Reminder: Mobility =/= "Skill"

Malak·Jul 21, 2018·87 votes·15,006 views

I love how people think playing mobile champions means you're skilled

Like no, having mobility is basically having a bunch of get out of jail free cards for when you do dumb shit

Real skill is having zero dashes or movement speed buffs and still dodging skillshots and ganks

EDIT: I don't mean to take credit away from good players. However, the idea that mobility is required for skill expression is dangerous Riot philosophy that leads to mobility creep and an overall shit game.

94 Comments

SwiftKitten88Jul 21, 201839 votes

as someone who mains Nidalee .. this thread is 100% correct.

and its sad to think that a champion as absurdly mobile as Nidalee .

is barely mobile compared to the new champions, like Kayn Pyke and rework Akali , even all the way back to Rakan and Katarina and Talon rework

and im not just taking about the ability the get around the map... the ability to get in and out of fights is mobility

the CC breaks like Rengar and Garen have are "mobility", as they allow escapes otherwise impossible. Garen can also silence u to prevent your own escape spells, escape while he has a speed boost of his own on top of that

i didn't think mobility creep with an issue for years, i just thought. "ok they are adding new champions with mobility"

but mobility creep isn't just "adding more champions with mobility", it's making new hypermobile champion that put to shame nearly all previous types of mobility the game ever had.

i remember when zed was given a 1 second timer before he could move back to his shadow

i remember when nidalee' pounce reset AFTER landing a spear AND successfully pouncing to a hunted target was gutted to be an incremental reset that u don't get the full version to until lvl 16.

and now we have Kayn LITERALLY walking through walls, and outside of the map. Pyke basically getting Rengar ulti on a basic ability..

STEALTH is a type of mobility, pinks wards already don't reveal half the stealthed champions.. and now we are getting shit that not even TRUE SIGHT can counter... please..

i used to think mobility creep wasn't a thing.. and at one point in time ... 3 years ago.. i may have still been correct.. but to think it isn't a thing anymore.. is ludicrous.

LordGeovanniJul 21, 20182 votes

Nidalee Isnt bearly mobile compared to those champions Nid just has her mobility on a form that NID PLAYERS dont want to go into and have to spam one spell (along with the extra movement speed) to get that movement speed while other champions like Kayne and Pyke have windows of speed burst that goes on a long cooldown

SwiftKitten88Jul 21, 20189 votes

{quoted}

Isnt bearly mobile compared to those champions Nid just has her mobility on a form that NID PLAYERS dont want to go into and have to spam one spell (along with the extra movement speed) to get that movement speed while other champions like Kayne and Pyke have windows of speed burst that goes on a long cooldown

first off, you're ever worse that me about forgetting to put commas in.

2nd... her pounce has a 6 second cooldown and it is also your engage tool, so if u want to actually ENGAGE you can't just keep "pouncing toward them" because then u wont be able to do the empowered pounce if and when your spears hits them.

3rd.. kitty form does not give movement speed.. it hasn't since her rework

the fact that nidalee CAN'T chase a Pyke OR a Kayn just proves how bullshit your argument is.

even if u land a spear on Pyke , get true sight, and follow him through stealth he still escapes with his dash.. where as Kayn Kayn dash is actually on a LOWER cooldown than Nidalee pounce.. AND he can walk through any walls.

and get 40% movement speed as opposed to Nidalee 's 10% and only going up to 30% if chasing them through a bush within half a screen or after landing a spear.

and that isn't even taking into account that Kayn in shadow form is also immune to slows and the speed boost is increased to 70%.

so cut the bullshit

Gregorovic08Jul 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

as someone who mains .. this thread is 100% correct.

and its sad to think that a champion as absurdly mobile as .

