I play Sona and I HATE playing ranked

RedCyclone·Aug 21, 2015·5 votes·1,378 views

AND IT'S ALL 'S FAULT

I don't build it I don't like being forced to build it I don't like having only 5 item slots I especially don't like losing primarily on the fact that I explained to my team in pre-game chat that I love playing support, but I will not build a sightstone due to the fact that it gimps my playstyle that I enjoy very much and then they all kick, scream and give up on life primarily because I do not build this single item even though Riot seems to behind the fact that Sightstone should not be a gated item for supports but the community thinks otherwise

From a 5 win 8 losses Platinum V support Sona main ( 3 of those wins are because I went AP Sona mid) Now I will await the upcoming downvotes from people who think supports should 100% have a sightstone

(another words, please for the love of god make a decent AP Sightstone RIOT)

26 Comments

Baby GhoulAug 21, 20157 votes

Please stop.

The supports number one priority is map control. Everyone needs to be warding, but the support should be battling with the other support for control over the map.

item 2049 item 3341 are a must to accomplish this. You can argue that supports should actually be able to have 5 slots, or that Sightstone should have more than just health, and I would agree with you. However don't be _that _ support, especially in ranked.

item 3361 is not sufficient.

dannykunAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The supports number one priority is map control.

Wat.

This is literally not the Supports major role, This is the junglers job. Jungler's rose prominately in the Meta to create a ton of Map pressure and control. The Supports job in the vision war is to help by supplying vision for choke points and deny opponents their vision in whatever way they see fit. The supports ACTUAL job is to help keep everyone else alive so they can deal damage by either providing hard engages, disengages, peel, poke, weakening opponents, or buffing their allies. Whatever is available in their kit. If you think that Supports are just vision bitches then you are sorely mistaken and will lose many games from a lack of understanding of the roles actual primary objective. Vision just happens to be the best method of preventing unknown variables from ruining your day.

Baby GhoulAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wat.

This is literally not the Supports major role, This is the junglers job. Jungler's rose prominately in the Meta to create a ton of Map pressure and control. The Supports job in the vision war is to help by supplying vision for choke points and deny opponents their vision in whatever way they see fit. The supports ACTUAL job is to help keep everyone else alive so they can deal damage by either providing hard engages, disengages, peel, poke, weakening opponents, or buffing their allies. Whatever is available in their kit. If you think that Supports are just vision bitches then you are sorely mistaken and will lose many games from a lack of understanding of the roles actual primary objective. Vision just happens to be the best method of preventing unknown variables from ruining your day.

I didn't say supports were only there to provide vision, so please don't jump to conclusions and make accusations. I'm doing fine as support, and I haven't had any complaints yet. Map control is part of the supports job, and it's a major reason why people upgrade sweeping lens.

Sweeping lens is not only useful for destroying wards. It can disable wards from around the corner, reveal Teemo shrooms, reveal Vayne, etc. It's just way too useful not to be in the supports build. Upgrade your sweeping lens people.

Yeah, you're supposed to do other things as support, but you need to be denying the enemy vision as much as possible. That's not the junglers job.

dannykunAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I didn't say supports were only there to provide vision, so please don't jump to conclusions and make accusations. I'm doing fine as support, and I haven't had any complaints yet. Map control is part of the supports job, and it's a major reason why people upgrade sweeping lens.

Sweeping lens is not only useful for destroying wards. It can disable wards from around the corner, reveal Teemo shrooms, reveal Vayne, etc. It's just way too useful not to be in the supports build. Upgrade your sweeping lens people.

Yeah, you're supposed to do other things as support, but you need to be denying the enemy vision as well.

I believe the words you used were primary and nothing else. So I'm not jumping to conclusions. other than that pretty much everything you've said about the Sightstone is right, until you reach the 6 item mark. I will say I'm more partial to the upgraded pink trinket over the sweeping lens as it tends to go by unnoticed if you place it well and can give you a good idea about where wards are being placed around neutral objectives. I use sweepers when I need to disable traps or when I see that the jungler isn't making good use of the raptor's

The problem is that the vision war has actually taken a pretty hefty turn in terms of denying vision. With the Raptor's smite buff I feel junglers catch more wards than I do with sweepers as a support, and the wolves buff provides much better intel on the whereabouts of the enemy jungler often times (especially when a jungler knows that they can walk into the enemy jungle and smite wolves and shove off for good mid game vision).

