Who Will Be The Biggest Problem of the Big Six Mages Post-Update?

Meep Man·Apr 18, 2016·4 votes·1,436 views

Put predictions here. Whoever guesses right is the Macho King of the Boards for a day once 6.10 comes out. If no one is a problem, everyone wins.

62 Comments

DoctorInjuApr 18, 201615 votes

Zed

Zero Skill TankApr 18, 20164 votes

Sad thing is, this is serious. With heavy nerfs to item 3010 regen, MP5 in general, and stasis on item 3157 , facing Zed will become almost impossible. Regen nerfs will sting twice as hard vs energy user.

It is possible that there will be some buffs to compensate for this, but a mage strong enough to beat a Zed with those nerfs will get Kassadin-level banratio in a single patch.

Meep ManApr 18, 20163 votes

On the other hand, you get Zhonya's 500 gold earlier and get the same amount of armor for it. Increased CDR of course, but I don't know many champions that can use their ultimate every second it comes off cool down.

SnugglePuggle94Apr 18, 20161 votes

But also on the other hand, since the active CD is increased, he can ult you twice in the time span that the active is down. It's like Riot wants the AD champs to kick our butts even more...

Meep ManApr 18, 20162 votes

To be fair, you really shouldn't be able to nullify every cast of a champion's ultimate with an item. Nullifying every third cast is fair. If they added an AP QSS, that would be cool though. Two items to completely nullify nearly a champion's ultimate.

AazzlanoApr 18, 20165 votes

Yeah but the problem is that 2 items exist which completely nullify Zed's ultimate, and the champion is still broken. That shows that his play pattern and basic abilities are wayyyy overtuned. You don't get that kind of thing with someone like Malzahar, you just pop QSS which will take off his ult and his E, and welp all his stuff is on CD so gg. If you QSS Zed ult he can just autoattack you to death and recast his spells since they have such low CD. And QSS doesn't remove the 3rd shadow which will cast things at you too and allow him another mobility option. And it doesn't stop the Ult from dodging one of your abilities in the first place.

He needs to lose power on his basic abilities. Idk why he has such incredibly OP basic abilities to begin with while being Energy and having one of the single strongest Ults in the game.

Meep ManApr 18, 20162 votes

Zed isn't broken. He is just annoying. People need to stop confusing these two words. Zed isn't incredibly powerful, but he is one of the best champions at killing another champion in the game and that's what makes him hated. He is the one to be showered with that hate and if it wasn't him, it would be the next best Assassin at killing enemy champions.

Also, Zed's basic abilities are actually all pretty subpar. His E is a small burst of damage that is limitied to being around him. His Q is a low damage by itself skill shot that pierces. Most people say "But he can W" but that's two spells he has used. Saying Zed can WQ is the same value as saying, for example, a Vel'Koz can EW. Two spells equals two spells worth of outcome.

VekknaApr 18, 20163 votes

His Q is the highest damage skill of any comparable skill in the entire game. If you're talking about short-CD ranged basic skillshots, Zed's Q is only outdamaged starting with spells with 9+ sec CD, longer cast delays, and with 100+ mana cost per cast.

You're basically saying "the best is subpar," which is a literal contradiction. His Q is low damage compared to what? A mage's ultimate? Even that's not always true.

The thing is that not only is Zed's tooltip damage high, his damage is even higher with his double-dipping damage multipliers on W and R. Then, his damage is even higher due to the ArPen that falls on him like mana from heaven. Then, he gets spectacularly high EHP relative to mages.

SnugglePuggle94Apr 18, 20161 votes

Not to mention he also has the Duskblade "ult"!

Critmaster GarenApr 18, 20165 votes

Chogath Ryze Swain

hello, all the new catalyst items.

of the mid lane mages Annie because of the hextech belt.

honestly, i think all those new items are buffing top lane mages who like building ap/hp items more than midlane mages.

Zero Skill TankApr 18, 20162 votes

? New Catalyst grants almost nothing compared to the old one in lane, ROA got heavily nerfed(although the price got reduced too), especially for Ryze, so late game it is not better at all, and the only new Catalyst item is GLP/frostcannon.

