I really don't know how you went through with Pyke changes

DeusVult··78 votes·15,444 views

The whole double gold deal

Just played vs a Pyke top. He ended the game with 52 farm, he went 19/11/5, taking the majority of his teams kills with ult, and made 19K gold. In comparison, I went 18/6/12, had 167 farm, and ended the game with 18.5K gold. That also includes 7 plates that Pyke didnt get, and our team killed 11 towers to their 2, along with 4 drakes and 2 barons to their 1 drake.

Yet, Pyke, just playing like an absolute fiesta clown, can out earn someone who is farming, taking objectives across the map, and winning the game. Fantastic change Rito. As the youths say "thanks, I hate it"

29 Comments

Death by Glamour56 votes

Clearly it wasn't to sell an upcoming skin.

XJ999999999999997 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pNkhZr43,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-27T21:07:37.548+0000)

Clearly it wasn't to sell an upcoming skin.

they will nerf him 1-2 patches after

JuiceBoxP19 votes

Yep.

General Esdeath 15 votes

Well they gotta make him somehow pop up in LC$

SEKAI2 votes

[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pNkhZr43,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-27T23:10:00.988+0000)

Well they gotta make him somehow pop up in LC$

He was already everywhere on the LCS. They're just trying to make him the face of LCS.

FFS, Pyke's problem has always been his R, and one of the 2 problem of it is that it duplicates gold for his team being tied to a chain-execute ability (not only is it overloaded as hell, it also completely circumvent Pyke spamming R may lead to a gold sinking problem which is how a chain-kill champ is meant to be balanced around). But you know what, Riot just just buffed it because his R isn't OP enough I guess. Fuck I am trolled, well played Riot.

Dynikus6 votes

I agree that it's stupid. Just want to preface with that. But is it possible some of that gold advantage came from shutdown bonuses?

DeusVult23 votes

He only got 3 shutdowns, 1 on me for 800 and 2 on Qiyana

that would account for maybe the difference generated by turrets taken, plates taken, and maybe neutral objectives. Not for being down 100+ CS and still having a gold advantage

Exin01 votes

{quoted}

I agree that it's stupid. Just want to preface with that. But is it possible some of that gold advantage came from shutdown bonuses?

Even then its bonkers. I remember like yesterday neverending influx of posts about how are supps too strong, have too much agency, too much gold etc. and riot swing nerf hammer multiple times directly and indirectly and then they introduce pyke champion who use all this powers short of infinite shields freely while other support get gutted for much smaller things. Not mentioning he become riot sanctioned funneling strategy while others get shuted down hard.

JinXed4life2 votes

{quoted}

I agree that it's stupid. Just want to preface with that. But is it possible some of that gold advantage came from shutdown bonuses?

Yeah, in the shape of his passive giving him 600 free gold on kills. What bullshit. They say they want to make him more of a supp champ, and then they buff the shit out of him, making his roams doubly more effective if you can land his ult. Like that is sooo hard to do. Wouldn't be surprised to see him played mid with this buff.

HAXOR0995 votes

{quoted}

I agree that it's stupid. Just want to preface with that. But is it possible some of that gold advantage came from shutdown bonuses?

Did people actually downvote you for asking a serious honest question, jesus these boards are full of toxic %%%%s who dont like it when there opinion isnt validated by others

Rit0 is SJW5 votes

Riot is creating a perfect shitstorm of extremely strong and objectively good tiered picks. If tier lists never existed before, it would NOW.

jocomotion5 votes

Yeah. I don’t hate or play Pyke, but honestly he’s one of the few new champions I legit love in terms of kit and design. So when they gutted his solo laning and made him an Ult bot I found it... sad? Depressing? Pathetic of the balance team? Take your pick.

Like I get it, If he could solo lane and snowball others he’s just a better Talon with Hard CC and self heal, but then why not just nerf his solo burst? Or put a longer cooldown on his W? Or just do ANYTHING ELSE.

Baby Ghoul4 votes

I don't know what Riot was thinking when they designed him in the first place.

At least we know why Riot is making us endure this buff.

$$$Pr0j3T pYk3$$$

[sg-lulu]

kyf116vini3 votes

lmao but pyke cant lane at all right now. your team was either terrible or you didnt do your job as toplaner, but I strongly doubt the champ itself is a problem. All the changes that have been done in the last patches destroyed his laning completely. Just learn to ping, put pinks and cs and lane control. Also, you can anihilate him in lane. He literally cant farm or roam until 6. I geniuenly dont get this post

TyRamos2 votes

The thing is, these are edge cases, if you look at Pyke overall this patch, hes still placed #93 overall for gold. Support only has him at #10, and while top shows him as #2, he only has a 2% playrate, so its a super small size of players.

