I was playing support for the first time in awhile today and.... this question struck me. As a tahm kench, my damage is oppressive, but only if it sticks. If a harass supports harass doesnt stick, then it means that support isnt really useful.
How can we change things so that harass supports actually have a niche without breaking the game?
Naalith2 votesArdent is getting nerfed into orbit next patch, so I imagine all of the non-Ardent supports will make a comeback hopefully and harass supports will be better.
KoKoboto2 votesWell I think Tahm Kench is more of a kill lane like Thresh, Blitzcrank, or Leona. It's all in or nothing so I wouldn't call them harass champions. We also know these champions are successful if they manage to all in.
That's more like Nami, Karma, Sona, Lulu. All of those champions can harass because of range and spells.
I don't think harass supports are as weak as you think, especially if those supports stack a lot of AP early. However sustain supports tend to beat out harass supports so that's something you need to consider before you judge.
NoPaxt1 votesdamage is easy to mitigate right now, it's not ardent it's 
k wìx1 votesI was playing support for the first time in awhile today and.... this question struck me. As a tahm kench, my damage is oppressive, but only if it sticks. If a harass supports harass doesnt stick, then it means that support isnt really useful.
First and foremost, i dont think Tahm Kench really classifies as a damage style support, i feel thats more like... 
These style of champions control or peel for the ADC by a combination of damage and cc.
Someone like Tahm Kench is more akin to a 
Style hybrid - where he's very tanky and can catch enemies. Sure, they all bring some damage to the table.. **but its not why they are picked. **
How can we change things so that harass supports actually have a niche without breaking the game?
**I think they are currently in a fantastic spot. ** This is coming from a Plat support main.
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=k wìx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p8svohea,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-09-22T23:19:38.556+0000)
First and foremost, i dont think Tahm Kench really classifies as a damage style support, i feel thats more like...
These style of champions control or peel for the ADC by a combination of damage and cc.
Someone like Tahm Kench is more akin to a
**I think they are currently in a fantastic spot. ** This is coming from a Plat support main.
His Q is 280 base damage, his W is 300 base damage (and if you eat a champion its 32% max health). Tahm kench has oppressive damage - but it doesnt matter how oppressive it is when a marksman just heals your harass.
In the early game, that base damage alone should be enough to bully.... And in any other lane where theres generally not that much sustain you do. If someone with an easy to land 300 base damage ability cant out bully the free sustain... theres kind of a problem, dont you think?
ZephyrDrake1 votesHis Q is 280 base damage, his W is 300 base damage (and if you eat a champion its 32% max health). Tahm kench has oppressive damage - but it doesnt matter how oppressive it is when a marksman just heals your harass.
In the early game, that base damage alone should be enough to bully.... And in any other lane where theres generally not that much sustain you do. If someone with an easy to land 300 base damage ability cant out bully the free sustain... theres kind of a problem, dont you think?
he is a melee champion, you don't pick Tahm to harass but to save your teammates from engages and to engage yourself along with someone else on your team. Base damages don't mean anything since supports are going to be the lowest lvl champions in the game so it takes them longer to reach a max rank on anything since it takes them quite a bit of time for them to reach lvl 9. Sorry but harass doesn't mean "I have high base damages" it's "i can output some amount of damage consistently"
Paroe1 voteshe is a melee champion, you don't pick Tahm to harass but to save your teammates from engages and to engage yourself along with someone else on your team. Base damages don't mean anything since supports are going to be the lowest lvl champions in the game so it takes them longer to reach a max rank on anything since it takes them quite a bit of time for them to reach lvl 9. Sorry but harass doesn't mean "I have high base damages" it's "i can output some amount of damage consistently"
The thread isnt explicitly about my experience with tahm kench support - its about harass supports in general. Champions who dont really bring much except for damage not being able to do very well because their damage simply doesnt stick. But way to further the narrative.
PhDs Nuts1 votesThe thread isnt explicitly about my experience with tahm kench support - its about harass supports in general. Champions who dont really bring much except for damage not being able to do very well because their damage simply doesnt stick. But way to further the narrative.
If you're playing against a heal support, or an ADC with plenty of potions, the damage isn't supposed to stick. You're supposed to either drain their healing resources or gank/all-in them before they can negate the damage.
And the OP is specifically about Tahm Kench, so maybe work on how to make your point.
ZephyrDrake1 votesThe thread isnt explicitly about my experience with tahm kench support - its about harass supports in general. Champions who dont really bring much except for damage not being able to do very well because their damage simply doesnt stick. But way to further the narrative.
you are the one talking about Tahm like he is a harass support when he is not. Not even close so don't come here talking to me when you yourself have no idea what you are talking about. Do not mention Tahm if you are not willing to actually defend him.
k wìx1 votesHis Q is 280 base damage, his W is 300 base damage (and if you eat a champion its 32% max health). Tahm kench has oppressive damage - but it doesnt matter how oppressive it is when a marksman just heals your harass.
In the early game, that base damage alone should be enough to bully.... And in any other lane where theres generally not that much sustain you do. If someone with an easy to land 300 base damage ability cant out bully the free sustain... theres kind of a problem, dont you think?
I agree with you about Tahm having some solid damage numbers, but even still - that's not what its all about. It's about lane control, its about pressure, its about actually landing that damage on a viable target while keeping yourself safe. It's about protecting your squishy partner - your oversimplifying his role.
I think your issue is with ADC Sustain. In terms of early game, I generally feel its fine. I find it pretty easy to harass an ADC main if the support is not protecting them and I can land damaging spells on them. If they come back from their first back with a 
, then my strategy generally moves to harassing the support, which is surprisingly viable. If I had ANYTHING to complain about on the early game bot laning phase, it'd be shields are a bit too powerful currently. They need to cost more resources. As it stands, champions like Janna and Karma have a very easy to answer to almost any trade. But in terms of Sustain through health regeneration/lifesteal? No. It's fine. I think your dead wrong if you think an ADC can outheal a supports harass through the very early laning phase.
In terms of late game, I think ADCs have a bit too much power, I'd like to see other roles have their late game power increased by a small margin via items. This is extremely difficult to do, and while I don't think its a critical problem with the game right now (Carries should be carries!) It'd be a nice to step to shaking up the 2017 ADC Meta we're all living through.
Kynin1 votesCoin gold Gen is much higher than the other two items. So coin is taken on most supports. Coin leads to a more passive playstyle unlike relic and spell thief. The spell thief buff was nice but I don't think it is enough to counter the sustain and gold Gen of coin.
Ardent is getting reworked next patch. That should allow more room for picks other than enchanters.
Hopefully Riot does something like they are doing to Janna to other enchanters. That all seem so similar.
Athenes Lulu1 votesif coin gold gen wasnt so good right now, thats for one
PhDs Nuts1 votesTahm Kench isn't a harass support.
/thread
chipndip11 votesBecause people hated them when they weren't bad?