is barely mobile compared to the new champions, like and rework , even all the way back to and and rework

and im not just taking about the ability the get around the map... the ability to get in and out of fights is mobility

the CC breaks like and have are "mobility", as they allow escapes otherwise impossible. can also silence u to prevent your own escape spells, escape while he has a speed boost of his own on top of that

i didn't think mobility creep with an issue for years, i just thought. "ok they are adding new champions with mobility"

but mobility creep isn't just "adding more champions with mobility", it's making new hypermobile champion that put to shame nearly all previous types of mobility the game ever had.

i remember when zed was given a 1 second timer before he could move back to his shadow

i remember when nidalee' pounce reset AFTER landing a spear AND successfully pouncing to a hunted target was gutted to be an incremental reset that u don't get the full version to until lvl 16.

and now we have LITERALLY walking through walls, and outside of the map. basically getting ulti on a basic ability..

STEALTH is a type of mobility, pinks wards already don't reveal half the stealthed champions.. and now we are getting shit that not even TRUE SIGHT can counter... please..

i used to think mobility creep wasn't a thing.. and at one point in time ... 3 years ago.. i may have still been correct.. but to think it isn't a thing anymore.. is ludicrous.

It seems to me that Pyke doesn't have all that much mobility. He has a single dash and a camouflage/ms boost. He either has to engage and sit there for cooldowns or try and use w but it has a pretty large radius where enemies can see him. Perhaps his ult makes him more mobile but you only get to use it once unless you can successfully get a reset on it.

SwiftKitten88Jul 21, 20183 votes

{quoted}

It seems to me that Pyke doesn't have all that much mobility. He has a single dash and a camouflage/ms boost. He either has to engage and sit there for cooldowns or try and use w but it has a pretty large radius where enemies can see him. Perhaps his ult makes him more mobile but you only get to use it once unless you can successfully get a reset on it.

u dont think 60% movement speed for 5 seconds (even if slowly it decays) while at the same ti getting stealth on the same ability isnt "mobility"

we have already discussed how stealth is mobily as it allows movement around the to get into postion while bypassing wards

he has movement speed on top of that, which is what we started with. and a dash which is also a form of CC which stops anyone from chasing him

Gregorovic08Jul 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

u dont think 60% movement speed for 5 seconds (even if slowly it decays) while at the same ti getting stealth on the same ability isnt "mobility"

we have already discussed how stealth is mobily as it allows movement around the to get into postion while bypassing wards

he has movement speed on top of that, which is what we started with. and a dash which is also a form of CC which stops anyone from chasing him

Not that it isn't mobility but it doesn't seem like all that much. People are warned from very far away and can actually see him from a decent distance away. He can still be seen by control wards and he can cancel the camouflage with his own abilities. I do reiterate, he can't engage all that well without his e, meaning he goes in and uses his best escape.

SwiftKitten88Jul 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Not that it isn't mobility but it doesn't seem like all that much. People are warned from very far away and can actually see him from a decent distance away. He can still be seen by control wards and he can cancel the camouflage with his own abilities. I do reiterate, he can't engage all that well without his e, meaning he goes in and uses his best escape.

so your saying that because its escape mobility it isn't mobility? how is that any different from Nidalee

does that me s Shaco isnt a mobile champions because his mobility also works for escape?

if i pounce over a wall to chance you.. that is 6 seconds until i can pounce again... that INCLUDES my engage pounce which i can only use after landing a spear

landing a spear will reset your ability R so u can swap INTO kitty form, yes... but it wont reset the kitty form cooldowns.

also he has 2 mobility abilties... 3 if u count his ulti... nidalee still only has ONE ability.

Gregorovic08Jul 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

so your saying that because its escape mobility it isn't mobility? how is that any different from

does that me s isnt a mobile champions because his mobility also works for escape?

if i pounce over a wall to chance you.. that is 6 seconds until i can pounce again... that INCLUDES my engage pounce which i can only use after landing a spear

landing a spear will reset your ability R so u can swap INTO kitty form, yes... but it wont reset the kitty form cooldowns.

also he has 2 mobility abilties... 3 if u count his ulti... nidalee still only has ONE ability.

