Why is Riot going ahead with yet more Sona Nerfs, when the real culprit is the dual Gold items?

Illabethe··5 votes·2,259 views

Riot:

While it may seem like we're doing this just because of the in-vogue bot lane Sona, she's been extremely close to our thresholds for acceptable win rates (outlined in our Balance Framework that you should go read if you haven't already) in solo queue for awhile and is the most commonly banned bot lane champion in pro play right now.

We're also seeing more than just Sona with Taric, mind you. We're seeing Sona and Tahm Kench, Sona and Pyke, etc. which points toward specifically nerfing her rather than Taric. To be clear, we're not explicitly trying to kill Sona + XX bot lanes: Even if she were a standard bot carry, she'd still be deserving of a nerf on multiple fronts.

WRONG RIOT.

What makes the lane work:

item 3303 + item 3302 + Klepto.

It has NOTHING TO DO WITH SONA's "Strengths."

It has to do with the fact in this lane she has THREE incomes!

There was a reason Riot nerfed item 3302 in regards to adcs! Because..... it created a dual income lane and because it allowed adcs to heal supports.

There's a reason Riot changed item 3304 +item 3303 to not be reliable proccers on solo lanes (dual incomes)

There's a reason Riot changed item 1039 + item 3303 to be impossible to purchase on the same champion (dual incomes)


What dual income/wards is left? AD Melee champions and a poke support!

Close the loophole. Don't nerf a champ you've applied 4 consecutive nerfs to!


This is also a strategy Riot itself notes is a PRO PLAY PROBLEM.

In the one pro play game I saw it played in, C9 Sneaky and his Taric also SHARED the CS (Both ended game with about 140 CS)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=3_OQdTOv7aI

^ Watch. Gold income is why this works. NOT some in born Champ advantage.......

14 Comments

Galiö3 votes

Sona is/was strong in soloQ with or without double support.

Sona is only strong in Pro because of duel support items.

I figure they felt that they should hit her for both rather than remove it entirely.

Illabethe1 votes

After her Season 7 end nerf, she's consistently been a 49-51% champ..... I know you may have personal experiences which feel bad because she reverted to pure Lich Bane/AP Rush from an enchanter build, but the stats support her not being strong.

Galiö1 votes

She had been at lowest 50% start of 2018 and was 53% winrate average for yeaaarrsss shortly before and shortly after that period.

She was never 'bad' she is just a late game damage support with utility.

Illabethe1 votes

No. She's never been "bad." But... it's because of itemization switched away from enchanting to damage dealing. If you tracked my posts at the time of the Season 7 end rework, that's what I told Sona players to do! There's a reason most Sonas no longer start core Sona items, but start item 3003 or item 3285 .

Pika Fox2 votes

Sona is and will always be busted until she gets a full rework. Either her auras or her actives need to go. Passive free stats for full team always causes issues.

D357R0Y3R1 votes

because they want adc sona to still be a thing, they said it in the patch notes

but removing double support items would remove adc sona

Illabethe1 votes

She doesn't even play ADC in this setup. She plays dual Support. Taric/Tahm take the CS, not Sona. She only takes CS after quest is complete.

boricCentaur11 votes

Why nerf or removed something FOR ONE CHAMPION that is dumb and the nerfs ONLY hurt the problem, support sona is basically not touched.

Illabethe2 votes

Right. So I'll go ADC Zyra and make it a thing on other Spellthief users.

I'll go do it on Soraka too.

How about adc Nami? That sounds more powerful than Sona/Taric. Nami + Taric = CC lock.

The only reason that this isn't a conversation of other Spellthief users yet, is because this is a relatively new strategy. It works on ALL bot lane combinations.

The Jungle item 3098 restriction was put in exclusively for Evelynn abusing it. The Solo Lane restriction for item 3303 item 3304 were almost entirely for Karma Top Lane.

P.S. Barely touched? Her Q is losing up to a potential 100-110 damage per cast. Her E is losing HALF its Move speed scaling on a champ that has no on board CC other than her Ult...... whut?

Et Tu Geddn XNa 1 votes

1 Sona prob needed a nerf and 2 Riot dont know how to nerf spellthiefs in particular. If u ask me i wish they removed it or reworked it to something more interesting that didnt fit in ap supps.

Illabethe1 votes

I've already suggested the fix:

If you own a gold income item, you cannot recieve the effects of other gold income items.

Ie..... either Taric or Sona would have to decide who is the support and "who is the CSer"

Sona could still CS...... if she feels like legitimately farming rather than dual supporting.

LevitationStar1 votes

Think I know a way to fix it but it will require a new summoner spell that is specific to supports . The current problem with support items is the same we had for jungles items which was solved by limiting jungle items to jungles who are using smite. Also the gold nerf from minions if the owner was the highest gold in game. To implement the idea , we need a new must have summoner spell fit supports that will enable the use of gold items. This summoner spell should affect the linked champion to you , normally the arc . The link can be done just as Khalista Forms her link. The spell could perform something similar to some existing items that remove stuns from your ally or heal them . Or it could be dependent on other items you purchase . You can even remove Qss from game and let it be a support ability . That might make for more interesting games , when you have champions like Skarnar in the game .

chipndip11 votes

Sona's overtuned and they'll likely nerf her again.

Illabethe1 votes

Except...... she's not.

Unless you're accusing Riot of balancing Season 1-8 around champs being able to achieve 53-54% win rates regularly.

Literally everything done to Sona since Season 6 has been a nerf. Even the new runes. Even Archangel.

Unlike other 50+% champions, Sona has legitimate counterplay; no real CC, no real dash mobility. Also starts off with longer cooldowns than other champs, and higher mana costs.

The literal only difference: Since the Season 7 nerf, Sona Rushes a Luden's or AA, something Sona didn't do before. And the fact recently she has 3 different incomes.

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