Lee Sin needs a major nerf

Lugg··199 votes·9,747 views

I'm sure Lee Sin mains will down vote this, but it needs to be said, Lee is at the point of being stupidly OP now.

He is the most mobile champ in the game and doesn't pay for that HUGE advantage anywhere in his kit. He does very good damage, if he just builds one damage item. He is extremely tanky, even without items, add in his ridiculously easy escapes and he is realistically one of the hardest champs in the game to kill. His jungle clears are fast and safe. His ganks are very good as well. Lee literally has no weakness at all in his gameplay currently.

I'm sure people will immediately jump on the "he falls off late" bandwagon. The thing is, he really doesn't. By late they mean post 50 minutes, and even then he is still quite good from his utility alone.

UPDATE: Still hearing only crickets from Riot when it comes to actual balance on Lee.

Then there is the "he's very hard to play at that level" crowd. Yes, he is one of the hardest champs to master mechanically. However, he is so OP at this point that you don't even have to be good with him to carry at 90% of the ELOs. Just watch a Bronze player with 10 or more games on him and that argument goes straight out the window.

Finally you will hear the "he just got nerfed not too long ago". They lowered the damage on his ult. This pretty much had zero effect on his gameplay. Not a single person plays Lee for his ult damage. It was once again a joke nerf from Riot that does nothing to effect the actual health of the champion. (Another great example would be the last "nerf" to Ahri).

So Riot, grow a set of balls and actually nerf Lee Sin. He is at a point where you could literally lower his damage 50% across all of his abilities and he would still be a viable champ.

245 Comments

BastionKross80 votes

Lee Sin's greatest weakness is that he can only be picked once per team.

Else we'd see pro teams with 2-3 Lees per side. He's just that well rounded.

Sp33d Zer09 votes

Then why don't we see Lee in every LCS game right now?

LegendmakerGX4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=elTuz6a8,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-02-20T21:08:43.961+0000)

Then why don't we see Lee in every LCS game right now?

Well there is a clear reason why. Lee combo and to even gank or sneek to kill the ADC is base on Q or ult if he flash......item 3814 Sort of ruin it for him since ADC will always activate it before a fight and usually a lee sin would not be dumb to wait until the shield is over while his team is in a fight and need him to do something..... item 3814 can be used for top/jungler too to give you a heads up.

Sp33d Zer04 votes

Except that if you deal damage at any point of putting the shield up, it cancels it going up.

LegendmakerGX4 votes

what if it is already up and your team is in a team fight and need your help??? Usually when they have item 3814 the must have wards around and obviously they would know if a lee sin is missing....

Every ADC always activate their shield when a team fight start no matter what to be on the safe side.

junglerboy163 votes

This^

The duration is long enough that you can just turn it on and forget it, it's 100% just a better version of banshee's veil.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER52 votes

They pretty much had a Rioter admit awhile back that they buff him for LCS, they will always be bias towards Lee Sin and try to give him the smallest nerf that won't effect him that much, but also give him the most ridiculous buffs the minute he falls out of meta.

Lee sadly won't be nerf anytime soon because Riot will forever do what they want to see this fuckboy in LCS and don't give a single fuck if he's broken for solo queue.

Don't get me wrong I completely agree with you but it's simply not going to happen or at least any time soon that is.

EROTIC RAID BOSS6 votes

he was out of the meta for like a year lol

BALDG1VEN BOOMER14 votes

So?

LeBlanc was considered out of meta for a large portion of season 5 and 6, does that mean she was fine? "The meta" is honestly such a poor excuse for anyone who thinks certain champions aren't strong because they aren't top tier.

Elikain4 votes

...bias towards Lee Sin and try to give him the smallest nerf that won't effect him that much, but also give him the most ridiculous buffs the minute he falls out of meta.

If you agree that meta doesn't exist in such a constricting form (only a few top tier picks and nothing else is playable), then you're right. Meta is a much broader term however, the best champions do get to be in the spotlight more often. Ahri isn't in the meta right now but try her on mid and Lee will never be able to shit on you again.