I'm not saying that his e and w and sometimes ult aren't mobility spells but they need to be used sparingly. Nid's jump is on a low cd, so is kat's e and talon's wall jumping.

deadlychuckJul 21, 201810 votes

It's a concept called positioning. This use to be a big deal, and an important skill, back before everyone had a mobility skill or had to fight against a team full of mobility skills.

KhelbJul 22, 20181 votes

Exactly

swimcris111Jul 21, 20189 votes

Wrong, you can only be a high skill player if you play a high mobilitiy champion with no counterplay, duh /s

Spank the FoxJul 22, 20189 votes

What a dumb arbitrary form of gatekeeping

You are not a better player because you play immobile champs.

MalakJul 22, 20185 votes

But actually I am. Players going from a mobile champ to an immobile champ will 100% feed and get hit bit a bunch of skill shots that could have been side stepped. While the opposite doesn’t really happen

ProtoMMXVIIJul 22, 20184 votes

That's still gatekeeping. You're still not a better player because someone is playing an "easier" champion than you. Most champions with mobility have to use that as an engage tool or a tool in fights, unless they're insanely fed. If the Pyke is using his dash, or the Leblanc her W, to dodge a Morgana Q everytime it's thrown near them, they're not playing that champion well and yes they're using it as a get out of jail free card. But it's stupid to generalize that a Zed or Katarina playing equally well as a Lux or Xerath has the easier champion.

MalakJul 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That's still gatekeeping. You're still not a better player because someone is playing an "easier" champion than you. Most champions with mobility have to use that as an engage tool or a tool in fights, unless they're insanely fed. If the Pyke is using his dash, or the Leblanc her W, to dodge a Morgana Q everytime it's thrown near them, they're not playing that champion well and yes they're using it as a get out of jail free card. But it's stupid to generalize that a Zed or Katarina playing equally well as a Lux or Xerath has the easier champion.

I don't take credit away from good players but, the idea that mobility is required for skill expression is dangerous riot philosophy that leads to mobility creep.

MordepoolJul 22, 20182 votes

Just watch a Yas main play another Champion and wonder at thier obvious lack of positioning

AnAggravatedPimpJul 21, 20187 votes

I'm not disagreeing but it's not hard to escape a gank when your immobile champ has a stun, a slow, and hella burst damage.

I think it more "Don't call yourself skilled when you just pressed a few buttons, when you turn a gank into a double kill as an immoble champ then you can talk"

Tahminatrix Jul 21, 201814 votes

{quoted}

I'm not disagreeing but it's not hard to escape a gank when your immobile champ has a stun, a slow, and hella burst damage.

I think it more "Don't call yourself skilled when you just pressed a few buttons, when you turn a gank into a double kill as an immoble champ then you can talk"

I don't think TahmKench slows do anything to escape ganks, its a self root ontop of the fact that the enemy Riven doesn't even need to avoid the slow, she can just ignore it by spamming q and e.

Then she spams mastery 7 after wasting all her qs to gap close onto me and then still doing insane dmg with just her autos due to her passive which rewards her just for using her abilities rather than landing them.

LordGeovanniJul 21, 20181 votes

Slows do alot if the slow strength is strong enough at a long enough range Obviously not versus riven and yasou and stuff like that.

The Bad TouchJul 21, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Slows do alot if the slow strength is strong enough at a long enough range Obviously not versus riven and yasou and stuff like that.

So all of the most played champs?

SugeMinPikkJul 21, 20181 votes

Tahm just eats his teammate and walks away with two lifebars lol I don't think that's a very good example. What about Vel'Koz or TF?

Tahminatrix Jul 21, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Tahm just eats his teammate and walks away with two lifebars lol I don't think that's a very good example. What about Vel'Koz or TF?

2 life bars is like saying tryndamere has infinite lifebars, tahm`s e only lasts 3 seconds, its not a second healthbar.

JoeAnarchyJul 21, 20186 votes

skill is beating those mobile champs with an immobile champ

RebeccaUCuberJul 22, 20181 votes

U couldn't summarize it better*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]* !

chipndip1Jul 21, 20186 votes

Reminder: Mobility =/= Skill

Using mobility well = skill.

