"The problem is electrocute and ignite. At lvl 6: Ignite does 205 damage. Electrocute does 110 damage.
That’s 315 damage, nearly 40% of a champion’s max hp at lvl 6.
How is this shit allowed? 40% of my hp gone to things that aren’t even enemy champion abilities.
I should make a thread about this."
EDIT: this doesn't even factor in minor runes and bonus stats given by domination.
Tahminatrix 30 votesThe problem is electrocute and ignite. At lvl 6: Ignite does 205 TRUE damage
Fixed
AirKingNeo2 votesit's a dot and you're just circlejerking 'tRUe daMaGE'
Tahminatrix 40 votesit reduces healing, the main weakness of dots in general......
AirKingNeo1 votesIt's supposed to finish people off.
flibitydoo7 votesThe purpose of ignite is to be an execution
but the reason why they made it a DoT was to make it so that you can't just have like 5 people walk up to you and ignite you 5 times instantly for massive damage.
In theory they could give it a special clause like Summoner Heal to make it less effective when used in rapid succession but I believe that having it be a DoT means you can never insta-die 100-0 from ignite stacking (whereas even with that heal reduction, you could still send a guy up 1000 hit points if 5 heals went through).
Laceration1 votesignite doesn't stack, a new ignite refreshes the ticks.
AwesomeGuyDj4 votesThats the point he means about it being a DoT. If it was just instant dmg they could theoretically stack.
Thefrostyviking18 votesit's a dot and you're just circlejerking 'tRUe daMaGE'
Point is, its a lot of true damage.
It reduces healing, deals true damage and its targeted, cooldown is also pretty low and it even scales fairly well.
Only way to avoid the damage is zhonya or a barrier of some kind.
Issue here is, its easy to use, deals good damage on a short cooldown, this makes it hella powerful when fighting in the midlane, lane dominance can be decided by something as simple only one side having ignite.
Squishies already struggle with assassins as it is now quite often.
Then add electrocute ontop and as OP wrote, its like 40% of your max health from damage you cant avoid no matter how well you play unless you somehow manage to completely deny them ever getting on you....which is rather unrealistic given the average assassins mobility.
Then we consider that they are already dedicated burst champs who often with a good combo can take 60-100% of a squishies health in a single go, and suddenly that above damage feels rather overbearing.
PhDs Nuts7 votesThe combo does 725 (+50% bonus AD) (+30% AP) damage at level 18, and 505 of it is true damage.
Salamencę8 votesThe combo does 725 (+50% bonus AD) (+30% AP) damage at level 18, and 505 of it is true damage. It's a big reason why armor is garbage. Every AD mid lane/jungler does 220 (+50% bonus AD) magic damage with their combo at level 18.
Good thing you got Tabi/Zhonyas to itemize against Zed's additional 800 magic damage from his electrocute and 2 autoattacks, and 505 true damage.
1300 damage from an AD assassin combo that isn't affected by armor.
Electrocute does adaptive damage so for Zed it would still be doing physical damage.
Danjeng3 votesI thought this whole time adaptive damage adapted to the target's resistances. Like a target with less armor would be dealt magic damage and vice versa. Wow I learned something on the boards this week.
Tahminatrix 1 votesA zed would also have 
and its upgrades flying out the rear. cloth armor still helps against this atleast.
Ryrynounet7 votes"The problem is electrocute and ignite. At lvl 6: Ignite does 205 damage. Electrocute does 110 damage.
That’s 315 damage, nearly 40% of a champion’s max hp at lvl 6.
How is this shit allowed? 40% of my hp gone to things that aren’t even enemy champion abilities.
I should make a thread about this."
But you man, you, where's your summoner's spell ? you can take barrier or heal y'a know ? it's easy to say BROOOOKEN when you don't take into account your own summoner's spells and masteries
FireDrizzle5 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir Ryvals,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=orkk0q41,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-25T13:54:24.501+0000) But you man, you, where's your summoner's spell ? you can take barrier or heal y'a know ? it's easy to say BROOOOKEN when you don't take into account your own summoner's spells and masteries
Having heal vs ignite is a bad disadvantage, you want to use heal when you are low but if you use it when ignited it is obviously effected by the grievous wounds and will heal a lot less than ignite deals as damage.