FrancesbSmAt2 votes

it doesn't matter lol champions have zero incidence on the game, it's only riot deciding who wins and who loses if you get the feeders, you lose they get the feeders, you win simple as this

Lock On2 votes

It's god-awfully balanced on top of a loaded kit. It's like Riot isn't even trying. Haven't bought more than $10 of content this year so long as they continue to mindlessly spawn poorly-designed champions. This is like Kalista where the kit seems like a cool idea but has an extremely powerful niche role in pro play so they nerf it to the ground till it's useless. This is champ was simply a bad idea from the start.

Catastroclysm2 votes

It's almost as if he's designed around gaining bonus gold, and the power level of the rest of his kit is numbered appropriately around this! O:

You should probably complain about TF and GP too right? :)

DeusVult3 votes

Riot bringing pirate passive to SR?!?!?!?!?

Jennifer4202 votes

2 reasons: after they gutted pyke top by taking his entire waveclear they knew its too obvious the hate on euw from riftrivals. 2. pyke skin.

3TWarrior1 votes

do you know whether he ran Klepto or not? that can massively increase gold gain. i'm not sure how pyke would use it, but if he found a way how, it would decrease his dependence on farm

SiG DxD1 votes

legendary skin for more dollars

KFCeytron1 votes

They might not punish players for breaking the meta, but they certainly do try to force one via balance changes.

...which they horribly fail at, holy moly. Why kneecap him out of everywhere but support if they're gonna give him such an overtuned compensation buff that he can still solo lane anyway.

Teh Song1 votes

Pyke has one of the most easily dodgeable kits in the game. Q, easily dodged. E, easily dodged. R, easily dodged.

Q is as any line attack with non-instant movement speed is. E has a delay, a clear indicator, and requires himself to be in risky positioning. R is an X. It's size isn't that impressive, and it's an X. You don't even half to get out if range, just between the lines.

His ult is an execute. Especially since the new patch, it deals minimal damage. He can barely hurt you with it. Below threshold is death by execution, above threshold it just tickles you. You can heal after his animation starts and get back above threshold. It happens all the time, even just from lifesteal.

Pyke can't get more hp. Most defensive items are trash on him because without the HP they lose so much gold efficiency, and without HP gains armor/Mr is only so effective anyway. Plus the 14 to 1 hp to ad conversion is so minuscule that getting ad from hp isn't a thought people have when building him. The sustain from Pyke's W is his only real defensive option. Without it he'd be nothing; unplayable.

Pyke isn't going to get your hp low enough for execution by himself. His kit outside ult is utility; 2 CC's and his sustain, with minimal damage. His execute will kill you, sure, but only if his team did the rest of the damage first. In short, he's not really an assassin, because he can't assassinate. He's just an executor. He even has voice lines when he dies in a 1v1 to remind the player that he's not supposed to be able to 1v1. "I work better with a crew." "Needed more hands." Etc.

Pyke is hands down the most gold reliant support in the game. Without the ability to raise your hp if you need extra defense you have to be able to buy more armor/mr than other supports. Because of his lethality scaling you want to get all 3 lethality items. He doesn't have any defensive skills for use on allies so if you want/need something like that you have to get an item for it. On top of all that, picking Pyke into a team is a composition choice to have a support with less support utility as a trade off for increasing your team's gold advantage, but Pyke needs his own gold to pull that off. As a support, he's not getting much cs, so he needs his ult gold to compensate.

Now, personally, I'd prefer he had less gold gain for the team on his ult and a more effective kit, but I also want him to be more or less cemented as a support instead of being able to solo lane.

At any rate if you're having trouble against Pyke supports here's 3 tips for you:

  1. Since he's so dodge-able, take something that can dodge easy. You could be Ezreal and just never get hit by any of Pyke's abilities, for example.

  2. In early/laning phase, hurt his adc, not him. He can't do anything without them, and he can't defend them (in the sense of defensive things like heals and shields). If you make them back or die, you are now 2v1 and that 1 is useless while alone.

  3. As I said before, he's no tank. He's as squishy as they come. "He has high base stats." Yea, and that's it, since he can't build any more hp and the effectiveness of building armor and MR is limited by that. Squishy AF. So once your far enough into the game that you can do more than just a little poke, just kill him. You can kill him before he can escape and heal so easily. And once he's dead, he can't ult you.

Morbys5 votes

As someone who mained Pyke even before the change, ignoring him early is a mistake, considering he does more dmg than the adc for awhile. Focus him b/c he is more likely to make mistakes, and punish bot when their adc is passively farming, thats the best way to beat pyke support.

Beacon Academy2 votes

I wouldn't bother mate.

  • He stated that Pyke's kit is easy to dodge
  • He also has high death count on Pyke
  • As well as a high death count on all the champions he has played.

