Champions that need serious rework

Lugg··4 votes·679 views

I just wanted to put down a list of champs that are really broken right now (either OP, UP, or just plain cancer to play against). This is my opinion, but I have played about 4 years now and understand the game pretty well at this point. I now there will be disagreements, just please explain why you disagree.

Kalista I'm pretty sure even the mains will agree that she needs a Sion/Poppy level rework at this point. As she is right now, Riot has to keep her on the weak side. Otherwise she is perma-ban. On release I knew this was coming for sure.

Ekko Kit is beyond broken. Easily the safest champ in the game. You could literally half his damage output and he would still be playable. He can never be anywhere close to balanced in his current state. Another champ that was obvious from release that would need major changes.

Yasuo Yet another stupidly overloaded kit. Has been, and always will be pure cancer until reworked.

Nidalee Another no-brainer. She is either super OP or not viable at all.

MasterYi and Rengar Completely binary champs. Either they win the game solo or are completely worthless. In Yi's case he will be worthless until he gets his items, then it's GG. When ahead Rengar literally has zero counterplay when he ults since you don't have time to react properly when the ! pops up.

Zed and Leblanc Champs that do WAY too much burst for how safe they are. I will honestly laugh at anyone who would disagree with this.

Chogath Is an interesting one. None of his abilities are really bad, it's just that they put them all on the same champ.

Darius Either the heal or the ult resets need to go.

Fiora Duelist with the best heal in the game. Enough said.

Fizz Easiest one to fix on this list. Increase the "troll pole" CD by 3 seconds every rank. It's one of the strongest abilities in the entire game (including ults) and he can use it THREE TIMES in a teamfight.

Gangplank Name a single weakness in his entire kit.

Yorick Still wondering if he will ever actually be reworked.

Skarner The rework on him should just be reverted. He was fine before, he just needed number tweaks.

Shaco Everyone but the mains will agree on this one.

Mordekaiser Pretty sure everyone agrees with this one.

Riven Do away with the stupid animation canceling and actually rework/balance her.

Most of the other problems in the game can be fixed with straight buffs or nerfs. Riot, you need to get busy.

UPDATE: As to be expected, over 90% of the replies so far are trolls, people who can't explain why i'm wrong, or people who don't want to lose their freelo.

33 Comments

TheOvermind5 votes

According to you half the game's champions need to be reworked

Lugg1 votes

I listed maybe 12% of them. Hardly 50%.

chipndip14 votes

Gameplay and Bad

Mr Vulcanator1 votes

What?

TheSequelsRBad3 votes

lol no

Lugg1 votes

Anyone can just say no. Why don't you try explaining why you disagree.

RcGjWO640w2 votes

Azir cough

RcGjWO640w2 votes

Most of the champions on this list have a stronger early game or a lot of outplay potential, meaning they're much easier to start snowballing than other picks. Once they start snowballing, it's harder to shut them down just because of how fast it picks up speed. These champions do not need reworks (except for maybe Yorick. I'd like to see more of a necromancer thing going on with him. And maybe Karthus, just because he's completely irrelevant in the current meta.)

These champions are only super strong if you feed them, but super weak if you don't. Literally all you have to do is just understand that they can kill you at early levels and snowball. Don't play so aggressively against them and warn your teammates to do the same. Either way, for every game these champions become unstoppable, there are two where they're completely shut out and worthless the whole game.

Lugg2 votes

While I don't disagree, don't you think that the ones who snowball have kits that make it pretty easy for them to snowball?

Also, just because the can be worthless if behind, doesn't excuse the fact that you can end up with a bad teammate that feeds and then you lose the game no matter how well you play your lane. That's why I hate the binary champs, they are unhealthy pretty much any way you look at them.

JosephAngelo1 votes

YES!

JosephAngelo2 votes

There are a lot of really good points here. I agree with most points stated here.

I do strongly disagree with your opinions on ekko though. I think his kit is very interactive for both the ekko player and their opponent and I LOVE how visual his kit is; meaning is animations and spells are all very unique and obvious and they give time for his opponents and teammates to understand and react to what he is doing which I believe is incredibly healthy on every champion and is lacking in many other champions on this list (LB, Rengar, Mord, Yorick).