People have options to playing against Lee but the thing is, finding out the solution is hard. It's much easier to point a finger and shout OP enough times for Riot to roll their eyes and begrudgingly look into the "issue" themselves.

Lugg5 votes

The thing is, even when he isn't meta, he is still completely viable and can carry games. His win rate during that time was basically the same as always.

EROTIC RAID BOSS3 votes

viable is not the same as 'in need of massive nerfs'. he is viable right now. at most he only needs a minor nerf though. he just got nerfed directly and indirectly like 3 patches in a row lol

Sexy Jack Rabbit34 votes

To be honest I'd just be happy to see Ward hopping removed from the game entirely. It's not really a healthy mechanic anymore. It was removed from Kat because "Her new added mobility doesn't make it necessary" whereas Lee Sin is allowed to dash around the battle around with a point and click?

Not too mention Jax abuses it an excessive amount the MOMENT he begins to see play.

SpecterVonBaren13 votes

At least Jax is giving up part of his damage rotation when he uses his Q to ward hop, and his only utility is his E.

Dracocrash1 votes

but when you W as lee sin, dont you give up a sheild?

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

Don't need a shield when the enemy is gonna get burst down before they can do anything.

Blåbæret26 votes

Lee builds 2 dmg items rest tank and becomes the best assassin in the game.

GULAG 4 U10 votes

Lmao you think lee sin kills shit faster than khazix or rengar?

Melledoneus21 votes

I don't think. I KNOW.

GULAG 4 U3 votes

I with 2 damage items and 2 defensive one he doesn't kill faster than any other one with the same gold lead.

Melledoneus6 votes

Kha and rengar have mechanics they need to utilize to access their burst.

Lee presses R, Q, then if you're not dead by then he just smashes your face in. Hell, most of the time he doesn't need R.

GULAG 4 U2 votes

Well khazix unloads a Tiamat-smite-Q-W- auto mid air and rengar.... well we all know what he does.

most of those mechanics aren't hard at all to perform really. And it's seriously debatable how a 4 items 2 damage lee and 2 def one can outdamage a 4 item knifecat or alien on steroids really.

Melledoneus5 votes

{quoted}

Well khazix unloads a Tiamat-smite-Q-W- auto mid air and rengar.... well we all know what he does. You're forgetting about isolation and bonetooth necklace. most of those mechanics aren't hard at all to perform really. And it's seriously debatable how a 4 items 2 damage lee and 2 def one can outdamage a 4 item knifecat or alien on steroids really.

Lee sin has some of the highest damaging abilities in the game. Both in base and scaling. Look it up.

GULAG 4 U2 votes

I do know that. Khazix'S Q sits at 200 something g at the moment. And rengar just casually rolls 400 ad at 15 minutes.

(Off topic) Khazix used to have the 2nd highest ad scaling before, being 2.56 . Only mordekaiser's 3.9 before nerfs surpassed it.

Melledoneus4 votes

Rengar's passive gates his power heavily. If he doesn't get unique kills he doesn't get damage. Most of his burst is also front loaded into his ult combo.

Kha hits mega hard when you're isolated, but if you're not he's noticeably less bursty. Unless he's obscenely fed, it'll take him 2-3 rotations to kill you if you're not isolated.

Darth Sidiouss22 votes

i just want them to nerf his stupid mobility he gets away with the bullshit.

Troy24262113 votes

Lee Sin's Q has 340 base damage before calculating the 8% missing health.

Not to mention his 90%+90%+100%+200% AD scaling, ensuring he has damage even with minimal damage built. His E still has a respectable 200 base damage, and it's magic damage.

Euthenaasia5 votes

I didn't even realize that he has a %dmg mechanic on his Q. Wow.

Yaśuo Main5 votes

yeah but thats all max rank

you also dont count armor in at all

PB4UAME4 votes

Name me a similar execute with 340 base damage and 1.8 scaling.