Being salty about mobility champs wiping the floor with you =/= a valid point.

LordGeovanniJul 21, 20183 votes

But the skill required to use mobility well Just means that your champion has power that the enemy champion may not have or be able to counter. Thus its as interactive as Nunu Pressing w and spamming e

chipndip1Jul 21, 20186 votes

That's like a Zed player being mad that he got stunned because he doesn't have a stun, or an Ekko being mad that he got poked out because he doesn't have super aggressive poke.

It's such a scrubby, childish argument.

LordGeovanniJul 21, 20182 votes

No because stuns on most champions have lower damage wind ups and Longer cooldowns because on itself and other spells in the champions kit while champions like zed spam Q in combos hitting multiple people with tons of damage while having instant blinks And Low cooldowns Only Zed's w has a long cooldown And only during the early game as it disappears after cdr is bought and levels put into it. Poke Is much like mobility hardly ever Lowered because of super long range and low cooldown or given higher cooldown because of super long range or High damage

chipndip1Jul 21, 20189 votes

{quoted}

No because...

And your point is invalid.

Why? Because similar to how you can try to justify one half of the argument, someone else can sit here and justify the other half. For example:

Stunning projectiles come from a distance. Many champs that are mobile don't have massive ranges to fight back with, so they have to stick their necks out more than, say, Anivia or Veigar have to.
Stuns/Snares may not do damage, but they're hit confirms for moves that WILL do a lot of damage. Lux's Q isn't deadly because it does 1/2 your hp. It's because she's going to E and ult you right after, which will do 1/2 your hp or more.
Mobility champs use dashes to get out of jail. Champs with stuns and shit use their stuns and shit to get out of jail. What's the problem?
Many immobile champs have better scaling than mobile champs in general. When you need a bot lane mage, you don't pick Ahri. You pick Vlad/Swain/Brand. Hell, even Morgana, who's also immobile. In the pro scene, we see Talon show up in the mid lane, yeah, but we're seeing Orianna, Ryze, and Zoe, all champs with no escape tools.

This is the type of critical thinking you should be doing on your own before making the claim that mobile champs just have this massive leg up on immobile champs.

KhelbJul 22, 20181 votes

This is the type of critical thinking you should be doing on your own before making the claim that mobile champs just have this massive leg up on immobile champs.

It's obvious. Let me break your bullshit down point for point:

Stunning projectiles come from a distance. Many champs that are mobile don't have massive ranges to fight back with, so they have to stick their necks out more than, say, Anivia or Veigar have to.

The stupid amount of mobility allows for them to not need range on anything. So, The Range in this case = 0 advantage while the mobile champs get an extra advantage of being able to be where they want to be.

Stuns/Snares may not do damage, but they're hit confirms for moves that WILL do a lot of damage. Lux's Q isn't deadly because it does 1/2 your hp. It's because she's going to E and ult you right after, which will do 1/2 your hp or more.

Again, when a champ is mobile they have the advantage of easily staying out of range of stuns/snares while then being able to move into range when the time is right. Advantage mobility, with disadvantage to immobility.

Mobility champs use dashes to get out of jail. Champs with stuns and shit use their stuns and shit to get out of jail. What's the problem?

The problem, again, is fucking beyond obvious. Mobile champs can use their mobility to avoid stuns or wait for an opportune moment to strike. An immobile champ DOES NOT have that option. Another clear and ridiculously obvious disadvantage to immobile champs.

Many immobile champs have better scaling than mobile champs in general. When you need a bot lane mage, you don't pick Ahri. You pick Vlad/Swain/Brand. Hell, even Morgana, who's also immobile. In the pro scene, we see Talon show up in the mid lane, yeah, but we're seeing Orianna, Ryze, and Zoe, all champs with no escape tools.