'
Ignite is bs atm, it just takes nothing to be 1 shot.
Ryrynounet2 votesyou can take barrier or heal y'a know
The cycle of life continue, we say thing, they take only what they want and hide the other things
Rìveń1 votesYou never took into the account that OP may be speaking for both sides?
It's a problem and it's BS even if both sides can do it. 40% of your HP from a summoner + rune is simply not acceptable, at all. It is the reason why damage is so high across the board right now, and literally every champion has access to it.
Giving everyone more damage to keep up with each other DOES NOT create balance.
Malak4 votesHeal is awful against ignite for obvious reasons. Even without the -healing, it heals for less than ignite
Barrier, at least, protects you from the same damage as ignite but you have to time it right and it doesn't really feel good to take. You just went even while playing defensive while the other player can just ignite and kill someone else. Then ignite also gives you vision and applies -healing.
The actual issue is that no one wants to be the "cuck" - most people will want to run ignite and then its a shitfest with ignite/electrocute deciding the fights.
Attticus Finch6 votesWhy exactly is this an issue? You list the damage numbers and then act like its self-evident that this is harming the game. Support your conclusions.
Malak6 votes[{quoted}](name=Attticus Finch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=orkk0q41,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-06-25T19:30:21.918+0000)
Why exactly is this an issue? You list the damage numbers and then act like its self-evident that this is harming the game. Support your conclusions.
I mean, you would think that champion abilities should be the star of the show but then I show you stats like that
SpecterVonBaren1 votesI would think that if Ignite + Electrocute deals 40% of your health that the other 60% came from the champion using them so I'd call a majority of the damage the "Star of the show."
Mast3rShake2 votesIf you get a 60% in school that is a D. Students that get D’s aren’t star students.
Rathar Dashing1 votesThey are if they play sports.
Imagine if someone could bat 600.
SpecterVonBaren2 votesTrying to compare the scoring system of schools, favorably, to anything is asinine.
Radiant Wukong4 votesBetter hope that person didn't rush 
or 
or 
big boi edri5 votesBut... mah 
MohawkBird4 votes[deleted]
Malak3 votesAt least make the numbers realistic if you are trying to make a point. At level 6, Sona (using her since she is one of the squishiest champs in the game) will have 944 HP. Assuming that Electrocute is dealing true damage too, then it is dealing 33% of Sona's HP. You rounded all the up to 40% unnecessarily. This is also considering that she is one of the squishiest champions in the game, who we expect to blow up to damage. It's generous using someone like Sona.
Taking someone else like Nocturne for example (about average on health and growth), who has 1,093 HP at level 6, the damage ends up going down to 29%.
Now factoring in resistances (typically around 30% without any extra resistances) to reduce Electrocute damage we get about 29% damage for Sona and 26% damage for Nocturne.
I don't necessarily disagree with the point you are trying to make, but your numbers are definitely not realistic and are exaggerated quite a bit. 40% of a champion's max HP is much different than ~30% and ~26%. Hell, even when considering all the damage true it still wasn't "nearly 40%" like you seem to say. It was 33%, and I don't know what world you live in that allows you to round up an entire 7%. It's more near to 30% than anything.
Again, before I get downvoted, I don't disagree with the overall point, but I definitely disagree with how you got to it.
This also doesn't even take into account any other summs that the player might be going against. Barrier would eat most of this damage up, and a well timed heal (before ignite) will also eat quite a bit of it up. This post is a little too biased for my liking.
Um..no? Sona has 786.5 base health at lvl 6. Where are you getting your numbers dude?
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sona
it's closer to 40% as I said.
And you wrote a really big ass essay that doesn't really contribute anything. Why are we talking about resistances when ignite is true damage and electrocute scales with bonus ad pretty well and none of this even factors in minor runes and the bonus stats you get from runes. Like yes, electrocute damage does get reduced by armor and MR but does that really matter in this discussion? It's still 40% of max hp as damage with a large chunk of it being true damage.
About defensive summoners
Even if you heal before ignite, ignite does more damage. Heal into ignite is awful. Barrier is better but you trade summoners and still take damage (since barrier runs out, and even if barrier is used well it won't block more than ignite by itself). Not to mention if you take Barrier your friend Zed can go bot and kill people with ignite and your barrier is useless.
