Tahm Kench has a 37.4% winrate as a support and a 30.4% winrate as a top laner (Plat+)

TotalJerk·Jul 12, 2015·83 votes·9,839 views

Why are we still allowing new champions in ranked week one?

87 Comments

IllllllIIIIlllllJul 12, 201560 votes

I main tahm kench and I can tell u 100% that the guys in plat+ who are playing him don't have the experience I do. I have been playing him from day 1 and didn't just hop on the bandwagon, so if u are pro tahm kench player like me playing him in ranked is fine. but if u are noob who only play tahm for 3 days, please stop playing him in ranked

AtheosisXJul 12, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I main tahm kench and I can tell u 100% that the guys in plat+ who are playing him don't have the experience I do. I have been playing him from day 1 and didn't just hop on the bandwagon, so if u are pro tahm kench player like me playing him in ranked is fine. but if u are noob who only play tahm for 3 days, please stop playing him in ranked

WTF?

TendajiXJul 12, 201536 votes

The joke ----------------------->

      O (your head)

AtheosisXJul 12, 201533 votes

I tend to assume the worst when people post here.

TotalisJul 12, 20155 votes

that's fine, but obvious sarcasm was obvious

Remlap1223Jul 12, 20159 votes

Poe's Law.

Soda PopkillskiJul 12, 20155 votes

Obvious idiocy is obvious, too. No seriously what he wrote right there is just like what half the LoL community would.

WyrmbladeJul 12, 20157 votes

Pffft, I've been playing Tahm Kench since season one

PunkkeeJul 12, 20158 votes

i've been playing Tahm Kench since dota 1

Slamurai JackJul 12, 201518 votes

Of course Tahm has a horrible win rate. Nearly every Tahm I see just eats their teammates at horrible times and bait their teammates with his ult. I don't know if they're trolling or just bad but Tahm is basically Bard 2.0 at this point.

Remlap1223Jul 12, 20156 votes

And like Bard, will be one of those champions that barely gets played, but when they do, ho boy.

Actually, scratch that, Tahm Kench has a low enough skill floor methinks. It's just he's got a really high skill ceiling as well.

I think he's going to be a Lee Sin. Extremely popular, good in LCS, but a low as fuck win rate because he's "freelo."

The LovelessJul 12, 20156 votes

The fucker ate me as Ryze when I just hit 4 arcane stacks. Our team died, he spit me out, and I got focused. I used seraph's so I'm not sure if he thought he was saving me or not...

I don't blame the champ though. I blame the players not knowing the harm they could do by eating certain teammates willy nilly.

AbodyHUN666Jul 12, 20154 votes

but can't you also escape his belly when you chose?

AutoreactiveCD4Jul 12, 20155 votes

There's a minimum amount of time you have to spend in there. I haven't found it that hard to choose when to eat somebody. "Is now a good time to zhonyas?" or "Is this guy screwed?" If yes, eat them.

TaarkiJul 12, 20154 votes

One game I was Ashe and about to kill the enemy and right before I did the last hit of damage Tahm ate me and started walking back to base. This happened twice. So I think these players might just be trolololol.

WheatloafJul 12, 20159 votes

Do you honestly think the people that take new champions straight into ranked are going to bother playing normals for a while just because the champ is disabled in ranked? For various reasons, some people only play ranked, without exception, and their reasons for doing that will generally outweigh any desire they have to just try a new champ asap. You'd only be delaying the torture.

Remlap1223Jul 12, 20152 votes

This guy gets it. Also locking it to champion mastery is a shit idea as well because it punishes extremely long-time players. Maybe if they tied it to all matches it could have worked, but they didn't, so it wouldn't.

Meep ManJul 12, 20156 votes

I fail to see exact correlation between the stated fact and the question. Will it change in Week 2 like that? No. If thats Plat+, why are they stupid enough to play him ranked?

Trias000Jul 12, 20153 votes

Because this game requires mechanical skills, not intelligence

Count LieberkuhnJul 12, 20156 votes

I'd argue that it needs both actually. As a college IT teacher, I've got a ton of students who play that are mechanically skilled (fast reflexes), but can't progress in ranked because they can't comprehend the game at a deeper level; objective taking, anticipating enemy movements (particularly in jungle), and overall team composition strategy DO require intelligence to be good with. And without these, you're not going to go above silver.