Yaśuo Main1 votes

execute? oh please, lee sins ult is more of an execute

and i can name something even stronger than lee's Q, like darius Q

Awoof4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yaśuo Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=elTuz6a8,comment-id=000f000100000000,timestamp=2017-02-21T01:20:47.464+0000)

execute? oh please, lee sins ult is more of an execute

It does increased damage based on missing health, that is by definition/usual usage of the term an execute.

Euthenaasia11 votes

If the completely unjust and non-linear rule of Lee being able to ward jump while Katarina and Braum cannot was removed I would be fine. Lee, as a Jungler can dash into lane even if he misses his skillshot, or if he even uses it to begin with. Along with a reposition that has a nuke on top of it for his ultimate, with the built in lifesteal there is literally no excuse as to why he should be this way. The fact that it's been this way for as long as it has been just reinforces that Riot is more concerned with the 1% than the general playerbase. At the end of the day the true toxicity in this game is how much money is at stake when it comes to professional play.

Nursing9 votes

If they're gonna pull the "mechanic" card regarding his nerfs, then what about Nidalee ? She's of the same mechanical level yet they butchered her patch after patch.

Armored Yokai9 votes

Alot of Lee sin mains will try to justify his difficulty when in reality all you have to do is Q/E/R around the map and spam W+Ward jump to disengage or engage landing his Q isn't difficult at all and you must be incredibly slow or have low intellect to think lee sin is hard..

Demens Astrum3 votes

Invoker is hard, Lee Sin is not rly.

Summonerrr 19 votes

LCS Favoritsm makes me sick.

Earl Eulrich8 votes

take out the wardstep and all problems are (mostly) solved...

GGLineaR7 votes

I'm not sure about that 50% damage nerf, but I do agree that a good lee sin is cancerous. Even a bad lee sin is annoying to deal with.

I suggest that his energy be replaced with a mana bar, and make Flurry replenish his mana by 50 on the first attack, and 25 on the second. If managed properly, a mana bar can balance anyone.

Lugg5 votes

It's the same problem with any resource-less champ.

GGLineaR9 votes

I agree, however people like Rumble and Vlad are in a different boat, given their lack of mobility.


Rumble has no mobility other than a (very) slight speed buff for half a second, and he pops like a balloon.

Vlad's mobility is only when he has stacks of bloodthirst, (and it barely buffs his speed) and his W, which is on a stupidly high cooldown. Not to mention how worthless he is early, and how disgusting he is in late.


The problem isn't the lack of mana, the problem is with energy champs that have tons of mobility with no cost. Characters like Yasuo, Lee, Riven, and Zed have more mobility than anyone else in the game, but it comes at no real cost.

There's nothing inherently wrong with energy, but mobility cannot and should not be free.

Lugg3 votes

Well said.

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

Rumble Is perfectly fine.

Requiemsfire5 votes

Graves Hecarim Khazix Zac Ivern

Wyrmblade28 votes

Wow that's a lot of random champions whose only relation to leesin is that they're also junglers. Good job posting this! I'm proud of you.

PePsiLemoNN5 votes

He is the most mobile champ in the game

Leblanc Riven Yasuo Ahri Fiora k

Armored Yokai16 votes

{quoted}

Leblanc Riven Yasuo Ahri Fiora k

these champs have limited mobility while lee sin has too much of it

YumScrumptious9620 votes

Riven's isn't limited, Lee's is more limited than hers given that he has to hit an enemy to Q dash, and have an ally or a ward to W.

Armored Yokai12 votes

{quoted}

Riven's isn't limited, Lee's is more limited than hers given that he has to hit an enemy to Q dash, and have an ally or a ward to W.

Riven's Q can only go through certain areas and because of that she doesn't have as much mobility, however lee sin can dash through ANYTHING on allies,wards,minions and Lee sin has a long Q range that can be targeted on enemy targets and because the speed of his q is so fast he will get away safely if he presses it again after it lands

Faceroll Tactics9 votes

Lee sin doesn't waste damage gap closing. Riven does if she blows 1-2 qs (a significant portion of her burst and removing her opportunity to fast combo) just going up to her target

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