The Supports need a much better defined role in the vision war, either by making sightstone a much better support item, or by simply handing the vision war over to the roaming jungler who can better cover the battlefield with wards than roaming supports can. Especially considering leaving your ADC alone for longer than 4 seconds can result in lost farm or even death.

Also in Sona's case, she's been gimped too hard to be viable as a support. Her utility is tied too much to AP, making Her AP builds and Utility builds pretty hard to distinguish. I understand fully why you wouldn't want a sightstone as Sona, she needs AP to be able to do what many other supports can do without AP, and a lot of it at that. everything has to be weak for her because her kit has too much in it, with no focus. There's been plenty of discussion on that topic, but I'd say if you're playing support it's just better to look at other supports because she's just too scattered as it is, and lacks the power to compete with a nami or leona support.

Baby GhoulAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I believe the words you used were primary and nothing else. So I'm not jumping to conclusions. other than that pretty much everything you've said about the Sightstone is right, until you reach the 6 item mark. I will say I'm more partial to the upgraded pink trinket over the sweeping lens as it tends to go by unnoticed if you place it well and can give you a good idea about where wards are being placed around neutral objectives. I use sweepers when I need to disable traps or when I see that the jungler isn't making good use of the raptor's

The problem is that the vision war has actually taken a pretty hefty turn in terms of denying vision. With the Raptor's smite buff I feel junglers catch more wards than I do with sweepers as a support, and the wolves buff provides much better intel on the whereabouts of the enemy jungler often times (especially when a jungler knows that they can walk into the enemy jungle and smite wolves and shove off for good mid game vision).

The Supports need a much better defined role in the vision war, either by making sightstone a much better support item, or by simply handing the vision war over to the roaming jungler who can better cover the battlefield with wards than roaming supports can. Especially considering leaving your ADC alone for longer than 4 seconds can result in lost farm or even death.

Also in Sona's case, she's been gimped too hard to be viable as a support. Her utility is tied too much to AP, making Her AP builds and Utility builds pretty hard to distinguish. I understand fully why you wouldn't want a sightstone as Sona, she needs AP to be able to do what many other supports can do without AP, and a lot of it at that. everything has to be weak for her because her kit has too much in it, with no focus. There's been plenty of discussion on that topic, but I'd say if you're playing support it's just better to look at other supports because she's just too scattered as it is, and lacks the power to compete with a nami or leona support.

Look up the definition of primary. In no way does that word mean only. You were jumping to conclusions, which I didn't appreciate. I never said the only job of a support is map control, but almost everyone agrees that it is a top priority.

I actually agree with almost everything you're saying, but the way you started it was not great. I actually think Sightstone and Sweeper are already great items, but they feel a little underwhelming to buy on champions like Sona. I mentioned in my post that the support role should be looked at in more detail. Either they need an extra slot for wards, or the Sightstone items needs to have something other than health attached to it. I completely agree with that.

However you do need to build Sightstone, even when you're playing Sona. That extra AP is just not going to be worth it if you do not have control over the map by giving up Sweeping Lens. If people get upset with you for pulling that in ranked, then I don't blame them. The support has many different jobs, but map control is a big part of it. I don't think a pink ward gets the job done. I use pink wards even when I have Sightstone.

dannykunAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Look up the definition of primary. In no way does that word mean only. You were jumping to conclusions, which I didn't appreciate. I never said the only job of a support is map control, but almost everyone agrees that it is a top priority.

I actually agree with almost everything you're saying, but the way you started it was not great. I actually think Sightstone and Sweeper are already great items, but they feel a little underwhelming to buy on champions like Sona. I mentioned in my post that the support role should be looked at in more detail. Either they need an extra slot for wards, or the Sightstone items needs to have something other than health attached to it. I completely agree with that.

However you do need to build Sightstone, even when you're playing Sona. That extra AP is just not going to be worth it if you do not have control over the map by giving up Sweeping Lens. If people get upset with you for pulling that in ranked, then I don't blame them. The support has many different jobs, but map control is a big part of it. I don't think a pink ward gets the job done. I use pink wards even when I have Sightstone.

Primary: of Chief importance or principal.

In context, yes you're wrong. Granted I did word it wrong when I said you called support a vision bitch (as most people do in fact view supports as map warders and not much else in unranked/bronze elo's). but you are saying that map control is The supports most important objective, when it's not and my argument was in fact that the roles Primary objective is to provide your teammates with the greatest chance at winning by giving everyone else the necessary means to do so. The vision war is a means to an end, no one can deny that vision is the greatest way to deter a gank or set one up.

