Can we get some AP items ??

LatoyaFromTheBX·May 18, 2018·6 votes·1,573 views

Instead of throwing out constant new AD items The ap items that came with the update sucked we need more variety. AP champs need love too

33 Comments

LeveretteMay 18, 20184 votes

I actually really agree with this. AD characters get all the cool toys, and AP characters don't even have enough items to have diverse builds, let alone be able to adjust their build to a specific issue presented to them in any given game. I get yelled at a lot (mage player) for not building against my opponent. But... there's no item to build against them! It's not my fault my AP item build is similar every game. Maybe if there was an actual variety of items I could adapt it to fit the circumstances...

AirKingNeoMay 18, 20181 votes

these new items are for bruisers, the literal most oppressed class

Are mage players on the boards so delusional that they think any AD item is an automatic offense to them, even if they're for classes who are much worse than any other class in the game?

rtbf221651412May 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

these new items are for bruisers, the literal most oppressed class

Are mage players on the boards so delusional that they think any AD item is an automatic offense to them, even if they're for classes who are much worse than any other class in the game?

It's more the fact that mages are getting nerfs when we are the burst along with assassins.

Meanwhile, ADC's easily burst with range as hard as assassin's and mages.

We also have less defensive options along with being countered harder than AD by HP and MR vs Armor.

Are you really that delusional to suggest otherwise?

AirKingNeoMay 18, 20181 votes

because mages are the best class mid lane right now and have a monopoly

ADCs are literally being nerfed on the SAME PATCH these new bruiser items are coming on

What? How is physical damage not countered by HP?

You're calling me delusional when you just said AD is only countered by armor, ignored ADCs being nerfed, and ignore mages being strong?

rtbf221651412May 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

because mages are the best class mid lane right now and have a monopoly

ADCs are literally being nerfed on the SAME PATCH these new bruiser items are coming on

What? How is physical damage not countered by HP?

You're calling me delusional when you just said AD is only countered by armor, ignored ADCs being nerfed, and ignore mages being strong?

Did you just say that** Armor does more against AD **than MR does against AP?

Do you even play this game?

Secondly, HP get's melted fast by true damage and attack speed. Guess who has both the most?

Again, do you even play this game?

Also, I doubt you played the PBE as well as you forget the fact that true damage is going to be EVEN MORE of a problem.

Third, I never said HP can't counter AD. I said it hard counters AP in comparison to AD. How to read 101.

AD's that dominate mid? How about Zed Yasuo for starters? You know... The AD champions that are actually designed well enough to fit into mid?

I'm not sugar coating anymore. You want to start a problem, I'll end it as viciously as you want me to.

Assassins and Mages both have problems.

Fizz is BOTH.

Evelynn nerfed by multiple indirect patches cause Rito always does that to her and she doesn't even go mid.

AirKingNeoMay 18, 20181 votes

I am not the person who said, "We also have less defensive options along with being countered harder than AD by HP and MR vs Armor." You said only AP was countered by HP.

Secondly, HP get's melted fast by true damage and attack speed. Guess who has both the most?

No... HP is just melted fast by damage. Attack speed isn't something unique to dealing damage vs HP... (Do people read your posts before upvoting you?)

Also, I doubt you played the PBE as well as you forget the fact that true damage is going to be EVEN MORE of a problem.

More of a problem? That implies that there is one in the first place! Conqueror sucks and only 2 champions can be played competitively with it. Ask any high elo top player and they'll say it sucks. New IE is 15% true damage on your crits versus the old 50% more on crits.

Third, I never said HP can't counter AD. I said it hard counters AP in comparison to AD. How to read 101.

HP is literally the same effectiveness against all damage. You just said it counters AP harder when it literally makes you more survivable against both (in fact, since people buy more armor, it's more effective against physical damage).

Y'know, for the once in the last year or two, assassins mid are actually viable. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/middle/diamond

I'm not sugar coating anymore. You want to start a problem, I'll end it as viciously as you want me to.

