Remember when Fizz was rebalanced so that he needed to land his ult to all-in?

Yenn·Oct 4, 2017·8 votes·2,124 views

Whatever happened to that?

Because right now, Sheen or Revolver are making his ult pretty optional.

21 Comments

RiotNot SurrenderingOct 4, 20177 votes

There is certainly a lot of damage in his non-ultimate abilities. However, only when he's reasonably far ahead can he one shot someone without his ultimate (especially if they take defensive summoners or build defensively to outscale him). I think Fizz is in a pretty reasonable spot balance wise, though he's just by nature a relatively frustrating champ to play against.

Xion The XIVOct 4, 20173 votes

Or you know what about them fixing his ult so it doesn't have a random hit box. I swear with Fizz it just seems like for his character they role a dice. Just throw your ult in their general direction and watch it snap onto people. I have seen Fizz ults just change 90 degree angles to hit people.

YennOct 4, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Or you know what about them fixing his ult so it doesn't have a random hit box. I swear with Fizz it just seems like for his character they role a dice. Just throw your ult in their general direction and watch it snap onto people. I have seen Fizz ults just change 90 degree angles to hit people.

The latch hit box is strange, but at level 8 with only Revolver + Dark Seal (no stacks), his AA + Q + AA + W + AA combo deals around 850 damage, while most mid champions have a little over 1000 health. That's assuming he doesn't even land his ult, or hit you with Playful / Trickster, or use Ignite.

This is way more problematic than his ult hit box, considering he doesn't even need to land it against immobile champions.

Xion The XIVOct 4, 20171 votes

hmm I haven't seen any real problem against Fizz. But then again I hardly see Fizz last time I saw him was 5 days ago and he was destroyed because he constantly uses his playful trickster to force a fight mid. So I can't really say he is good or bad, because my sample size is too small to see an accurate assumption about it.

BobaFlautistOct 4, 20172 votes

How are you letting him hit you with 3 AAs if he didn't land E (I assume because you didn't include the damage)? I know Q is an auto reset, bit that doesn't help him if he's not already in auto range, which he shouldn't really be.

I mean how is this worse than Talon W'ing you (only hitting the first part) waiting ~4s, e-ing into melee range and doing 903 damage with auto-q-auto w, with only a serrated dirk and doran's blade? This is with 24.4 lethality, mind you, the numbers would be much higher if he specced into raw ad but it is pre-mitigation so it's probably a little less even with the lethality. This is also with no keystone (Thunderlord's anyone?), no ignite, and assuming he misses both w returns.

Assassins do a ton of burst if you let them sit in melee range and smack you. Fizz isn't unique for it.

CrisisEchoesOct 4, 20172 votes

Trust its actually kinda hard to use optimally now as opposed to before. Its skill cap now compared to season 3/4 is a huge difference.

BALDG1VEN BOOMEROct 4, 20172 votes

Fizz and balanced, good one.

He's as balanced as that troll pole he's got

Mig89Oct 4, 20173 votes

It looks like he balances pretty well on it tbh

AaravosOct 4, 20172 votes

I remember that. He became a top laner as a result of that. It was awesome. You want it back?

YennOct 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I remember that. He became a top laner as a result of that. It was awesome. You want it back?

It's better than being killed or forced to recall from 100% health without him landing half of his kit.

AaravosOct 4, 20172 votes

Looks like you never played against that abomination. Btw you can't force a full meele champion to be unable to trade without his ultimate, and he can't 100 to 0 you without his fish early game. Yes, his kit is badly designed, especially this w, but right now little can be done about it without another rework. Even if they decide to rework him, they need to fix the ap itemisation issue first, otherwise the new rework will be a mess just like the assasin " update".

PennsOct 4, 20173 votes

the only thing that changed was his w base damage getting gutted lel

he still needs his ult to all in unless you int hehe

AaravosOct 4, 20172 votes

I think we are talking about 5.2 here.

PennsOct 4, 20173 votes

Idk cause he became a top laner after every big change i can remember xd

AaravosOct 4, 20172 votes

True, but this trend started in 5.2.

ChiTenshiOct 4, 20171 votes

That, and I question the damage his Ultimate can do.

500 (+120%AP)?! Is this an Assassin All-In Tool or Veigar's Ultimate in skill shot form?!?

AhrisOct 4, 20171 votes

The items are the problem. Similar to why Ahri was nerfed every single time, it was because she worked well with items. Ahri's weak burst was helped by items to become good enough, so Riot nerf Ahri's kit so that her burst will be weak even with item.

VekknaOct 4, 20171 votes

If you get the 2-second bonus on W, you end up with 240 + 1.6 AP on a basic ability. His scaling (before sheen or other items) from basic abilities is 1.0 AD + 2.9 AP. For comparison, Zyra's EQR is 1.85 AP, and most mages entire kits including ults are between 2.0 AP and 2.8 AP.