Sire HippingtonJul 12, 20152 votes

thats what you'd think, but honestly, decision makeing and understanding of the game still is prety poor in plat-dia most of the time...

For higher dia and above, I'd agree with your statement, but mechanical skill can get you quite high, as only a little minority off league players actually use their brains...

For CarthageJul 12, 20155 votes

To be fair, this time, Tahm's a really simple champ to understand and get a fairly good grasp of.

More often than not, I find that my teammates don't have a clue what to do or expect around me more-so than I messed up a mechanic. Usually things go south trying to save teammates who just don't get it and wind up spitting themselves back out into the enemy team, removing both their and my own escape.

ShockforceJul 12, 20155 votes

Tahm is another champion along the line of those that can severely screw up yourself and your own team.

Along with the likes of Alistar , Bard , Anivia , Blitzcrank , Janna and also summoner 12

The wall with him is not mechanical skill but how good your decision making is. You need to think beyond "can I?" to "should I?" to use him effectively.

AtheosisXJul 12, 20154 votes

He's a new champ. What win rate are you expecting?

AbyssphereJul 12, 201516 votes

{quoted}

He's a new champ. What win rate are you expecting?

His point is that when new champs reliably lose horribly whenever they're picked in ranked, they shouldn't be allowed in it. Tahm having a 30% win rate top meant having someone pick Tahm and going top in a ranked game massively skewed the result of many games, which has to feel shitty in ranked. If you were in a ranked game and you saw someone pick a champ with a 30% win rate, that they've hardly ever played, would you be happy?

DarksideEricJul 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

His point is that when new champs reliably lose horribly whenever they're picked in ranked, they shouldn't be allowed in it. Tahm having a 30% win rate top meant having someone pick Tahm and going top in a ranked game massively skewed the result of many games, which has to feel shitty in ranked. If you were in a ranked game and you saw someone pick a champ with a 30% win rate, that they've hardly ever played, would you be happy?

Then... that would mean potentially any Champion with a low win rate should just be auto banned.

OrangesilkJul 12, 20154 votes

Well, one thing is a 45% winrate like Shyv does, which is low-ish but acceptable.

30% is ridiculous though.

AbyssphereJul 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Then... that would mean potentially any Champion with a low win rate should just be auto banned.

Not really though. With new champions you have a low winrate and there's no chance that the person playing them will be an expert. That's not the same with a standard champion that has a low winrate, because someone could main them and that will go some way to making up for them generally sucking. With a new release you know for a fact that the person playing them doesn't know what they're doing.

I mean, they already ban free week champs, no? So I don't see why new ones is a stretch.

DarksideEricJul 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Not really though. With new champions you have a low winrate and there's no chance that the person playing them will be an expert. That's not the same with a standard champion that has a low winrate, because someone could main them and that will go some way to making up for them generally sucking. With a new release you know for a fact that the person playing them doesn't know what they're doing.

I mean, they already ban free week champs, no? So I don't see why new ones is a stretch.

Except we're talking about low Win % as a focal point, because we've had first week release Champions that had high Win % and there's little argument against them. Use time as a factor only, because bringing Win % in means time is now irrelevant because now time as a factor now becomes COMPLETELY arbitrary.

Say a new Champ comes out, do we ban it for the first week then release it no matter what? Do we keep it banned if it's Win % goes up in Normals? When do you start taking into account their Win % in Ranked? If they dip back under X range do they get auto banned again for just being terrible Champions?

Either do it a flat time based (1st week ban) or don't do a ban at all, which... really... there's no reason there should be a ban on new Champions at all. If players wish to take a brand new Champion they have little to no experience into Ranked that's their prerogative, it's part of how the game (and competitive games in general) work.

But don't try and bring Win % in as a factor that really means anything because we've seen both sides.

ZigzagtigerJul 12, 20154 votes

Ekko

AtheosisXJul 12, 20158 votes

{quoted}

The only time you see decent win rates on a new champ that champ is broken. Thanks for illustrating the point.