He is most likely just using his own inadequacies as reasoning for his argument.

Ashryver Queen 1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pNkhZr43,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-07-28T16:51:50.740+0000)

Pyke has one of the most easily dodgeable kits in the game. Q, easily dodged. E, easily dodged. R, easily dodged.

Q is as any line attack with non-instant movement speed is. E has a delay, a clear indicator, and requires himself to be in risky positioning. R is an X. It's size isn't that impressive, and it's an X. You don't even half to get out if range, just between the lines.

His ult is an execute. Especially since the new patch, it deals minimal damage. He can barely hurt you with it. Below threshold is death by execution, above threshold it just tickles you. You can heal after his animation starts and get back above threshold. It happens all the time, even just from lifesteal.

Pyke can't get more hp. Most defensive items are trash on him because without the HP they lose so much gold efficiency, and without HP gains armor/Mr is only so effective anyway. Plus the 14 to 1 hp to ad conversion is so minuscule that getting ad from hp isn't a thought people have when building him. The sustain from Pyke's W is his only real defensive option. Without it he'd be nothing; unplayable.

Pyke isn't going to get your hp low enough for execution by himself. His kit outside ult is utility; 2 CC's and his sustain, with minimal damage. His execute will kill you, sure, but only if his team did the rest of the damage first. In short, he's not really an assassin, because he can't assassinate. He's just an executor. He even has voice lines when he dies in a 1v1 to remind the player that he's not supposed to be able to 1v1. "I work better with a crew." "Needed more hands." Etc.

Pyke is hands down the most gold reliant support in the game. Without the ability to raise your hp if you need extra defense you have to be able to buy more armor/mr than other supports. Because of his lethality scaling you want to get all 3 lethality items. He doesn't have any defensive skills for use on allies so if you want/need something like that you have to get an item for it. On top of all that, picking Pyke into a team is a composition choice to have a support with less support utility as a trade off for increasing your team's gold advantage, but Pyke needs his own gold to pull that off. As a support, he's not getting much cs, so he needs his ult gold to compensate.

Now, personally, I'd prefer he had less gold gain for the team on his ult and a more effective kit, but I also want him to be more or less cemented as a support instead of being able to solo lane.

At any rate if you're having trouble against Pyke supports here's 3 tips for you:

  1. Since he's so dodge-able, take something that can dodge easy. You could be Ezreal and just never get hit by any of Pyke's abilities, for example.

  2. In early/laning phase, hurt his adc, not him. He can't do anything without them, and he can't defend them (in the sense of defensive things like heals and shields). If you make them back or die, you are now 2v1 and that 1 is useless while alone.

  3. As I said before, he's no tank. He's as squishy as they come. "He has high base stats." Yea, and that's it, since he can't build any more hp and the effectiveness of building armor and MR is limited by that. Squishy AF. So once your far enough into the game that you can do more than just a little poke, just kill him. You can kill him before he can escape and heal so easily. And once he's dead, he can't ult you.

You literally keep copy-pasting this absolutely idiotic, subjective and misinformed comment on every Pyke post out there and have been called out and invalidated for it a hundred times over. People have very thoroughly broken down and pointed out the flaws in your ridiculous and inaccurate analysis many times over and here you are, spamming it again like a goddamned monkey that feels proud because it learned how to open a jar and fancies itself intelligent. You're not. You're an idiot; I don't know how more bluntly to point out that, no, your downvotes are a testament to your stupidity, not a martyr's woes against the misinformed masses that you in your barely functional brain are perceiving as cathartic statements. Stop copy-pasting this cancer everywhere, you're not only worsening how you're perceived in the boards but are also counter-productively (to your own self-established and miserable cause, which you mentioned in another post along the lines of "educating" or some other bull) validating people for rightfully asking for Pyke nerfs. You sound like a Yasuo main. Shut. Up.

Sinister Anubis1 votes

{quoted}

The whole double gold deal

Just played vs a Pyke top. He ended the game with 52 farm, he went 19/11/5, taking the majority of his teams kills with ult, and made 19K gold. In comparison, I went 18/6/12, had 167 farm, and ended the game with 18.5K gold. That also includes 7 plates that Pyke didnt get, and our team killed 11 towers to their 2, along with 4 drakes and 2 barons to their 1 drake.

Yet, Pyke, just playing like an absolute fiesta clown, can out earn someone who is farming, taking objectives across the map, and winning the game. Fantastic change Rito. As the youths say "thanks, I hate it"

I completely agree. Also do something about his healing its a bit much and really makes laning vs him really pointless. Either nerf it by atleast 50% or 40% hp back they could also nerf how fast he gets it back or how long he needs to be unseen before it kicks in, also he shouldn't get any back while still in combat.

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