I don't think it is likely to break those guys, as all of tehm have ranged CC anyways.

Critmaster GarenApr 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

? New Catalyst grants almost nothing compared to the old one in lane, ROA got heavily nerfed(although the price got reduced too), especially for Ryze, so late game it is not better at all, and the only new Catalyst item is GLP/frostcannon.

I don't think it is likely to break those guys, as all of tehm have ranged CC anyways.

new catalyst items still grant a mix of hp/mana/armor. stat wise its exactly what ryze wants. considering the best option for a catalyst item used to be rod of ages, and stat wise the most effective build was stacking rod of ages, its still a buff for him.

because now ryze has a lot more options when it comes to stacking ap catalyst items.

Zero Skill TankApr 18, 20161 votes

new catalyst items still grant a mix of hp/mana/armor.

Only that changes to Catalyst itself mean that those guys will now have 1000+ less mana to spend in lane.

stacking ap catalyst items.

GLP and ROA together grant as much mana as single ROA grants now. Also they share Eternity passive, which is shitty, but still stacking them won't likely be viable.

VekknaApr 18, 20163 votes

New catalyst is garbage. Spending 1000 mana heals for the same as a health potion. Due to cooldowns, it's virtually impossible to spend 1000 mana in less than 12 seconds. And now that we have no regen, why would anyone want to spend mana that fast anyway?

TheWeatherWaxApr 19, 20161 votes

Hextech belt comes with the silence so it won't really be much for Annie, add in they are removing distortion, it's a nerf.

TheWeatherWaxApr 19, 20161 votes

I do agree though it seems like AP assassins are going to be problematic as always and AP bruisers got some bonuses, utility mages will probably fair ok but I think the rest of the AP mages are worse off.

It just looks like the other sub-classes are not going to be served by any of these items and are still going to be bad compared to ADC's etc

AbyssphereApr 18, 20162 votes

Zyra. Nobody is going to expect it because it's been so long since she's been popular but her kit already does almost everything you could want from a Mage and this rework is likely to make the crippling weaknesses that balance her less extreme. My prediction: "Zyra is overloaded and impossible to counter!" threads.

After that Vlad cos they're just not going to get his numbers right first time.

AmelieApr 18, 20161 votes

And then they remove even more of Zyra's movespeed to make up for her numbers. :^)

SnugglePuggle94Apr 18, 20162 votes

Yea I was thinking Zyra too. I hope she doesn't get to that point, I just want her a bit better than she is now.

Meep ManApr 18, 20162 votes

Exactly. It scares me.

RavenhaleApr 18, 20162 votes

Zyra already does a ton of damage. If her plants were more reliable, she'd be able to Solo Lane like Heimer. I don't know if she'll be an issue. It will be more of a "how do I play against her" thing, since she isn't a very popular pick.

I anticipate she will be Heimer/Illaoi oppressive once she is safely able to solo lane again.

OleandervineApr 18, 20162 votes

It's a bit early to be pulling the trigger on who will be OP. The only kit we've got remotely any info on was Cassiopeia's, and the rest is just wild wild speculation. Perhaps when the current PBE cycle ends and the new one begins, we'll see some kits, but until then, this is essentially pick your favorite and hope it's OP.

Meep ManApr 18, 20161 votes

That's the point, it's a blind guess. This isn't complaining, praising, or anything like that. The only champion I play of these are Vel'Koz and Malzahar and I chose Zyra. It's just a guess.

Vistha KaiApr 18, 20162 votes

Ezreal

He will get all Hextech items nerfed.

TheWeatherWaxApr 19, 20161 votes

Agreed, he's the reason mages can't have nice things (or well any lane come to think of it..)

Vistha KaiApr 19, 20161 votes

I won't mind if he gets Rocket Belt nerfed to the ground.

Nothing good will come out of it anyway.

TheWeatherWaxApr 19, 20161 votes

I'm expecting major nerfs to it and it to be removed pretty quickly honestly. It is a nice idea in theory but I don't think it will go well in live.

