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I still don't understand why Syndra's Ult is allowed to be in the game

Akali is SO HOT··6 votes·2,779 views

All high burst Assassins in this game have delayed burst, can be kited, can be peeled, have skillshots they can miss, have to go into melee range, etc. Most other high burst mages are immobile, have skillshots to land as part of their combo, and you have a lot of options against them (most of them). Just for some examples: AurelionSol Dodge his skillshots, play around his orb range, straight line ult that can be dodged Brand Skillshots, QSS his Stun, stay spread out to avoid ult damage Cassiopeia Fairly short range, kite her, dodge her poison Fizz Melee, skillshot ultimate that can be blocked/dodged, delayed burst Taliyah Damage is frontloaded into skillshots

If you CC or kill these champions their burst combos are basically done for. If you are against Syndra, once she presses R it cannot be stopped even if she is CCed or dies. Once she presses R there is not a single thing you can do to avoid her damage outside of Zhonyas. Not to mention that it isn't very hard to get her ult off on someone to begin with because of her ridiculously easy to land stun and massive W slow that gives her a great setup for it.

When Syndra goes in for a kill there is no interaction. She stuns/slows you, presses R, and then leaves and there's nothing you can do to react to it. Cleansing/Qssing her stun doesn't help much because, by then, she'll have still been able to press R and kill you and you've effectively wasted a summoner/item. Every time she's touched/reworked Riot always fails to address her core issue of having a 0 counterplay playstyle. Dying because she pressed the R button is never fun to play against.

Look at this for example: https://puu.sh/rtGsz/036452778d.webm

Full health Varus against a Syndra with double Doran's Rings 100-0s him even with him using cleanse to get rid of the stun. Impossible to miss slow into a stun that can't be missed because of the slow finished with massive targeted damage has no counterplay. Later on in the game if she gets even a slight lead she can just say fuck it and kill you with just her R if you're a squishy. Where is the counterplay?

End Rant

22 Comments

Deathhawk8885 votes

Step 1: Buy item 3157. Step 2: Whenever she ults, pop it.

Akali is SO HOT3 votes

I already mentioned that in my post. Having that as your only option that not all champions have access to is not counterplay.

Slythion4 votes

All high burst Assassins in this game have delayed burst, can be kited, can be peeled, have skillshots they can miss, have to go into melee range, etc.

Syndra:

delayed burst? - (definitely) check skillshots? - check Limited Range (in comparison to other mages)? - check

Most other high burst mages are immobile, have skillshots to land as part of their combo

Syndra:

Immobile? - check Has 3 skill shots and relies on combos? - check

if you CC or kill these champions their burst combos are basically done for.

Lux Viktor Annie Ryze Taliyah Vladimir Zed Ziggs and many more all have ults that still go off even after being cc'd or killed. A hell of a lot of mages (as you see) have this, it's not exactly some "Syndra gets the special treatment and is completely separate from other burst mages in unfair ways" situation

Once she presses R there is not a single thing you can do to avoid her damage outside of Zhonyas.

Zhonyas, Untargettability in ANY form (fizz, xayah, bard, etc), Braum Wall, Yasuo Wall, and spell shields all work against this ability as well. It's not as special as you keep trying to make it seem by conveniently forgetting about 80% of her actual kit and functions

it isn't very hard to get her ult off on someone to begin with because of her ridiculously easy to land stun and massive W slow

You mean...she has to combo you in order to kill you? Uhh.........

The W doesn't have a long range and its aoe got reduced to make it actually difficult to land. Not only that but you can still dodge the E.

Cleansing/Qssing her stun doesn't help much because, by then, she'll have still been able to press R and kill you and you've effectively wasted a summoner/item

that depends purely on your reaction speed and nothing else

Every time she's touched/reworked Riot always fails to address her core issue of having a 0 counterplay playstyle

I think I've made it clear that I disagree with this perspective

Dying because she pressed the R button is never fun to play against.

You just complained about her combo and then immediately talk about how she doesn't need to combo because just presses R...pick one dude

Look at this for example: https://puu.sh/rtGsz/036452778d.webm

I saw a Syndra land:

1 W, 1 Q, 1 E, 1 R (power boosted by 2 orbs), 1 TDL, 1 Auto

all this with Blue Buff, and because idk when this clip was made, it could very well be back when it gave bonus AP. Who knows, all I know is that Syndra had a lead on Varus and got to get her entire combo and some onto him for a kill. It's also important to mention that it was on a Varus who had no magic resist lol

We are talking about the same early-game burst-mage bully here, right? How is this surprising? Even a Fizz can kill a target with his entire combo at level 6

Akali is SO HOT3 votes

{quoted}

Limited Range (in comparison to other mages)? - check

Syndra's range is average compared to other mages similar to her.