Rinky DinkyJul 12, 20154 votes

His winrate was 41% :X

FyshinaTuxJul 12, 20154 votes

I wouldn't dream of trying to play him in ranked right now.

I'll stick to normals until I get a LOT better with him.

No idea why people think "OH! NEW SUPPORT CHAMPION THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO SOLO LANE! GOTTA PLAY IT! IT'LL BE OP AF!!!!!!!". -_-

Spicy RiceJul 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't dream of trying to play him in ranked right now.

I'll stick to normals until I get a LOT better with him.

No idea why people think "OH! NEW SUPPORT CHAMPION THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO SOLO LANE! GOTTA PLAY IT! IT'LL BE OP AF!!!!!!!". -_-

While i normally agree with your sentiment, Tahn honestly isnt that hard to figure out (supp that is). Which is why ive been playing him supp in ranked, and its been FUN

FyshinaTuxJul 12, 20155 votes

No, he's not hard to "figure out". Getting good enough that I feel comfortable playing him in ranked on the other hand...

Wind WhistlerJul 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't dream of trying to play him in ranked right now.

I'll stick to normals until I get a LOT better with him.

No idea why people think "OH! NEW SUPPORT CHAMPION THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO SOLO LANE! GOTTA PLAY IT! IT'LL BE OP AF!!!!!!!". -_-

Riot said he could top lane multiple times prior to his release.

FyshinaTuxJul 14, 20151 votes

Riot said stuff. Yea... Who cares? He's far better, from what I've seen thus far, as a support. He's also classed as a support for his primary role.

Taric is also a champion that would be a support, but can still top lane. Yet, every Taric I see on SR is supporting, or failing HARD at top lane. Pretty much what I've seen from Tahm Kench.

Wind WhistlerJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Riot said stuff. Yea... Who cares? He's far better, from what I've seen thus far, as a support. He's also classed as a support for his primary role.

Taric is also a champion that would be a support, but can still top lane. Yet, every Taric I see on SR is supporting, or failing HARD at top lane. Pretty much what I've seen from Tahm Kench.

All of the top laner Tahm Kench's have been just about as good as me, and out of all the games I've played, I've never lost my lane to my opponent.

MVDuneCatsJul 12, 20154 votes

There are 6 bans (Edit: well, 3 bans). You could always use one of them.

Unless you're hoping that the other team picks Tahm, so that you can get the easy win.

KieferrJul 12, 20154 votes

Honestly whats the difference between playing a newly released champ in ranked and someone just trying a champ he doesn't know how to even play in ranked? For example I never played Annie in my life, so if I pick her, nobody would give a shit. But a tahm kench... Everybody on my team goes apeshit and bullies me, when I'm actually better at tk than Annie.

Crowe StalkerJul 12, 20151 votes

The thing is Annie's kit is pretty simple: Point and Click, a Cone, a Magic/Armor Booster and a Point and Click AoE. Only things you need to learn in the match are managing your passive and learning how much each spell does.

Tahm Kench meanwhile is managing your passive, deciding if and when to shield, swallowing the right target, ulting efficiently, among other things I can't think of because I haven't actually played him. The first week of release, people seem to think that everyone playing the champion either doesn't know what they are doing or opts for a troll build when some people learned after the first two or three games. Don't worry, the stigma will pass (except for poor Bard ...)

I Miss CannonJul 12, 20151 votes

aw yeah, because tahm kench supports that go 0/5 in 10 minutes, never devour me when it makes sense and never even used their ultimate once in the whole game aren't painful to play with. and it's always like that, expect he's on the enemy team, then he's a faker smurf who plays him AP mid lane and pentakills twice in a row.

Crowe StalkerJul 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

expect he's on the enemy team, then he's a faker smurf who plays him AP mid lane and pentakills twice in a row.

Doesn't this pretty much apply to every champion ever? There's a reason why the comparison memes for 'Their (X Champion), Our (X Champion)' are always having their Champion be hardcore (like Renekton being Godzilla or something) while your Champion is a joke (like your Renekton being a Reptar toy from Rugrats)