I think he might be alittle strong. I would actually like to see his passive do less damage and give a lot less movement speed. Perhaps do so by removing the percent max health damage entirely. I would also like to see his cooldowns go up alittle. Other than that I think he is a work of art.

I agree with everything else. Especially; yasuo being inexplicably overloaded, darius heal being obnoxious, LB being too safe compared to her reliable impressive burst and fiora heal just seeming really out of place compared to the rest of her kit. AOE heal on an assassin/fighter duelist? Soooo before she was a fencer she was a combat medic back in Nam? I don't get it....

Lugg1 votes

I completely agree that Ekko's visuals, story, lore, and animations are awesome. It's just that champions with overloaded kits are always a nightmare to balance.

The biggest problem with the game are champs that do ridiculous damage while being very safe. For example, champs like Ekko and LB should do much lower damage. They should be "hit and run" type champions that wear you down and then finish you off.

JosephAngelo1 votes

That sounds good to me. Every part of champions kit should be considered when designing balancing a champion and I think a big part of that is that if a champion has certain strengths then they should have weaknesses somewhere.

For example, LB has massive area of influence and many ways she can escape so in exchange for that she shouldn't do as much damage as say a rengar who needs to get into a fight and then find his way out. And additionally, Rengar has a lot of damage and stealth. Maybe in exchange for that stealth, which can be a way to get close to his target, he should be kind of slow or squishy to make him need to predict where his enemies WILL be and be waiting in a bush for them to walk up to him. etc.

I think we are in agreement I just wanted to clearly explain it.

cinomenapplebae2 votes

Riven As a Riven player I totally agree, the animation cancels are way to hard to learn and way too much of a burden to actually learn and she depends way to much on them, maybe im just bad at her but idk

550qwe1 votes

i can say that gp has 1000 weakness point like 0 mobility, squishy, barrel are not a 100% dmg since enemy can destroy it.

Lugg1 votes

GP had good mobility due to his MS buff off his barrels, his oranges remove any CC, and he can slow down the enemies with his ult as well. So that's not really much of a weakness.

His defensive stats are above average for champs in the game and you always build some defensive items on him, so that isn't a weakness.

Barrels can be destroyed by enemies, but a good GP rarely lets that happen. A good example is dropping the first barrel next to you and the second in range of the enemy. They can take out the first, but you just shoot the second and they are chunked anyway.

Like I said, no real significant weakness in his kit.

550qwe1 votes

nah i talk for experience and i know gp

Malignant Vemira1 votes

You forgot Anivia, a champ with a revive, and that much easy as hell burst to land, shouldn't have that much burst, or the second life. Can't have both.

Lugg1 votes

While that may be true, she really doesn't need a rework per say. Just some number tweaks.

Endogenic1 votes

one of the most incorrect threads I've read in Gold & Below in a while

Lugg1 votes

Care to elaborate?

aqours fanboy1 votes

It's funny how Ekko's passive did alot more damage before nerfs.

Must've ran into tank Ekko in a ranked game.

TheLazySunbro1 votes

I dont even play or main 3/4 of the champs you mentioned here and I disagree

Fizz doe...delete that guy

LU Vanilla Rice 1 votes

No offence, but this might be one of the saddest threads I have ever read.

Lugg1 votes

I don't mind you thinking it's sad, but WHY is it sad?

LU Vanilla Rice 1 votes

**Some champions I agree with: Yorick, Skarner, Mordekaiser. Other champs might need a bit of tweaking, but overall, every champ you said is "op" is not... I would go in detail about each one, but that would take an eternity. As well, because I don't main them, I am not objectively able to defend them. I can, however, defend Lb, Fizz, and Zed (Zed in particular) SO I guess I will. **

There's a lot of counterplay potential against Zed. As well, because I am lazy I am just gonna copy and paste something I wrote in another post. I apologize if some stuff doesn't make sense as to why I said it, it most likely was a response to what someone else previously said or commented on in the other thread. All the stuff in bold should be everything not copy and pasted.