Immobile? - check Has 3 skill shots and relies on combos? - check

Lack of mobility does not justify putting endless amounts of bullshit into a single kit. Her W is really easy to land and when you follow that up with her E it's almost impossible to miss her stun and even if she does miss it she still gets the knockback that is guaranteed to hit unless she decides to use it in the complete opposite direction.

Lux Viktor Annie Ryze Taliyah Vladimir Zed Ziggs and many more all have ults that still go off even after being cc'd or killed. A hell of a lot of mages (as you see) have this, it's not exactly some "Syndra gets the special treatment and is completely separate from other burst mages in unfair ways" situation

Their ults may go off yes, but none of them are guaranteed to land outside of Zed on the selected target and any followup they may want to do after will be stopped by CC or Death. Syndra's ult hits you no matter what.

Zhonyas, Untargettability in ANY form (fizz, xayah, bard, etc), Braum Wall, Yasuo Wall, and spell shields all work against this ability as well. It's not as special as you keep trying to make it seem by conveniently forgetting about 80% of her actual kit and functions

That's one item and the rest are champion specific. If I'm playing someone like Ashe or Vayne, for example, I'm not going to be building a Zhonya's and for the champions that can build hourglass, they don't start off the game with it and having to go out of your way to build the item can completely screw up your build path.

The W doesn't have a long range and its aoe got reduced to make it actually difficult to land. Not only that but you can still dodge the E.

950 Range is not short range. She throws the ball very quickly and the AoE of the slow makes it incredibly hard to miss. As I said before, once she lands the slow you have almost no chance of dodging her E and can still get knockbacked with the ministun at the end for a followup ult.

that depends purely on your reaction speed and nothing else

If you've ever played against Syndra then you would know that getting stunned by her guarantees that she'll get her ult in no matter how quickly you can cleanse/qss it. Watch the video again for reference.

You just complained about her combo and then immediately talk about how she doesn't need to combo because just presses R...pick one dude

She gets to a point in the game where she doesn't need to land her combos and only needs spheres nearby to take most of a squishies health with a single R.

I saw a Syndra land:

1 W, 1 Q, 1 E, 1 R, 1 TDL, 1 Auto

all this with Blue Buff, and because idk when this clip was made, it could very well be back when it gave bonus AP. Who knows, all I know is that Syndra had a lead on Varus and got to get her entire combo and some onto him for a kill.

The point of the clip is that her combo is insanely easy to land beacuse of how hard it is to miss her slow and stun and even with cleanse you still can't escape the one shot.

We are talking about the same early-game burst-mage bully here, right? How is this surprising? Even a Fizz can kill a target with his entire combo at level 6

Fizz has to be in melee range and landing his ult at close range doesn't do sufficient damage to kill his opponent unless they're afk. He can't really kill anyone at level 6 anymore unless he has a lead on his opponent. Even then, his opponent has time to react and move out of the way of Fizz whereas they can't do anything to stop Syndra's ult.

Slythion3 votes

you're in denial that someone like Syndra has real tradeoffs for her strengths and that she actually does have counterplay.

My suggestion is to actually play her, and I know you haven't because you think her Knock-back range from her E is the same as her Stun-range, which is simply false. Her knock-back range is only like, half the range of her Orb-stun

Call Me Nana2 votes

She has to come quite close to cast that spell though, it is a little frustrating to be point and clicked to death, but she also has to keep up a sufficient amount of spheres to one shot you.

Akali is SO HOT4 votes

675 Range and 750 Range at max rank isn't really that short range. For comparison, Brand's ult has 750 Range and Malzahar's ult has 700 range. Having ranges between 650 and 750 isn't uncommon for those types of ults on those types of champions. Using W to grab a sphere into a Q + E stun is at least 5 spheres which means she'll be doing 450 - 900 +100% AP

Worst case scenario, as long as the player is capable of pressing the Q key a single time, her ult will be doing 360 - 720 + 80%AP targeted magic damage. That's a ton of damage for a targeted ability. It's just dumb.

