How about making towers relevant so diving immobile carries is actually risky?

Yenn·Jan 3, 2017·100 votes·2,589 views

Versus the shit we have now, where you just get repeatedly dived from 100% health with zero counter play because the tower does fuck all to protect you

77 Comments

General Esdeath Jan 3, 201721 votes

What pisses me off more is when someone walks into turret range and stands there tanking ( Shyvana ) while the laner ( Riven ) auto attacks you under tower and the turret says "HOLD ON THERE FRIEND I'M GETTING THE REAL THREAT OVER HERE!!!"

kalanzoJan 3, 20177 votes

LOL This legit made me laugh for 5 minutes.

General Esdeath Jan 3, 20174 votes

YOU THINK THIS IS FUNNY?!?

https://i.imgur.com/HS5vGRW.jpg

Shifue DravenJan 3, 20171 votes

The funny thing is i did this on shy while my riven killed the garen(think it was garen sorry if this was you).

General Esdeath Jan 3, 20172 votes

Nah, I play Riven mostly.

Kitten of EvilJan 3, 20171 votes

You don't even have to be a bruisery Shyvana to tank tower. In a recent game I roamed up from mid as Taliyah and took aggro for 6-7 tower shots while my top laner and jungle beat down the enemy Camille under tower.

Like at this point, anyone at full health (except maybe a Sona) can tank turret shots for a teammate or two during a tower dive.

General Esdeath Jan 3, 20171 votes

Now imagine a Shyv taking 20 while the enemy plays it really bad.

Kitten of EvilJan 3, 20171 votes

Ugh that's the worst. Shyv dives on Lux under turret. Shyv misses W. Lux exhausts Shyv and runs behind tower. Lux snares Shyv, and Shyv still gets away at 1/3 health despite whiffing part of her combo and Lux snaring her under tower.

General Esdeath Jan 3, 20171 votes

But towers are perfectly fine 100% no worries no problems here. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

MinaZer0Jan 4, 20171 votes

many different options here:

Make turrets aggro the one actually attacking champions/change targets to the one currently attacking a champion, as it currently switches off of minions to champions targets when attacking enemy champions.
increase the turrets atk spd
make turrets ignore a high % of tank stats earlier on in the game like 75%

just to name a few ideas.

General Esdeath Jan 4, 20171 votes

I've been on the attack speed train for a while now. Still lets you farm under turret and prevents dives.

SNSD SunnnyJan 3, 201719 votes

big reason why junglers are so powerful this season is that turret dives are riskless.

all they have to do is stack up 2 minion waves at your turret and have the jungler be level 6 and you be level 5, you're dead in a 2 v 1 dive. and if for some reason you get a 1 for 1 trade, you still lose all the minions so you lost the minions and assist advantage.

if you die 1 time, you can straight up be dove riskfree 2 v 1.

this leads to insane snowballing in a lane just from 1 mistake.

Spaceman5pffJan 3, 20175 votes

The procedure you listed has been the EXACT same thing for upwards of 4 seasons now. It isn't new. It is why Renekton + Elise used to be such a powerful combination for top + jg back in "the day" They would dive with just 2 people vs a full HP bruiser / fighter / tank.

Now people are complaining that 3-4 people are diving one full hp adc at 5 minutes. it is an EASIER TARGET, and you are bringing MORE people. Of course it is going to have a reasonable success rate.

This concept that dives are happening bot literally every game at 5 minutes is entirely false and propagated only by the ability to share via the internet + anonymity makes lying much easier. Yes they are a more common strategy due to the impact of first tower bonus, but they are not happening and working every single game.

h5LYF41LamJan 3, 20174 votes

riot has been promoting the "push to win" tactic for a while in the game,this is a moba freezing and denying the enemy cs should be more punishing to the losing lane.

h5LYF41LamJan 3, 20172 votes

yes but the game isnt as punishing to someone getting zoned in the botlane,taking in consideration the clown fiestas that happen in the lane later on a couple of minions in exp and gold isnt that much of a loss. A good player should be given the chance to punish a bad player and exceed in the lane,denying the enemy bot a wave or 2 arent that much of a punishment in the current league of legends.

Ok sure but whyJan 3, 201711 votes

i'd love that

if the towers were a big threat, games would last longer too, and all champs would have a better chance at getting fed

Genocide VictimJan 3, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=JZ Jora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pN1gsZPk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-03T00:27:37.302+0000)

i'd love that

if the towers were a big threat, games would last longer too, and all champs would have a better chance at getting fed

We don't need longer games rofl. If anything they are too long right now and need to be shorter.

