Maybe adc's are the issue not itemization

Sasogwa·Dec 12, 2017·5 votes·288 views

If we can't nerf crit because then adc's would abuse lethality and If we nerf lethality not only do assassins get hit but adc's will start abusing bruisery and on hit items (botrk, frozen mallet, Black cleaver, maw, previously steraks)... Then maybe the problem doesn't come from how good x itemization is, but adc's kits and scalings themselves? And the general game context? Like exp repartition not punishing enough, too high gold generation, overall too much free resources given to the duolane, etc. ?

14 Comments

PhearBunnyDec 12, 20172 votes

I'm sorry, but ADCs aren't abusing Lethality. There are traditional ADCs...Vayne,Tristana, Jinx, etc etc.

Then there are Lethality casters....MF,Jihn,Graves.

Lethality casters are strong early/mid game, and abysmally weak late game. Its a fair trade off.

SasogwaDec 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry, but ADCs aren't abusing Lethality. There are traditional ADCs...Vayne,Tristana, Jinx, etc etc.

Then there are Lethality casters....MF,Jihn,Graves.

Lethality casters are strong early/mid game, and abysmally weak late game. Its a fair trade off.

What I mean (obviously) is that if we nerf crit, then in winrates letha and on-hit adc's will dominate, if you nerf letha, crit and on-hit adc's will dominate and if you nerf on-hit, crit and letha adc's will dominate. Yet nerfing one of those is also shitting on other classes of champions using those (melee carries for crit, bruisers for on hit and assassins for lethality). But still, botlane feels like it has too much impact. THEREFORE, the problem is probably not from itemization, but the general powerlevel of the class, and also that of supports. Because of other factors than simply items.

TLDR : I see a lot of people asking for crit nerfs, yet I think the real problem is not crit itemization.

ModKnightsKemplarDec 12, 20171 votes

Who says ADCs will abuse lethality if crit is changed? And who says on-hit is the best adc build? And what resources are given to the bot lane that aren't given to top and mid as well?

hoyohaiDec 13, 20172 votes

For the last question: a slave that is supposed to die for you and be someone to blame /s

AR URFDec 12, 20171 votes

You must main tanks.

SasogwaDec 12, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pE6hAAKM,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-12-12T16:46:55.882+0000)

You must main tanks.

No?

PS : Did you know? Whenever adc's are strong, tanks are automatically strong because they're one of the best classes to protect them.

AR URFDec 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No?

PS : Did you know? Whenever adc's are strong, tanks are automatically strong because they're one of the best classes to protect them.

I'm jk, but ADC's are in a bad spot right now. Getting slaughtered and having to rely on RNG.

HalcyonDwellerDec 12, 20172 votes

You must like calling people biased instead of addressing the points of their argument.

AR URFDec 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You must like calling people biased instead of addressing the points of their argument.

I'll be blunt. There's no having a civil discussion in this generation of narcissists. I can try addressing his points of view, but I'll just get down-voted even if I have facts to back it up. Same shit happened to yasuo when people bring up his win rate. They say "oh that doesn't mean anything"

HalcyonDwellerDec 12, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pE6hAAKM,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2017-12-12T18:04:57.820+0000)

I'll be blunt. There's no having a civil discussion in this generation of narcissists.

Then what was the point of commenting? If you don't think they are capable of thinking reasonably or considering your own ideas, why engage at all? Are you posturing or virtue signaling? Trying to make them feel bad for thinking differently than you do? Honestly, what is it?

I can try addressing his points of view, but I'll just get down-voted even if I have facts to back it up.

I disagree. So long as you present your arguments reasonably I see no reason to downvote you. If you simply dismiss them and say, "no you're wrong" then of course you're going to get downvoted. People get downvoted for acting like asses. But if you present reasons and say stuff like, "I think that isn't the case because..." and then you present evidence and reasoning to connect that evidence to your point, then you're usually good.

Same shit happened to yasuo when people bring up his win rate. They say "oh that doesn't mean anything"

If the only evidence you bring to an argument is win-rate, then you need to go look for some better reasoning to argue with. Win-rate is helpful in conjunction with other reasoning, but simply lamenting over win rate is not enough to support an argument.

hoyohaiDec 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But if you present reasons and say stuff like, "I think that isn't the case because..." and then you present evidence and reasoning to connect that evidence to your point, then you're usually good.

I disagree. I think you will get downvotes if you suggest one of the following: 1. Mages and Bruisers are OP 2. ADC's, Yasuo and Zoe are fair and balanced 3. The Sona nerfs were justified

HalcyonDwellerDec 13, 20172 votes

With more controversial topics you have to slip into the idea more slowly. You don't outright state it in the title, and you make it so people have to read some of your reasoning before your real opinion becomes apparent.

It's an art, but not an impossible one. Writing persuasively is a lovely past-time.

hoyohaiDec 13, 20172 votes

That seems fun.

HalcyonDwellerDec 13, 20172 votes

If you're interested in learning more about argument and reasoning, I recommend "Thank you for Arguing, What Aristotle, Abraham Lincoln, and Homer Simpson can Teach us About the Art of Arguing" by Jay Heinrich. I might have mixed the names around in the title but it should come up, google is magical like that.

You may even be able to find it on websites of universities since they use it for classes on speech and persuasion. Just search google with the book name in quotes and then "file;pdf" afterwards. Be careful of non-'.edu' websites though. There lies the shadier side of the internet.