Zed absolutely has counter-play potential! In lane, he has to be able to land his full combo (pre 6) in order to win the trade. Dodging the combo (namely, the q) is essential, and quite easy to do. As well, Zed has good waveclear at the expense of his escape. His q and e is not enough to waveclear well, and he must use his w, and that alone should not clear a wave instantly without the Zed being fed. As well, I do believe you undervalue the importance of CC, specifically with Zed. CC'ing Zed is not only to allow your team to kill him, but also to negate most of his damage. If a Zed ults your enemy adc, and he is cc'd for 2 seconds (which is a reasonable amount of time) and unable to pull his combo off, Zed does significantly less damage. As well, your comment about him being banned all the time is not entirely true. In higher elos he is not banned because everyone there does know how to properly counter Zed.

Also, to address your first post:

  • Zed's long range poke is very unreliable and predictable with a high cd.

  • 1 slow that is conditional, not very long, and weak isn't really effective cc...

  • Again, Zed's waveclear has a long cd and requires the use of his w, and that means he can - easily be out-traded after he uses it.

  • He does have some sustained damage, but not nearly enough to say his strength is sustained damage.

  • Yes, he does have burst damage, like all assassins. But the strength of his burst is conditional.

  • He is technically untargetable, not invulnerable. He does dodge skillshots and point and clicks, but he will take damage over time and such.

  • Zed does have escapes, but his escapes are very visible and very obvious.

  • Zed needs a gapcloser. All assassins do otherwise they can't get to the target.

  • The execute is part of his kit. It gives him the damage necessary to kill the enemy.

  • The e is aoe, but it's not strong by any means.

  • Yes, he does have percent damage, and again, it's part of his kit.

  • Duskblade is extremely good on Zed, and while some intention of the item was made for him, this doesn't mean it isn't equally as good on other champions, such as Talon and Rengar. And again, if we're saying the item is made for him, then saying Zhonyas is meant to counter him is a fair statement as well.

  • His high ratios allow him to do something towards late game, because if he didn't have high ratios, he wouldn't do much damage.

  • While qss no longer prevents the Zed ult, Guardian's Angel is an amazing choice against Zed as an adc. As well, any support with large cc still negates most, if not all of Zed's damage output.

  • All this being said, I am not saying Zed is weak by any means, oh no. I am saying he is not nearly as strong as others think him to be. He is a balanced champion with available counterplay at hand, with the potential to do very well with proper play. By the way, if it helps, I am a Zed main, so I do have at least some idea of his state. ;) Hope this helps with knowing how to counter him, or at least explaining his abilities and state in the game.

And I am going to copy and past another post I wrote:

The nerfs you're suggesting aren't actually that bad, but Zed isn't strong by any means. If his kit were truly overloaded, he'd be a contested pick in pro play, which he is not at all. Right now, the strongest mid laners overall are burst/control mages, such as Vladimir, Ryze, Swain, Azir, Viktor etc.

I am not undermining Zed's damage at all, nor am I undermining his maneuverability and access to power. But his unique kit gives him the potential to burst many champions, as well as potentially be punished if not done right. Despite what many will say, he does have a high-risk/high-reward play.

Zed can dominate the game and his lane if not played against properly, and I feel like you, and many others, are still unaware of his weakness, particularly in his laning phase with his w e q combo. I want to address this the most:

Zed's w e q combo is his bread and butter for trading in laning phase. It has the potential to do a significant amount of damage, or it can do almost nothing. The key to beating it is dodging the q's, which are not as hard as you think. You should never be able to dodge the w e portion, otherwise the Zed is god-awful. But Zed's q is actually generally very predictable. I find the best way to maximize the dodge is: once the w e hits, move back and to one side, then quickly shift over to the other side. It sounds simple, but works on most Zeds. You move back to try and make it harder for the q Zed himself is throwing to hit you. You move to one side originally to make it look like you are going there, then shift to dodge the q's. It doesn't work 100% of the time, obviously, but it's a pretty good shot. Finally, all of this is assuming you have no engage and are a long range mage, in which after you dodge most of the damage, you trade back.