Ok sure but whyJan 3, 20177 votes

oh right, let's turn it into Snowball of Duty

PB4UAMEJan 3, 201721 votes

The most balanced period in all of League (season 2 -> early season 3) and the second most balanced (cinderhulk) both had 30-45 minute average game length, with occasional hour long matches.

Game times need to increase, not fucking decrease; no idea what you're smoking.

A longer game and less snowballing makes for a much more fair battlefield, where you do not lose the game because your ADC is dumb and over extends once, dies, loses bot tower, and then your bot is chain dived whenever they come back into lane.

Additionally, when you have 45+ minute games, you can actually balance champions and items around different stages in the game. Right now, late-game is either at 20+ minute or never, mid game is virtually non-existent, and the early game is littered with ganks and dives that early on you have little control over on the receiving end. All the free gold and massive stat boosts RIOT has added, coupled with even making the fucking minions themselves snowball the second one team gets an EXP lead has made this once heavily strategic game into a snowball burst fest of whomever presses their buttons and/or ganks bot first wins.

Spicy RiceJan 3, 20174 votes

Can someone explain to me why people say the cinderhulk meta was balanced, when it was just 1 class dominating everything

NineTailedMysticJan 3, 201710 votes

Because outside of serious offenders (Sej, Grag for example), everyone was able to do their job, without everyone bursting everyone. Assassins could assassinate when played well, but weren't overbearing even with their old kits. Mages could use their AoE and make picks without demolishing everyone. Tanks could protect their allies without bursting down the enemy squishies (unless you were Sej/Grag), but still posed a threat. Juggernauts and the problems they created didn't exist yet. ADCs were impactful and fulfilled their niche of Tank busting and sieging without busting squishies as easily.

AMYS GRAVEJan 3, 20173 votes

This ^ When tanks are strong at tanking the game is balanceable.

Nami in BushJan 3, 20172 votes

was before all the cancer champions were released

was before all the cancerous reworks were released

was before the cancerous items were added to the game item 3053 item 3085 item 3107

was before items were reworked into cancer

was when you could actually have more than 1 ward out at a time

ChaoticPineconeJan 3, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=JZ Jora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pN1gsZPk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-03T00:27:37.302+0000)

i'd love that

if the towers were a big threat, games would last longer too, and all champs would have a better chance at getting fed

Which works out for you, but there must be some recognition given to those who play lane bullies/have a lane dominant style of play who DONT want all champs to have a better chance at getting fed.

AMYS GRAVEJan 3, 20172 votes

If you remember the cinderhulk meta lane bullies were strong despite games lasting until 30-35-40 minutes.

ChaoticPineconeJan 3, 20171 votes

Would you care to name one?

It was Amumu, Sejuani, Gragas, Warwick, Shyavana in the jungle (the early gankers like Lee Sin, Vi, or Jarvan all got pushed out). Assassins were unviable, and any non-hypercarry bot got outscaled quickly too. People built full tank on any AS based champ with cinderhulk and redsmite and could outdual any non-redsmite champ on the map.

Champs like Renekton and Pantheon were left in the dust.

AMYS GRAVEJan 3, 20173 votes

Lee Sin, Shyvana, Vi, Pantheon, and especially RekSai all pushed the tank junglers out of their own jungle early. The problem was that the tank junglers were super vulnerable to early invades but no one punished them for their bad early games. Those junglers were all actually quite good at countering them.

Assassins were perfectly viable, they just had to wait to mop up fights instead of diving into the fights first to try to 100-0 people like they were able to do in previous seasons. Leblanc, Fizz, and Zed come to mind as the assassins of choice at the time. Assassins couldn't 100-0 you but they could 80-0 you or just chunk you out so badly that you were forced to immediately back, giving their team the advantage in whatever fight ensued. Meanwhile there were mages and ADCs also viable mid which gave amazing diversity to mid.

People building one damage item into full tank has always been and still is a thing. That was not unique to the cinderhulk meta.

Red smite was out of line in preseason 5 with patch 4.20 being the big one. By 5.2 or so it was in line and cinderhulk didn't even come out until patch 5.5. Red smite being stupidly strong was part of the assassin/weedwick meta which came before the cinderhulk meta.

Panth jungle was actually quite strong in this period, (i psudo mained him at the time) but Renekton wasn't in the best spot i'd agree. Then again Renekton defined the top lane meta for years so ....

Asayake 5150glowJan 3, 20175 votes

Most mages have a stun, so tower diving them is already plenty risky, not to mention incredible burst.

ADC's on the other hand have a support to help them out. Although that may or may not be enough.