Pretty sure the person who started the problem was the person who's classifying bruiser items as something ADCs and assassins can build.

Fizz is a mage? What? Evelynn could use nerfs right now... It's not like it's a new topic or anything...

Do you even play this game?

Yes, I do. Now, could you please tell me why you said, "Meanwhile, ADC's easily burst with range as hard as assassin's and mages." when ADCs are being nerfed this next patch?

rtbf221651412May 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I'm not gonna read therefore I will spout random stuff.

Fixed. Honestly, don't bother saying anything.

{quoted}

so if we look at playrates per capita mid lane for the past year why do mages have an overwhelming majority?

Mid lane isn't just AP mages you know.

AirKingNeoMay 23, 20182 votes

but mid lane is majority mages and hold a majority of the playrate per capita.

rtbf221651412May 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

but mid lane is majority mages and hold a majority of the playrate per capita.

False statement: Akali Ahri Azir Ekko Diana Katarina Yasuo Zed

With the possible exception of Azir being an actually 'mage':

Most of these are AP or AD assassins.

Idk what Diana is supposed to be. AP fighter?

AirKingNeoMay 23, 20181 votes

akali, ahri, azir, ekko, and diana's playrates are shit

rtbf221651412May 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

akali, ahri, azir, ekko, and diana's playrates are shit

Okay, and?

Also, did you just say Ahri's playrate was shit?

Pick Rate: 7th /47 8.93%

3rd tier mid champion

Where is your research man?

AirKingNeoMay 24, 20181 votes

10th at 5.5% actually https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/middle/diamond and she's a mage

rtbf221651412May 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

10th at 5.5% actually https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/middle/diamond and she's a mage

She used to be an assassin subclass. She is a burst mage.

Also: http://na.op.gg/champion/ahri/statistics/mid

I'll wait until you realize you were wrong about the MR HP point.

AirKingNeoMay 24, 20181 votes

She used to be an assassin subclass.

Keywords, used to be.

Also Op.gg is Korea Plat+ only, not global Diamond+.

rtbf221651412May 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Keywords, used to be.

Also Op.gg is Korea Plat+ only, not global Diamond+.

Damn she is 3 picks lower out of 47 mids. Much amazing difference. Such wow.

VoraciousXMay 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I am not the person who said, "We also have less defensive options along with being countered harder than AD by HP and MR vs Armor." You said only AP was countered by HP.

No... HP is just melted fast by damage. Attack speed isn't something unique to dealing damage vs HP... (Do people read your posts before upvoting you?)

More of a problem? That implies that there is one in the first place! Conqueror sucks and only 2 champions can be played competitively with it. Ask any high elo top player and they'll say it sucks. New IE is 15% true damage on your crits versus the old 50% more on crits.

HP is literally the same effectiveness against all damage. You just said it counters AP harder when it literally makes you more survivable against both (in fact, since people buy more armor, it's more effective against physical damage).

Y'know, for the once in the last year or two, assassins mid are actually viable. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/middle/diamond

Pretty sure the person who started the problem was the person who's classifying bruiser items as something ADCs and assassins can build.

Fizz is a mage? What? Evelynn could use nerfs right now... It's not like it's a new topic or anything...

Yes, I do. Now, could you please tell me why you said, "Meanwhile, ADC's easily burst with range as hard as assassin's and mages." when ADCs are being nerfed this next patch?

Let's see why mages do less damage to HP than ADs...hm....maybe it's item 3153 , maybe it's item 3036 , or maybe it's that every crit you probably deal 1/10th of their health, meaning in around 7 seconds with a crit build you can kill them. Add on a and that makes it even faster. Mages only have one option, item 3151 , and it pretty much requires 2 full items to even be somewhat effective, and their cooldowns aren't low enough to keep it going so it's not REALLY an option, at least not for the reason it was intended.

