thank you very much for sharing your REASONS.

Are there any champions OP missed that you PERSONALLY wanna see at worlds?

And what do you think about these guys: Akali Fiddlesticks Chogath Garen Heimerdinger Kalista Karthus Kayle Lux Pantheon Quinn Renekton Sejuani Shaco Shyvana Tryndamere Volibear Warwick XinZhao Zac Zyra

Obviously you dont need to tackle all those (except zac. please buff zac bb :), but i'm curious to know your opinions on any of those champs. You have good reasoning/ analysis, i'm curious to hear more .

RiotRiot SotereAug 26, 201624 votes

Zyra and Brand I really want to see. We got a taste in the IWC Qualifiers with Brand. Feel like it's been awhile since we had more damaging supports. Quinn would be really cool; not sure how much of my preference there is personal bias or the want for a roaming aggressive murderbird.

I'm with you on Zac. After I did the last set of buffs people were convinced he was going to be broken. He isn't, but he also doesn't have a ton of room for buffs. Pros are too good at dodging and interrupting his Slingshot. :(

Yuumi or LoseAug 26, 20163 votes

What about Heimerdinger ?? He never sees competitive play ever. For once can we do something about that?

Meep ManAug 26, 201613 votes

I think he falls under the case that he stated that he is only really picked in extreme niche situations. He was picked once in Pro Play and his team actually won. I feel like this is less of question for Riot and more of a question for the Competitive teams.

taleofsonataAug 26, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Junkyard TrundIe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pfV689Z4,comment-id=0002000500000000,timestamp=2016-08-26T02:01:13.590+0000)

What about ?? He never sees competitive play ever. For once can we do something about that?

He SAW ONCE BY UNICORN the TEAM that troll most of the time and got NERFED.

SuperLuigiLXIVAug 26, 20167 votes

I know you can't speed up the Slingshot, because landing it is such a rewarding move and Zac's FAR too destructive for his initiation to land more reliably than it already does.

But I think, given how helpless he is when he CAN'T land his initiation, that he shouldn't be so easily knocked out of his E. Have you considered giving him a spellshield during his jump, so that stopping it requires at least two CC presses? I don't feel like it's too much to ask that Janna or Poppy stop being an instantaneous bad day for Zac players. It wouldn't have to even be that strong of a spellshield, it wouldn't have to stop everything. Let damage through, let stuns and charms through. But displacements and snares, things that pretty much make it nigh-impossible to Zac, can't we at least block one?

It's beyond tilting when my half-ton Jello ball of doom gets smacked away by a tiny Vayne arrow. It's TRIGGERING.

GaleWinUnleashedAug 26, 20162 votes

Ever jump on a good Thresh player? Me neither...

ProfDrDeathAug 26, 20162 votes

Second that Quinn opinion. Murderbird is the word!

On the other hand, I can see Zac coming in with the nerfs to Gragas and Rek'Sai. Of course not as the dominant jungler (that would be Elise and Nidalee - again :( ).

On Quinn again, if you were to change her, what would you look at? Personally, as a Quinn main, I feel like her early is a little too strong to be buffed already, especially against melees, while her late-game can feel a little lacking. I blame that on the fact that her ultimate, Tag Team/Behind Enemy Lines, offers no direct offensive power, forcing the power to come from kit parts accessible prior to level 6. If this was the issue, would it be reasonable to add some kind of power for her basic skills as a passive to her ultimate, in the vein of Anivia or Sivir ? For example, reduce Q/E cooldowns by 0/1/2 seconds, depending on ult rank?

Sahn UzalAug 26, 20163 votes

Do you think Sion Sion could use a little love tap? I don't think he's in a huge need of buffs, but I do think he could use a little bit of love.

TotalJerkAug 26, 20163 votes

His winrate is amazing right now and if they do give him any buffs I think they'll also need to do something about his oppressive E

Sahn UzalAug 26, 20164 votes

Dude, Really. Out of all champions that could be considered oppressive. You decide to complain about Sion. Fucking Sion.

AckelopeAug 26, 20162 votes

I get annoyed by tanks here and there, but really. Sion has the most counterplay amongst tanks/fighters that I know of. His abilities are all skillshots, predictable, and honestly not hard to counterplay if you're playing well. That's probably why he isn't picked in the LCS much, if at all :/

EchoezOfRainAug 26, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pfV689Z4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-08-26T01:06:46.410+0000) People would think we're crazy if they got buffs:

Honestly, I'm unsure if Skarner belongs in the discussion, as I believe he needs a rework of his Passive, but at the very least give him more base attack speed and a smaller bonus within his Spires and he should be fine for a while...at least until more thorough work is done on his Spires

BârdAug 26, 201615 votes

Bro, Skarner walks a fine line, and we don't want 5.16 Skarner to happen again.

70% winrate.

Scorpions everywhere.

Scorpions in my nightmares.

Not.

Like.

This.