Shadòw2 votes

you can avoid her Damage by actually not letting her stack up spheres. yup, if you want it like that, her burst is delayed too because she needs to stack up spheres first.

also, you can always build an early item 1033 that you build into item 3102 later, item 3157, or item 3155 as AD which counters her very hard.

sometimes you can simply counter her with simple stats. when she actually only hits her Ult, and that does not enough damage, a LOT of her power budged is already gone because so much of that lies in her Ult.

also her skillshots are not easier to land than any other champs skillshots, stop making things up.

Doodlzzz1 votes

Syndra o hai

SparksFFF1 votes

counterplay is something people seem to not understand..there are many many many many champs in this game that have an ult thats like omg...wtf...why is this a thing? there are 136 champs last count. you think snydra is the only one?

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

No other champion has targeted burst like Syndra does.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pclx90ah,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-06-18T21:51:11.679+0000)

No other champion has targeted burst like Syndra does.

cough cough

Veigar Brand

If they're any minions nearby, Brand's R will hit at least twice before you can move away if you don't use a flash or dash, so for the most part it's burst and its targeted. It also does a lot of damage alone.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

Veigar's ult is pretty stupid too, but that's another discussion. Compared to Syndra's ult, Brand's ult does measly damage on single target unless it bounces to the target multiple times which takes significantly longer than Syndra's ult.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pclx90ah,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-19T00:48:42.478+0000)

Veigar's ult is pretty stupid too, but that's another discussion. Compared to Syndra's ult, Brand's ult does measly damage on single target unless it bounces to the target multiple times which takes significantly longer than Syndra's ult.

Minions nearby (aka in lane) are perfect for multiple bounces, and 2 bounces easily does >400 damage with just a touch of AP.

I've ulted people from half health as Brand and killed them. I've personally always thought he was bullshit.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

The difference is that Syndra's ult kills you in one go almost instantly. Brand takes much longer to do his damage which gives you a lot more time to react. You can also get away from the other targets so it doesn't hit you again whereas you're screwed once Syndra presses R. I also think Brand's kit is dumb, but it doesn't excuse Syndra's ultimate at all.

zaqat1 votes

Syndra, has no escape method except for her stun which takes 2 abilities to be done, has zero mobility, has short range to cast abilities, unlike LB, brand and other mages, squishy af..any other reason not give her damage as compensation?

Akali is SO HOT5 votes

Being able to one shot squishies with a targeted ability that cannot be avoided is great compensation for lack of mobility.

zaqat2 votes

It actually is, Lb can do both, a fed adc can do it, a tank can do it, you have zhonya for it, u can get hexdrinker, it's a nightmare for me when I play syndra, you can buy MR, banshee can cancel the stun if syndra doesn't hit her Q on you first, her W range was reduce significantly..get barrier, or heal, i swear it helps, don't wake into her Qs, actually most of my laners wake into my Q, not like if even outplay them..what else do you want to counter her? The nerfs she's gotten are plenty and more than enough, and please tell me that u can dodge garen or darius ults, or veigar's ult, karthus ult, all of these are point and click ults..

Laxfan521 votes

What about veigar? Syndra has to get her balls set up first before she ults. All veigar has to do is ult.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

Fizz doesn't really have much counterplay outside of dodge the ult, and if you can dodge the ult, you can probably dodge a Syndra stun and W.

That's because although he is melee, his E covers a large amount of ground while making him untargetable, meaning there is very little you can do, because your CC is probably ~650 range, and once he gets that close, he'll have E'd, meaning anything you throw is dodged.

You should have a chance to CC him once he lands, before he gets his W and Q off... but his ult knocks you up, so you'll be CC'd.

His W burst is delayed.. except his ult stacks it.

Laxfan521 votes

Try playing syndra so you can see where she is weak

Escheton1 votes

You know how you counter point and click damage? By being tanky or by buying zonya. Go play Galio into her. Or anything else with good waveclear and tanky bases.

Being able to kill a 90% adc with no defensive items with a double dorans and a full spell rotation is working as intended.

The problem comes from people ignoring the obvious counterplay because it doesn't fit their comfort zone. Well, tough break. This is a complicated game of rock paper scissors, sometimes you need to play the rock. Don't cry if you play paper into scissors. Thats how the game works.

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