Vistha KaiApr 20, 20161 votes

The way one of the Rioters talked about the item, when it was first revealed, it wasn't even suppose to be put in PBE and yet, here we are.

TheWeatherWaxApr 20, 20161 votes

I've been watching it's usage on PBE all day.. Thus far, not seeing it being super useful but to be fair it's all on Hexakill so I'll have to wait longer to see whether or not it shows up. I have been seeing it on AP tanks as well as on everything else (so far not ADC's but I'm waiting for the Ezreal game with it.. I know it's coming).

The Voids CallApr 18, 20162 votes

AP Udyr Seriously almost every big AP change in the past has pushed this guy to insane levels of power, as well as every tank, and AD change, but w/e just gotta kite him

TheWeatherWaxApr 19, 20161 votes

Let's not forget Ezreal in that class of breaking everything.. Ezreal is the reason mages can't have nice things (even jungle mages)

Meep ManApr 18, 20161 votes

I think Zyra will be since I feel like a really good version of her would be like a more competitive Heimerdinger.

Who I think the majority of votes will go to is, however:

Vladimir
Cass
Malzahar
Zyra
Brand
Vel'Koz

SSShutTheDuckUpApr 18, 20162 votes

I have so many games with Zyra and I think she is strong AF. So I understand your concerns about her. She has the potential to be a nightmare after rework.

Meep ManApr 18, 20161 votes

Yeah, imagine all that burst she has right now, plus sustained damage area control PLUS HER AOE CC. Super scary.

VekknaApr 18, 20161 votes

And then you remember they're forcing her into the support role, which means less damage and no solo-lane viability.

VekknaApr 18, 20161 votes

Except they're balancing her as a support. In other words, she's getting the Karma treatment.

They will not be changing her plant AA targeting. They are not changing her to be fast or giving her mobility. They aren't giving her any sustain.

EvilMerodachApr 18, 20161 votes

Vlad with a dash...and he's one of the few that actually likes being as close as possible to his enemies (so he'll get full use out of the damage part of it too, not just the 'free' dash)....and pretty sure the item also is built from hp/ap....so unless they're remaking his passive he'll give up very little or nothing to buy it. Already calling it, they are going to nerf vlad, then nerf the item, then nerf vlad again.

Edit: assuming they do add the item. Also not saying I dislike the item..it's a unique idea..just, vlad will be really strong with it, probably more than Riot expects.

LuggApr 18, 20161 votes

Zyra is already very strong with her kit. If they improve the AI of her plants, she will be an absolute monster.

VekknaApr 18, 20161 votes

"Balanced for support."

She's getting Karma'd. RIP Zyra.

LuggApr 19, 20161 votes

Karma is quite good right now.

VekknaApr 19, 20161 votes

She's recently better after being designed out of mid and dumpstered for a long series of patches. I'm glad Karma's good right now. Getting Karma'd is still a thing.

Chaos Milk TeaApr 18, 20161 votes

Well, based on their new kits I would say.... Oh lol

Meep ManApr 18, 20161 votes

You know what a guess is? The lottery? Gambling? It's where you have no info and just guess. That's the point.

Chaos Milk TeaApr 18, 20161 votes

A guess is very different from the prediction you asked for.

It's already the lottery though without anyone even answering. Something happens, maybe something is broken, maybe something is weak. It gets patched later.

Meep ManApr 18, 20161 votes

Well, I mean, you can make somewhat of a prediction from the direction posts and items we have seen.

Adrian BlackbearApr 18, 20161 votes

I'm predicting Malz. But I have a feeling it will be Vlad only because he's getting compensation for Will of the Ancients being removed.

SasogwaApr 18, 20161 votes

item 3070 Veigar

TheLastShadow45Apr 18, 20161 votes

Cass.

StellafreyjaApr 18, 20161 votes

I'm guessing Vlad, mostly because he's been kept in an mediocre state due to synergy with WoTA. The removal of it and his rework means they can give him more power.

Zyra would be a close second. She already does crazy amounts of damage. But since she's being balanced around Support, I'm assuming a gutting will take place.