LeveretteMay 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

because mages are the best class mid lane right now and have a monopoly

Okay how dare you say mages have a monopoly? First off, almost half of every game has an AD character mid, whether it's Yasuo or Zed or Gangplank or Talon or Varus or Lucian or whoever the hell they put mid.

Second, and most importantly: AD damage dealers are the expected choice in EVERY OTHER ROLE! AD is also the only damage type considered mandatory to have in a game: Marksmen. Besides them, supports aren't intended to be damage dealers at all, with Brand being a single unpleasant outlier. Top lane is dominated by AD damage dealers or tanks who don't subscribe to damage at all, with the jungle being exactly the same. Seriously, do you actually play this game?

AirKingNeoMay 18, 20181 votes

Okay how dare you say mages have a monopoly?

#How dare I state a basic fact that you can figure out in a single google search?! Curse the man who dared to research and build his argument based on facts rather than feelings!

Second, and most importantly: AD damage dealers are the expected choice in EVERY OTHER ROLE! AD is also the only damage type considered mandatory to have in a game: Marksmen.

That's because having magic damage is an advantage. It is harder to itemize against. That's why DPS mages are so fucking hard to balance.

Top lane is dominated by AD damage dealers or tanks who don't subscribe to damage at all, with the jungle being exactly the same. Seriously, do you actually play this game?

Top lane has always been tanks or AD bruisers. Is this even a complaint? Facing a mage top lane isn't fun.

Evelynn is one of the highest presence junglers right now sporting a solid 22% banrate. AP junglers just SUCK because Runic Echoes SUCKS, but these are completely irrelevant to mid lane.

LeveretteMay 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

#How dare I state a basic fact that you can figure out in a single google search?! Curse the man who dared to research and build his argument based on facts rather than feelings!

That's because having magic damage is an advantage. It is harder to itemize against. That's why DPS mages are so fucking hard to balance.

Top lane has always been tanks or AD bruisers. Is this even a complaint? Facing a mage top lane isn't fun.

Evelynn is one of the highest presence junglers right now sporting a solid 22% banrate. AP junglers just SUCK because Runic Echoes SUCKS, but these are completely irrelevant to mid lane.

It is NOT a basic fact that mages are all that exists in mid lane, it is indisputably incorrect. What YOU refer to is that mid lane was SUPPOSED to be monopolized by mages, but in fact is not because people like Yasuo, Zed, Talon and such have been consistently popular picks mid lane for years, the first two of which boast a higher popularity (during most eras of the game) than the aforementioned mages to begin with, and with each era always bringing specific ADs to the lane in addition to the persistent ones. There is always at any point in time a very, very solid chance that there will be an AD in mid lane in any given game, and honestly I see 2 of them mid unreasonably often. A monopoly doesn't mean you own a portion, it means you are the sole owner with no significant opposition. So... yeah, that's right out, now isn't it Mr. Condescending Douche? Or are you going to tell me that google also says AD characters were never popular picks mid lane and that we just simply have to believe that because "Hey google said it right?"

Also I'm pretty sure AD has a lot more viable ways to build against AP item 3156 item 3139 item 3137 item 3091 than AP has to build against AD item 3157 , DESPITE the overwhelming difference in popularity, and the fact that minions/monsters/turrets/dragons all do PHYSICAL damage, so you'd think there might be more options for AP to build against such a ridiculously oversaturated damage type considering that same damage type has 4x the amount of options (and that's before considering that very many AD also like buying tank items whereas even Warlocks like Ryze and Vlad are no good with those) to build against them. Not to mention item 3111 is way easier for an AD to build than item 3047 is for mages because unlike you guys, half of our available flat penetration is tied to our boots, effectively demanding we not be allowed to build against the situation because we're required to buy those.