YFisfabulousBRUHJan 3, 20171 votes

think of more traditional supports like Soraka Janna Sona . they dont really have a stun pre 6

Asayake 5150glowJan 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

think of more traditional supports like . they dont really have a stun pre 6

Nami D:

YFisfabulousBRUHJan 5, 20171 votes

.>

Spaceman5pffJan 3, 20174 votes

Soraka has heals, a slow, a silence and a root at level 3.

Janna has a shield, an instant cast knockup, and a targeted slow at level 3.

Sona has her tits, that is about it.

KingnewgameplusJan 3, 20171 votes

Sona has her tits, that is about it.

That's all I need...

YFisfabulousBRUHJan 5, 20171 votes

if you're just gonna list their spells i can do that too

Taric has a shield a stun and a heal!

Spaceman5pffJan 8, 20171 votes

You are missing the point.

2 of those champions have powerful tools for denying dives pre-6.

YFisfabulousBRUHJan 8, 20171 votes

i've been dived as soraka/sona sup before pre-6 (i dont play a lot of janna) and i just sit there and watch after i blow all my spells trying to keep my adc alive and they die anyways due to the Vi tower dive.

Spaceman5pffJan 8, 20171 votes

Yeah sona gets ruined by well played ganks, but that is part of playing her.

Soraka should never be easy to dive unless you just flat out misplace your E. Basically, vs Vi, you place it such that she either walks away without landing any more hits than her Q OOOORRRRR she tries to get more hits in + gets rooted in tower range + Free soraka Q into regen buffed heal on your AD.

Vi is actually quite easy to counter as soraka, especially if she ults someone since you know exactly where she will end up so you just silence there. When she can't E or Q it gets very hard for her to proc her passive efficiently and she loses a good amount of damage.

ÇhåryzårdJan 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Most mages have a stun, so tower diving them is already plenty risky, not to mention incredible burst.

ADC's on the other hand have a support to help them out. Although that may or may not be enough.

If the enemy has minions and its a 3v2, no, it most definitely is not enough

SchmidttyGamesJan 3, 20174 votes

This is actually the reason I've become so comfortable with Zyra as a Support Main. She makes any dive a risk and even moreso post-6 when she can simply erase you for being to aggressive. I'm finding it hard to play anyone else right now because they can't defend the bottom lane like she can.

1wolfpackJan 3, 20173 votes

people used to complain that the games were lasting too long, now its more of the opposite I hear. but what happens when ur stuck in a 40min game playing 4v5. people complain about that all the time as well. their is no way to make everyone happy.

personally I like the slightly shorter games we have now vs the longer games we used to have a few seasons back.

KarfussJan 3, 20173 votes

Agreed. Absolutely disgusting how USELESS towers are. They're destroyed too quickly, they do very little damage AND above all the targeting AI is archaic.

A jungle tanking the turret while another laner dives with little risk is absurd. Zero priority targeting. No excuse for that.

Spaceman5pffJan 3, 20172 votes

Other than to allow for coordinated dives to work..

420 gramsJan 3, 20173 votes

Singed can take 12, yes twelve, TWELVE tower shots and only lose 1/3 of his life with 3 items. Think about that. Taking 12 tower shots safely.

Kitty ClarissaJan 3, 20171 votes

Then he BMs you as he kills you or runs away

DanjengJan 3, 20174 votes

A true Singed will stay to take thirty tower shots as he spams laugh and mastery over your dead champion's corpse.

Shifue DravenJan 3, 20172 votes

Agreed the towers need to be buffed.

GiantEnemyShacoJan 3, 20172 votes

Yeah... unless you're really squishy, towers really don't do anything and even if you are squishy, if you're sufficiently fed, you can still 1v1 under tower pretty easily if you have sums.

If you're a jungler who at least has cloth armor, you can pretty much just shit on whomever you like and there's nothing they can really do about it. Rammus is AIDS right now because he can 1v2 under tower and still walk out with more than half of his health.

I think if towers actually did true damage, it would be a different story. Right now, an ADC with a single armor item is enough to tank a tower dive for a few shots. They just don't do any damage.

CarameI FrappeJan 3, 20172 votes

I remember a few days ago I played Leona and my ADC was Vayne . We were perfectly fine, the tower was at full HP and we farmed cautiously with a ward in the tri bush. We were somewhat in the middle but close enough to be safe ... suddenly a level 6 Nautilus flashes over the wall, ults my ADC, and both Ezreal Thresh proceed to beat on her. We rushed to our tower, I ulted their Jungler under tower and stood in front of Vayne. Guess what? Despite Naut was almost dead, he ended up getting us killed, Ez got 2 kills, and before we could get back to lane .... they destroyed our tower close to eight minutes in. We were cautious but the moment we got dove, we immediately lost bot lane and Ez snowballed from there because bot could roam now.