Something Nearly All Hated Champions Have (STOP Making These Kits)

Troy242621··75 votes·6,149 views

If one takes a look at the list of frequently hated champions, we'll see that they're almost all obscenely safe. There are exceptions, but nearly every single champion that is hated has this aspect.

I have to question why more and more champions, then, are getting disgustingly safe kits.

144 Comments

Troy24262152 votes

As a jungler, I especially love this. Leblanc mid, Kalista Thresh bot basically means "Hey jungler. You don't get to gank 2 out of 3 lanes, and the only one left basically means if you gank it and the enemy jungler is competent, you lose dragon."

I LOVE being forced to pick junglers that can farm exceptionally well.

(Before it's said, yes, I realize they can still be ganked. Unless they make a mistake, however, it's rarely worth the time because it costs me gold to even try to gank.)

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb4 votes

you know you posted in your own thread, yeah?

BetaDude4044 votes

You realize one is allowed to do that, yeah?

Troy24262123 votes

Uh yeah, I did. It would've been too big if part of the main post, and it didn't relate to everyone, but it was still relevant to my main point, so I made it a separate comment.

Is not commenting in your own thread some unspoken rule of etiquette that I'm unaware of?

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb3 votes

No offense meant, it just kinda looked like you were responding to it like you didn't notice that you'd posted the thread.

LordGeovanni1 votes

no offense ment but that is stupid like you have never said something and then came back to add a point to it.

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb1 votes

edit exists?

LordGeovanni1 votes

cause you notice all your mistakes ever

Spacesuit Spiff10 votes

Just saw the kali thresh lane. Went to gank and our ali flashQW the kali into us. She immediately got lanterned back, I can't imagine what the ali was expecting.

Taredom2 votes

{quoted}

As a jungler, I especially love this. Leblanc mid, Kalista Thresh bot basically means "Hey jungler. You don't get to gank 2 out of 3 lanes, and the only one left basically means if you gank it and the enemy jungler is competent, you lose dragon."

I LOVE being forced to pick junglers that can farm exceptionally well.

(Before it's said, yes, I realize they can still be ganked. Unless they make a mistake, however, it's rarely worth the time because it costs me gold to even try to gank.)

I main jungle as well, seems like safe lanes are a major trend right now, which is making playing some of my favorite junglers really rough.

Fraggleroc19 votes

Esp. those with Safe early Laning phase, Mid game Mobility, followed by great Mid-lategame Snowball potential.

Slamurai Jack14 votes

Not sure I agree. Yasuo has been one of the most hated champs since release and "safe" is the last word I would use to describe him.

Troy24262129 votes

You'll know why if you look at his nerf history. He was designed to be the safest melee ADC, but his defensive skills were gutted like a trout.

Silents4292 votes

Is he really safe though? He can't do much without minions to hop to, and found him easier to take down then most other champions.

FluxBound2 votes

He isnt safe, he's a very high risk champ. If the team just focuses you when you're not fed, you're dead and useless

Ziovi5 votes

i think it's also the fact that hated champions have actually at least 1 of these 2 characteristic: 1- they are safe 2- if they get a bit ahead they will stomp you and your team so hard that it will become frustrating

stochastic422 votes

I have to agree. The OP criteria doesn't cover Riven, Kat, Yas, etc.

YossarianSensei7 votes

I guess Annie Jinx and Ashe generate their own safeness by deleting everything that steps close to them, but yeah I see your point

lDontLiftIcarry8 votes

death is best safety. Please kill your enemy today. Save yourself!

SlytherinUmbreon17 votes

This message is endorsed by Karthus

I WILL TROLL YOU5 votes

Ashe was long over due for an overhaul. Previously she had no reliable escape and relatively low damages compared to other ADCs. Now she hits like a truck and her passive stops escape champs. Thank you riot for doing something right .... finally.

doubleguac3 votes

I think she's a little too good at the moment. She always actually had a pretty healthy winrate. She did less damage than other ADCs, but had a lot of utility to make up for it. Her passive was super boring/bad, and deserved a rework, but I don't really think she needed a huge injection of power to make her balanced.

They buffed her utility (free slow, global hawkshot) and gave her a massive steroid... so she's better at the stuff she was already good at, and doesn't have her old big weakness. She doesn't really seem to make any big trade-offs in exchange for her insane ult, other than a lack of dashes. But her high natural range, passive, and ult can make it difficult for bruisers to dive her anyways.

FluxBound2 votes

Yeah currently she's too op. Pretty much a new champion and everyone knows what happens with new things

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb1 votes

She actually has a pretty big downtime on her high damage output. Ashe has clear strengths and weaknesses now. She has massive strength tied to her Q, and her volley helps her get the stacks. She also has initiation potential. The downtime on her Q and her lack of mobility give her a weak state that can be exploited.

In other words, if she is overpowered, it's likely solvable by tuning, and not another rework.

doubleguac4 votes

Totally agree with this. I think she's a much more interesting champ now, just maybe a little overtuned. I'm sure any problems she has (if she does in fact have balance problems) could be solved with number tweaks.