Tahminatrix 2 votesWe could also considering the ambient minion damage or general poke that happens, you are definitely right tho.
Ive never seen an assassin run it down mid to kill the enemy laner over and over again without landing a single skill first each time to poke down the enemy a tiny bit.
Well there was one occasion with zed...
TyroneWatermelon3 votesDon't forget the on apes like 
and
Nausicäa 3 votesNah, great gameplay, loads of 'counterplay'.
"Just stay 10 screens away from anyone that can potentially 1 shot you" - Counterplay according to Riot Games.
muted team chat2 votesRiot did this to get people out of the "endless sustain and farming in lane" meta that was horrible.
You need to learn power spikes and lane match-ups better.
Naymliss9 votesThe issue is that with electrocute+ignite enemies can trade extremely well regardless of powerspikes. If you're not playing someone who can run electrocute you're essentially forced to just go back to the old "brainlessly waveclearing and not interacting" playstyle that was oh so hated before simply because you can't win trades against electrocute + ignite.
Amoc1 votesThe issue is that with electrocute+ignite enemies can trade extremely well regardless of powerspikes. If you're not playing someone who can run electrocute you're essentially forced to just go back to the old "brainlessly waveclearing and not interacting" playstyle that was oh so hated before simply because you can't win trades against electrocute + ignite.
Except not really. There are plenty of champs that an assassin has to play carefully against in mid lane. I'm really for or against nerfing ignite/electrocute (personally I don't think they're the primary problems), but you're not helping your case by exaggerating and making stuff up.
Naymliss7 votesI'm not making things up at all. As someone who plays a lot of ahri, the difference in play style in lane when you take electrocute is insane. You can win trades super hard even early game where your abilities don't really do much damage at all just because of electrocutes damage.
Amoc1 votesI'm not making things up at all. As someone who plays a lot of ahri, the difference in play style in lane when you take electrocute is insane. You can win trades super hard even early game where your abilities don't really do much damage at all just because of electrocutes damage.
and in lane, before Ahri has her ult, you can avoid most of her damage via positioning and dodging. Meanwhile, there are plenty of champs who can bully her out of lane with more repeated damage via comet or aerie.
The key with the electrocute + ignite combo is to be very, very careful if you're missing a lot of health.
NineTailedMystic1 votesI can tell you right now, it's not Aerie or Comet that enables those champs to "bully" her out of lane. It's just those kinds of kits in general.
The key with the electrocute + ignite combo is to be very, very careful if you're missing a lot of health.
You mean being at 65% HP? EQ AA Ignite can kill without R at 6 at that percent.
XxDRAGONsAK47xX2 votesyou should see my level 2 Anivia one shots.
Ignite + Electrocute
koshkyra1 votesWhat the fuck i made this exact thread and i got 11 downvotes in an hour
Elohaven1 votesDoesn't even factor in champion abilities.
IaMBiGOnE1 votesLegends say there is a summoner spell called CLEANSE
Kalistarc1 votesMost people on these boards probably don't even realize that Cleanse will get rid of Ignite, Exhaust as well.
Atmosphere1 votesCleanse is pointless against ignite in most situations. Like yes, Ahri just ignited me, but would I rather cleanse the ignite or save it for her charm (which will do much more damage when you factor in other abilities during the CC)? Yes, Cleanse does get rid of Ignite, but with Cleanse down, you're always on the back foot against champs that have CC as well as ignite, and you basically only have one summoner spell against champs without CC since your cleanse is only to counter their ignite.
Kalistarc1 votesWell, summoner spells are at every player's disposal. You can be ignited, but you can cleanse out of it, essentially taking only 1 tick of that damage, which would be equal to one autoattack, so not as much damage. You can also take Barrier and survive an all-in in that way.
There are also defensive runes that counter the power of Electrocute. For example, Bone Plating is a strong direct counter to Electrocute. Second Wind is also a very strong rune for the early game as well.
If you find yourself in situations where the amount of damage you take by Ignite and Electrocute can be lethal or force you out of lane, then you might as well opt yourself for a more defensive approach.
Generally, there are ways to counter most things in the game, and those two are indeed counterable.
Malak1 votesthis is still relevant..problem hasn't gone anywhere just because this thread did