If you are an assassin who can engage, however, you use a different approach:

Once Zed uses his shadow, his e will most likely be instant, quickly followed by q. This is a mistake a lot of Zeds make when facing other assassins, but one that can be easily punished. Each assassin has their own unique way of outplaying it, but the general way to do so is to engage the moment you see his shadow, as most Zeds unleash their full combo instantly and don't expect to be engaged upon. Even, let's say, you can't dodge both q's and his e, you will (generally, if you engage) only take damage from one e, the q Zed himself shoots out (in which the damage is mitigated by hitting at least one minion) and an aa + passive and thunderlords. This may sound like a lot, but it's not, because once the other Assassin engages, Zed's combo is down and the damage coming from it was reduced significantly.

Again, I am not saying Zed is weak, but he is a very balanced champion who has a unique kit that is not overloaded or overpowered in any sense. With the right counterplay, he can be rendered useless.

Basically, Zed's not op. He has counter play available, most people just don't know how to use it. Don't think there is none, because if there weren't, he would be a priority pick in pro play, and he isn't. Why? Because everyone there knows his weaknesses. He's not unbalanced, he's not strong, nor is he weak as a champion. I am sure someone is going to comment on this, so if you could, please just make it objective.

Lugg1 votes

First off, Zed doesn't need to land his full combo to trade effectively at all. That's just plain laughable to anyone who's laned against him. He has infinite sustain since he doesn't have mana and can poke you down with just his Q spam. If you go in on him for a trade, he also gets you with the W and E. If you focus on dodging his abilities, you can't do any damage to him, so he comes out ahead since you've used resources he doesn't have to worry about. It's a lose/lose situation laning against him most times. You either back and lose CS or risk an all-in that (if you die) automatically wins lane for Zed, since you can't fight him at all when he's ahead. Also, he will use his AA to farm if he knows what he is doing and use his abilities to harass you. So he can always escape or all in when he wants too. This is why he is such a toxic champ to lane against.

CC'ing Zed to kill him only works if his ult is down. Otherwise, it literally doesn't matter what you do, he will get away alive while still doing some damage to you. To effectively stop a good Zed, it will take more than one player. That's the reason he isn't as popular at the highest ELOs, they have the coordination to deal with him. That really doesn't happen at the vast majority of skill levels.

Add into all of this the fact that his kit has INSANE amounts of outplay built in. While ulting, he can swap with 3 different shadows, so good luck actually CC'ing him or even doing any damage back at all. Plus AD itemization for his is beyond broken. It is light years ahead of AP items. Even the tanks need 200 plus armor right now to avoid being 100-0 by him. I'm sure someone will bring up Zhyonas, which does save you and makes him back off, but Zed's ult will be up twice before your Zhyonas will be back up.

The simple fact of the matter is that Zed is toxic and unhealthy. He needs reworked in some form.

LU Vanilla Rice 1 votes

The way you described his laning was so wrong. Literally everything you said was so wrong. He does need to land his combo to trade effectively in lane to do good damage. It's very easy to dodge while trading back, because you don't run away from him, you go towards/to the side. You should still be able to trade at any point, and he can't waveclear well, even using his w, without being fed.

As to his ult, you can tell when he is going to ult, similar to Leblanc distortion. It's predictable.

As for pro play, that's just not true. One person can easily stop a Zed, as long as they win laning or outplay him.

And trust me, he's not toxic as long as you do know how to play against him. He doesn't need a rework or tweaks, he is good as he is.

Lugg1 votes

What you describe only happens at the very high ELO ranks. Nothing like that happens below Master tier.

LU Vanilla Rice 1 votes

I am Diamond and that happens by the way, so definitely below Master Tier it happens. I would probably say people don't truly know how to counter Zed properly until high gold/low plat, but that's an estimate based off of my league journey.

But it is true, in low elos it doesn't happen. And that doesn't make it op, it just means people need to learn how to counter him. And if you learn, then it'll help you in the long run too! :D

Lugg1 votes

Their are indeed players at Plat and Diamond who can do it, but it's so rare. The only thing you really know for sure to outplay Zed is that he appears behind you when he ults. That allows you some counterplay, but that's about it for good Zed's.

LU Vanilla Rice 1 votes

You underestimate a lot how much people know how to. In diamond absolutely most if not everyone knows how to do it, and in mid-high plat people know as well. Low plat, you'll have some who don't, but generally people know how to do it. And there are many other ways to counter Zed, by the way ;)

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