All this thread is supposed to be about is that AP characters should be allowed to have more build diversity, and I don't see why you have to go bringing in a whole bunch of irrelevant factors like Eve jungle or that the game intended (and failed) to have at least one position where mages were supposed to be able to call their own. Most, if not all, mages suffer from having to build just about the same way every time, as though the entire AP role were comparable to the ADC role, which of course is not true because things like Warlocks and Enchanters exist as well, to name a couple. Are you arguing just to argue or is there a legitimate reason why you are so adamantly against mages having nice options too?

AirKingNeoMay 19, 20181 votes

so if we look at playrates per capita mid lane for the past year why do mages have an overwhelming majority?

KoKobotoMay 18, 20183 votes

Yeah it kinda sucks. Looking at the new AD items and than you just got items like item 3907

Like compare new item 3508 to item 3907 ...

Pika FoxMay 18, 20182 votes

AP items literally just got an overhaul.

rtbf221651412May 18, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pQ04RMee,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-18T03:51:21.344+0000)

AP items literally just got an overhaul.

So we burst less than ADC's.

LatoyaFromTheBXMay 18, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pQ04RMee,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-18T03:51:21.344+0000)

AP items literally just got an overhaul.

the update sucked

DW DianaMay 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pQ04RMee,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-18T03:51:21.344+0000)

AP items literally just got an overhaul.

You realize most of them are worse off for it right? xD

Pika FoxMay 23, 20181 votes

What world do you live in where most of the AP items were nerfed? Mages got a 20% CDR opening item, AA/Tear got a massive usability buff, ludens is actually buildable again

The only item that got a "nerf" was morellos, and even then its not a nerf so much as its no longer a 100% required first item for every mage or youre just trolling.

AirKingNeoMay 18, 20181 votes

You did. You got 2 mage updates.

Now bruisers get some items now. Stop saying AD like ADCs and assassins can use them.

LatoyaFromTheBXMay 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You did. You got 2 mage updates.

Now bruisers get some items now. Stop saying AD like ADCs and assassins can use them.

do you know WHY we needed 2 updates? because the itemization for AP champions is complete garbage the new Stormrazor can be used on AD assassins which is what a huge problem is right now Stormrazor + Duskblade is pretty OP

AirKingNeoMay 18, 20181 votes

Why? Because Riot's design item sucks.

Again, what the fuck does that have to do with the fact BRUISERS SUCK AND NEED HELP?

LeveretteMay 18, 20181 votes

Why are we talking about who's strong and who's weak? That's not what this is about. This is about a lack of AP item diversity. The jungle has 4 items for junglers and only one of which is AP. The others get to choose what benefit they want but we're forced to take one specific item every time, then get yelled at for not building against the enemy. Man what am I supposed to build? There is no AP/MR item besides Banshee's Veil. There is no AP/Armor item besides Zhonya's. Liandry's is so weak that you're always better off getting Morellonomicon under any circumstance even if you already have Rylai's, so there are zero sustained damage options. We have one mobility option, Spellbinder, and that's literally the only non-AP stat that it gives.

I am in favor of helping oppressed classes like bruisers. I play the hell out of bruisers too. I love bruisers. But them having issues doesn't mean AP characters shouldn't be allowed to have item diversity. If I want armor, I am obligated to either go Zhonya's or a full tank item. What if I need more armor? I have to buy a second Zhonya's! I know bruisers have their own problems, but at least you don't have to buy two Guardian Angels or two Mercurial Scimitars just to have the stats to survive an invisible Rengar jumping at you from 1000 units away. It's not like we've got runes for those stats anymore!

If you made a post about bruisers needing help, you wouldn't want me telling you bruisers shouldn't get help because mages need item diversity would you? Why not just support EVERYONE that actually needs help instead of being an ass?

KaiokoMay 23, 20181 votes

While I'm all for more AP items some of your examples are really incorrect. For example -- there's 4 jungle items -- one is tank, one AD, one AP and one Attack Speed (which can benefit both AD and AP).