A. This is not realistic. Most of the new champs with high mobility have more scaling than they should have. The reason you don't pick an Ahri bot lane is b/c she has less utility to protect the adc than someone like a Morg has. Brand's issue is not his scaling, but his base dmg, I'm pretty sure a Rioter even admitted this recently. Also, Zoe certainly has mobility once she starts snapping up summoner spells.

B. Even if this were 100% true, which it's not, it has nothing to do with the effectiveness of mobility. Mobility VS immobility gives a clear advantage to the champ with the mobility. It allows them more tools to decide what to do or what not to do and gives a clear tactical advantage in the ability to make that decision VS needing to constantly be aware of the positioning of your own immobile champ and every other mobile champ.

In conclusion extreme mobility of so many champs has fundamentally changed the way the game is played and I'd argue that it's changed it negatively. Positioning and champion strengths matter much less for the mobile champs and are basically irrelevant for the immobile champs. Positioning and understanding champion kits was a big learning curve and an important part of what made League so fun to play. A lot of those interactions are gone now thx to some idiots deciding to continuously release broken shit. THIS is the type of critical thinking needed to understand why your points lack any sort of realistic critical thinking.

My Waifu VanillaJul 22, 20182 votes

Wait.......did you think he was talking about....Ahri support? Are you dense? It's bot lane in the carry position....you know that role that Swain, Vlad, and Heimer fill that Brand also SOMETIMES fills. She doesn't need to peel for her ADC because there IS no adc.

Also, if you have to use your mobility to dodge spells you aren't using it to engage which just leads to you getting outscaled since MOST mobile champions (the entire assassin class really) doesn't scale well. At all. Get to 5v5 teamfights and the mobile champions get blown up by stray CC into combos while outputting significantly less damage than actual mages. EVERYONE dies the same on CC in teamfights, but mages can usually make the most out of what little time they have in the fight because their damage is AoE and also generally frontloaded as well.

chipndip1Jul 22, 20182 votes

Thanks for understanding.

ProtoMMXVIIJul 22, 20182 votes

What kind of argument is that? A Katarina keeping position of her W and Q daggers and knowing which targets to Q or daggers to shunpo to, while also dodging CC, is as interactive as a Nunu's point and click abilities? If you take two minutes to watch a good Katarina or Zed player who make the most of their mobility, you'll see more than just champions running away from fights like what happens in Bronze and Silver.

It sounds like from your comments that you just hate mobile champions. The mobility creep is real, but you better learn to adapt to it because if you get ruined by a Katarina 30 times in a row and just complain about her no skill mobility, it won't help you.

cocacolalipsJul 22, 20186 votes

You are skilled if you climb the ranked ladder, nothing else. It doesn't matter which champions you play, be it Ashe or Katarina, diamond is diamond.

Morgana UltimaJul 22, 20186 votes

As a Morgana main I love being told how overpowered Morgana is when:

1.) You can't land her ult ever without flash unless somebody makes a critical mistake. Any champion with a dash will easily escape it.

2.) Anyone with a dash is basically immune to her Q unless they make a mistake.

What characters fall into that list? About 50?

Spirt Gun YuskeJul 22, 20182 votes

Morg Q is actually hard to sidestep if thrown well , it's pretty wide and every time her Q hits it's a sure kill assuming there are people there to fight. There are very few champions that guarantee kills like morgana does. Nobody is "Immune" - bait out the dash

Also Morgana main, she's broken as hell she can hard-carry games, the thing is , other things are just as broken Rakan Pyke .

ShablagooJul 22, 20184 votes

Isnt it more how they use their champions rather then the mobility, for example using your mobility to dodge a skillshot is a form of skill no? Its really funny because it seems like its there is anger toward mobility when in reality its just frustration because you play a immobile champ and want to dash around too. Understand that when you play a immobile champion you have signed up for the fact that you are not mobile therefore have to play smarter.

Ionian VulpixJul 22, 20184 votes

Yes, it certainly does take skill to master Garen.