Nameless Voice6 votes

The specific form of safety that a lot of the most-hated champions have is multiple forms of mobility or escape, which allows them to still escape after committing, effectively making them low-risk, high-reward. They generally also have high burst damage, so even when they only make a short in-and-out attack, they still end up taking a large amount of your health bar, often before you can really retaliate.

Well-designed champions with mobility have one single mobility spell, which they can use either to initiate an attack, or to escape. Such champions are almost never hated (unless they are numerically OP), because they have actual risk built into their kits. For example, Jax jumps onto you, but realises that he will lose the fight (maybe your jungler is just entering the lane) - but once Jax has jumped in, he's committed, he can't just jump back out again (at least for 6 seconds.) Using his mobility offensively gives him a moment of weakness that his enemies can exploit.

For a counter-example: Lee Sin jumps onto you to duel you, but realises that he will lose the fight. He can just drop a ward and Safeguard away, or kick you away from him to abort the fight. It's much harder to make a Lee Sin pay for his mistakes, because he has so many ways to undo them, and this in turn makes playing against him feel unfair and frustrating.

Ekko Jump in, ult out Fizz Dash in, pole out Leblanc Dash in, return out LeeSin Jump in, Safeguard out (or kick away) Nidalee Jump in, short CD to jump out (to be fair, she is hated more for being completely uncatchable than because of this) Riven Jump in, jump or shield-dash out Yasuo Dash in, dash out through minions (or block counterattack with his wall) Zed Swap in, swap out (a small delay before he can do this now.)

Having two dashes on the same champion can still work, though. Look at Renekton. No one complains about his, because it's a fairly slow dash, it can only be used in specific circumstances (has to hit something), it has a very long cooldown, and, most importantly, because Renekton doesn't deal massive burst damage.

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb5 votes

Nidalee and Leblanc are still the queen bitches of too safe for what they can do.

AFK Push2 votes

[{quoted}](name=hgjkdlsaf jeldvb,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pEpLLT32,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-06-05T00:04:31.167+0000)

Nidalee and Leblanc are still the queen bitches of too safe for what they can do.

Don't forget riven.

Llanite4 votes

People hate those they can't smash their face at the keyboard and win. Proof? People also hate Teemo Annie Swain NasusDarius Nidalee SingedKatarina Tryndamere Riven Vladimir Garen Gnar none of which is'obscenely safe'

XxCatatoniCxX2 votes

I hear no hate for most of those champs. Teemo annoying though that's all anyone really says, Annie I hear no hate, Swain I hear no hate, Nasus yes, Darius no, Nid no, Singed no, Kat yes (rightfully so), Trynd no, Riven varies, Vlad no, Garen no, and Gnar no. I see a lot more nos than yeses

Rico Nasty3 votes

You have NEVER heard the Nidalee hate threads? Seriously? Did you start playing League 2 hours ago?

XxCatatoniCxX2 votes

Nope I tend to find her just not difficult to deal with like at all honestly. Pick right and she's a non-factor

Frikgeek6 votes

Nidalee and Gnar are obscenely safe.

NinjaFifer3 votes

Teemo Shroom farm and MS boost with a blind for those auto attackers out there.

Swain Stupid sustain if multiple champs are in range of his ult. You can get to him, but killing him before he gets to tower is quite hard. Plus, get snared and you're dead.

Nasus Drops a dumptruck on your move speed. Good luck catching him.

Darius Gank as a melee champ and watch him get a double kill.

Singed Rule #1: Don't chase Singed. Rule #2: DON'T CHASE SINGED.

Tryndamere Dash and AOE zero cast time no cost AD reduction. Again, you might catch him, but good luck killing him before he gets to tower when you lose an item's worth of AD. Best you can really do is get him to burn his ult.

Riven 4 small dashes and a stun and shield. Lol, you smoking something?

Vladimir Troll pool

Garen MS boost and % damage reduction shield. Again, you can catch him, but you won't kill him in time.

Gnar Jump and MS slow, and a passive that gives him an MS boost. Not only will you not catch him, but he'll just kite you around.

I'll give you Katarina and Annie and Nidalee as being unsafe laners, but all the rest are actually obscenely safe to lane with. All of them will take solid coordination and a lot of CC to kill them before they get to tower. If any of the guys I listed are at >75% HP and not pushed all the way to tower, they'll get away without having to burn any summoners. A couple of them you'll get the ult down, so they're not impossible to gank, but still very safe.

iainB854 votes

To me there are a few things that contribute to a champion being hated:

  • Safety / Mobility (You can't catch me lucky charms!) Katarina Leblanc LeeSin Nidalee Fizz Riven Kalista Zed
  • Reset Mechanics (Unlimited comeback potential) Katarina Darius (especially pre-nerf)
  • Overloaded Kits (We are just simply better even if we fed early game) Yasuo Ekko Gnar Thresh
  • Being Satan Himself Teemo
ZeeDrakon3 votes

champs a lot of people complain about: Leblanc. k, shes quite safe Katarina. meh. she either cant ward or cant escape the gank itself, not that safe Kalista. not that safe either if you have hard cc, depends on the jungler jinx. not safe at all irelia. easy to gank aswell nasus. safe? not at all fiora. not safe either. ekko. hes safe aswell

these are the champs i see the most complaint about on the boards. did i forget anyone?