JSTIN8Aug 26, 20165 votes

Hey, would you mind breaking down the Team's thoughts on Nasus for me? I realize you kinda answered with your comment on riskier buffs, but it feels like Nasus no longer has a "Niche" anymore for a team to pick him, whether it is competitive or just pubs, there is not a time I look at Nasus and don't think, "Yeah I could play him, but Darius is easier to win with than him". Which is sad for me, because Nasus is my favorite champ of all time and it just feels like with the creation of the Juggernauts, Nasus's role of a slow, lumbering tanky dude that dishes out huge damage is now a class quality, and his claim to fame of infinite Q stacking gets cast to only being used on towers because he can no longer teamfight anymore. It feels like he needs a minor kit rework to modernize him, similar to what Annie got at the Mage Update. I appreciate any thoughts, even if its a simple: "We don't feel like Nasus needs any buffs/nerfs"

Solari FortuneAug 26, 20161 votes

Anything Planned for MissFortune or Syndra

I saw on PBE Miss Fortune's Passive doesn't mention half damage to towers now

RiotRiot SotereAug 27, 20163 votes

I believe we intend to go forward with the passive to turret buffs for Miss Fortune. We tested some other things out but I don't think we were happy with them. As usual, changes on PBE are subject to change though.

Syndra is on the verge of going off in competitive play. She was seeing decent amounts of play and her competition is getting toned down. When I see her in ranked she smokes people...

ChîpsAug 26, 201611 votes

Anything on Aatrox ? :D

redfeenixAug 26, 20166 votes

Yep, a full rework ....

Hes like yorick they wont touch him for 5 years untill hes reworked.

VanjieAug 26, 20166 votes

Since Riot is posting in this thread, I want to point out that you have three failed reworks that you have yet to respond to. You ruined Karma Mordekaiser Shen and completely removed anything players loved about them. Some champions are in a state where they are balanced and being worked on for the wrong reasons, while others are just being completely ignored.

What was the intention behind forcibly removing everything fun and unique about Mordekaiser ? You tried to force an idea on the community and complete obliterated in the process. You revolved his entire kit around this useless dragon mechanic and you wanted to bottleneck him as a AD bot lane. Clearly it didn't work and you have yet to work on him. He also did not receive a visual update.

You put this stupid sword spirit thing mechanic on Shen where it didn't need to be put on him . . . . . and removed things what made Shen . . . Shen. Again, another instance where you try to force a new mechanic on us instead of trying to update and tune what players loved about Shen and here we are . . . you are nerfing him because he is too strong in LCS . . . . but no one likes him because he doesn't feel like Shen at all.

Karma has received the most kit number updates in LoL history. She had her entire lore, theme, visual appearance, kit, and animations completely removed . . . . for a half worked champion that cannot seem to be worked on. You buffed her numbers in a pathetic attempt at saying you are working on her, but you are not actually addressing her problems. The champion has a poorly executed theme and visual update . . . . and kit that doesn't make sense on her or is very exciting . . . . It has been three years and you cannot seem to be bothered to do anything other than bolster her numbers to insane levels and then nerf it later on. Address her poorly executed lore, theme, not cohesive kit, and visual update . . . . . Even if you just fix her identity and theme issues . . . Karma is not that much work. You fail to realize this.

You seem to have a lot of excuses for not working on champions. Instead of making excuses and not rectifying mistakes you make on champions in a timely manner, why don't you work and actually care about the champions for a second and not the money. All you Red Names only care about LCS and not the champions.

Stop making false promises and communicate better . . . and work. No one wants to constantly hear about your excuses and why you refuse to work on things you make a mistake on. The community will appreciate you more if you fix things within a reasonable time-span. You Red Names have yet to reassure any of us that you care about the champion and rectifying your mistakes in a timely manner.

BârdAug 26, 20166 votes

Morde: Failure, but has since recovered. Everyone abandoned botlane Morde. Exchange the W passive for actual base stats and he will be fine.

Shen: Passive and W changes were great. The entire spirit sword mechanic is fun, but don't feel like an ability that should be on Shen (the flurry attacks from Q feel pretty nice, though).

Karma: Agree. An interesting, unique kit with distinctive visuals (black and white with fans) for a boring, generic kit with generic visuals (lumps of jade and fireballs and PEACE!!!!!!), who has been low key broken for a while (buffs on buffs on buffs) but so goddamn boring that very few people bothered to play her until recently.

LeonerdoAug 26, 20161 votes

I haven't abandoned botlane Morde.

Shen is definitely a little wonky atm, but at least he's unique?

Those are very subjective opinions you have there on Karma. I happen to think black and white is a boring color scheme and that Jade fire is awesome.

BârdAug 26, 20163 votes

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you are pretty much alone with botlane Morde.

According to champion.gg, 94.73% of Mordekaiser games are played in either top, mid or jungle, leaving only 5.27% of games for bot.

A Kiting JannaAug 26, 20164 votes

Wait, Are you saying that they should buff those champions?

Meep ManAug 26, 201635 votes

I'm saying if they want to buff people like Riven Thresh Malphite Vayne for not being picked a ton in the LCS to try to spice up Worlds, why not buff the above?