Using your mobility properly does take skill. You aren't a better player for playing someone without it. You're just a whiny low-tier hero. YOU choose what champion you play, don't complain if the one you choose is bad.

MasterDCloneJul 21, 20183 votes

Positioning = skill if you dont have dashes or if you do makes no difference if you dont have good positioning

SwiftKitten88Jul 21, 20183 votes

i would also like to chime in again, as a Nidalee main, a person who is a 2nd support whos supports are Morgana Lux and Blitzcrank .. and who other jungler is Warwick .

being able to dodge skillshot can be hard..

it mean sure im sure there are a LOT of people not very good at aiming... or predicting the enemy movements... watching thier patterns.

but EVERY champion i play in some way or form has a key ability that needs a skillshot to land.

and i am not ashamed to say.. flat out... my mechanics SUCK. i have HORRIBLE click accurately, i cant stutter step to save my life.

but what i CAN do... is land skillshots.. thats why i PLAY these kinds of champions.. because it allows me to outsmart my opponents.. when i could never "mechanically" outplay them.

and it is a RARE day indeed where i meet someone who is actually decent at dodging

maybe its because im a nid main, and my entire existence in the game depends on landing these shots, I'm sure that has something to do with it anyways.

but once every 50-100 games.. maybe twice.. i get an opponents.. who i CAN'T predict.. who is always one step ahead.

and it really saddens me i dont see this more often.. if i miss a skillshot... 80% of the time its becuase .. i missed... they didnt dodge it.. i just miss predicted their movements. and with 1500 nid games.. i dont normally even THROW skillshot a spears if it is ganna miss.

but there are players.. that make me look like i can't hit the broad side of a barn.. its VERY rare. but they exist.

and its something that is a lost art.

Tundra HunterJul 22, 20181 votes

As a Warwick main I mostly E flash E R

Because E is predicable and R is dodgeable (with any mobility or flash, eventually side step).

ThistleminJul 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I love how people think playing mobile champions means you're skilled

Like no, having mobility is basically having a bunch of get out of jail free cards for when you do dumb shit

Real skill is having zero dashes or movement speed buffs and still dodging skillshots and ganks

It also allows you to take on a lot more risk and tower dive type maneuvers that other kits can't even consider, ie. they are a case of have's vs. have nots. Talon = First five seasons of Lee Sin cancer.

Tundra HunterJul 22, 20182 votes

I am not the best mechanically either... maybe partly because I am older (30 y/o)

which is why I like champions who can succeed with smart macro play

VelasanJul 22, 20182 votes

You can skillfully use dashes, but yes a dash by itself is not skillful. For the most part having mobility gives your champion more flexibility.

How a player uses that built in flexibility is what makes someone good or bad, and that extends to any strength in a champion kit whether that be making picks with strong crowd control or engaging fights.

Tuition FeeJul 22, 20182 votes

dodges four skillshots with Fizz's E "Lul I'm pro should be challengur hurhurhur" Pretty much the equivalent of flashing a blitzcrank hook and flashing an emote, or Yasuo windwalling at the beginning of a fight and blocking a shit ton of stuff and flashing M7.

SugeMinPikkJul 21, 20181 votes

They're two different kinds of skill. One predictive, one reactive. One can be easier than the other, depending on what kind of person you are. Pobelter, for example, admits to a slow reaction time, and that all his skillshot dodges are predictive.

sobi999Jul 21, 201810 votes

Nope. Dodging a skillshot because you have dash in your kit requires less skill than dodging it by side-stepping because you predicted where the enemy will shoot.

Besides dodging, mobility can also mean if you get caught out of position you a free escape or if you get caught out by facing a bush and etc.

AmazoXJul 21, 20181 votes

Except it does mean you are skilled, because you are able to comprehend which position you should leave & go towards.

ahferroin7Jul 21, 20185 votes

No, that's not mobility, that's positioning. The two are very different things. In fact, quite often you don't have to be quite as good at positioning if you're playing a highly mobile character, simply because you have more ways to get out of trouble if you end up in a bad position.