Lugg6 votes

Kat is pretty safe. All she had to do is drop a ward or have a nearby minion before she goes in. Plus she gets a 15% damage reduction when she Shunpos. Kalista is pretty safe. Can kite for days. Hard CC will stop any champ, so that isn't a valid reason. Jinx has her chompers and a slow. So she has some safety. Irelia can dash to a minion. So some safety. Nasus has the best slow in the game and great lifesteal. Pretty safe. Fiora has a double dash. Pretty safe. Especially if she has her ult. Just ult back to full health off of lifesteal.

ZeeDrakon5 votes

i kind of expect the jungler to be intelligent enough NOT to gank a katarina when theres a minion wave behind her, so yea she can wardjump but that means she cant actually ward anywhere.

kalista has no real gapcloser unless you actually have to run at her.

an easily avoidable slow and an even more avoidable snare doesnt make a safe kit unless your stupid enough to walk into it

irelia can jump to an ENEMY minion. thats most likely on the ENEMY side of the map. where is that safety?

he can only wither one person, and lifesteal doesnt help when you get ganked since turning to Q will take time. you dont really gain anything

fiora, again, has a double dash against ENEMIES. where is that safety???

Lugg3 votes

You do know champions can place more than 1 ward right? I was talking about Kalista kiting backwards. Chompers are great, by the time you walk around them, she is back at turret. Irelia's dash resets too. Let's not forget her stun and built in tenacity as well. If you can't get away from someone with whither on them, you deserve to die. Fiora can dash in, trade, and then dash out. That is pretty safe to me.

insaiyanbacca2 votes

{quoted}

Kat is pretty safe. All she had to do is drop a ward or have a nearby minion before she goes in. Plus she gets a 15% damage reduction when she Shunpos. Kalista is pretty safe. Can kite for days. Hard CC will stop any champ, so that isn't a valid reason. Jinx has her chompers and a slow. So she has some safety. Irelia can dash to a minion. So some safety. Nasus has the best slow in the game and great lifesteal. Pretty safe. Fiora has a double dash. Pretty safe. Especially if she has her ult. Just ult back to full health off of lifesteal.

ok kat sure she's pretty safe incorrect cc does not stop olaf or morgana jinx ok irelia's dash is only to enemies so unless your minions are in a place where she can dash to for safety its not that great nasus ok he is fairly safe fiora's dashes only work on enemies see irelia

Troy2426213 votes

Ahri Akali(nerfed) Ekko Fizz GragasKhazix (Was nerfed) Elise (Was nerfed)Kassadin (Nerfed)Leblanc LeeSin Lulu (Nerfed)Nidalee (Nerfed, reworked, nerfed, still hated), RekSai Thresh Yasuo (nerfed)Zed

Leaving out a few because it's been a while and I forget if it was their safety that was nerfed.

pWasHere3 votes

You could list pretty much every champ in the game.

willcarry4gold4 votes

{quoted}

champs a lot of people complain about: Leblanc. k, shes quite safe Katarina. meh. she either cant ward or cant escape the gank itself, not that safe Kalista. not that safe either if you have hard cc, depends on the jungler jinx. not safe at all irelia. easy to gank aswell nasus. safe? not at all fiora. not safe either. ekko. hes safe aswell

these are the champs i see the most complaint about on the boards. did i forget anyone?

when the hell have people complained about nasus, fiora, irelia, OR jinx on the boards recently?

ZeeDrakon2 votes

sadly, there were some...

manbearswine3 votes

Well actually very often the most "beloved" champions have spammable mobility,generally 3 dashes or more,or very low cd on dashes,invunerability also helps,things like: Ahri Akali Fizz Leblanc Nidalee Riven Zed Yasuo Vayne Kalista Ekko They keep nerfing point click cc,how do they expect us to deal with these champions without it? obviously any non complete retard(so eh,10% of these forums?) realizes all skillshot based matchups are VERY heavily skewed in their favor. lack of counterplay is toxic,but for some reason counter-counterplay isn't?

Linna Excel1 votes

Yes, this is why I hate champs like fizz, teemo, leblanc, and zed. They can safely kill you.

Of course a fiddle ult with zhonyas is the same thing: safe murderin'.

LankPants10 votes

Of course a fiddle ult with zhonyas is the same thing: safe murderin'.

He's safe for 2.5 seconds, after that he's fairly fucked.

Borbland1 votes

Lux is not hated while being extremly safe.

CoolKnightST3 votes

If someone can close the gap on her she's still dead. Unlike champs like Gragas Zed Leblanc that can just dash away. Last week in lcs their was a Gragas sleeping. After hit a fell time he just dashed over the wall.

Borbland2 votes

So are KogMaw and Zilean but they are still hated (Ziggs even got nerfed alot)

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