That being said performing the primary objective in the support role means tending to your allies needs whether that be peeling healing buffing toughing out damage or getting vision during the times when your team is setting up for their next play. When shit is going down, I don't go around throwing vision around unless it's absolutely vital (pinks/sweeping if akali disappears or the like)

I know that sightstone is vital on someone if you're planning on winning the vision war, I just hate that it's so useless when you're reaching your item limit. I really wish it were a trinket upgrade, something to the effect of pay 400 gold and you get a new trinket with gain a charge every 60 seconds to place a 180 second ward with a max 3 charges or something like that. sure it's not as powerful as a sightstone, but it would allow for better builds with supports. I would even love for the gold generating items to be sightstones in their second/final forms, that way upgrading your gold generating items naturally provided you with a means to ward better AND continued to give you gold and stats in the necessary area's your champion prefers (AP for poking champs, tank stats for tanky supports, and lots of Regen for sustain supports).

Red RyuAug 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Please stop.

The supports number one priority is map control. Everyone needs to be warding, but the support should be battling with the other support for control over the map.

are a must to accomplish this. You can argue that supports should actually be able to have 5 slots, or that Sightstone should have more than just health, and I would agree with you. However don't be _that _ support, especially in ranked.

is not sufficient.

Not true, anyone can perform map control.

What need to be able to is apply and use their utility for what they do.

Warding is important but it is not the only priority.

IcyPepperAug 21, 20155 votes

Well, the support should be warding.

Actually, everyone should be warding. Sightstone is for the support's convenience since they don't have the gold income to buy an assload of wards. Everyone else? They should be willing to spend 75 gold here and there and eventually 250 gold on a trinket upgraded.

Sightstone is a supplement, not a crutch.

RedCycloneAug 21, 20152 votes

item 3361

IcyPepperAug 21, 20152 votes

Incredibly useful, but only available at level 9. Which might be awhile in a shared XP lane, and even more so if you roam as a support (which you should be doing).

Man, how I wish sightstone could replace the trinket slot. Like, if you're willing to spend 800 gold early it just upgrades your trinket. If you need pinks to clear wards, you can save your sixth slot for that.

ZmuecatAug 21, 20154 votes

Nah, I'd like to keep my sweeper.

Sightstone just needs a reason to upgrade it. You get blue then sit on it until you're like "NOTHING ELSE TO UPGRADE". It's a great item and not building it as support is pretty much just playing with a hand tied behind your back. If Riot gave it enchantments (like boots) then it's be a great buy. They could even hinder people outside of support from buying it by giving it a restriction (like having a gold generation item or speccing deep into utility).

Frostfang also needs a tad bit of love, dunno if it's been changed at all but I don't ever upgrade blue line anymore.

IcyPepperAug 21, 20151 votes

I could see it boosting/complimenting your support item.

If you have coin or talisman, it could boost your MS (so useful for AP supports with low base MS). If you have relic or FotM, it could give you a 5% bonus health boost If you have ancient coin, it could give you 5-10% bonus AP

I dunno. There's so much they could do with sightstone, but they're doing nothing.

TraakSCAug 21, 20151 votes

800 gold for a shit load of wards throughout the game (and hp to boot) is already a priceless item because of vision. I don't see why it needs a buff as it is already OP if you think about how game changing vision is.

ZmuecatAug 21, 20153 votes

We want a reason to upgrade it. There's no great benefit to upgrading to item 2045 . The initial 800 is amazing, no one should ever deny that, but the 800 you spend after that? Meh.

Not even asking for a huge 120 AP item, just want a reason to upgrade to Ruby before "Well, got my other 5 items and I have 800 gold. No reason not to at this point."

TraakSCAug 22, 20151 votes

Ah I see you point. It has been so long since I've been full build as a support, its hardly been an issue.

ZmuecatAug 21, 20151 votes

Ooh, I like that system too. Seems like it could be less complicated than using masteries or enchants as well.

ZephyrDrakeAug 21, 20154 votes

support's main task is to control vision a simple item 3361 is not enough to control vision since you need to DENY VISION AS WELL.

How is one single item gimping your "style" is your style just building pure AP items and nothing more? go play an AP mage if that's what you want. A single item is not enough to "gimp" your "style" since you have none to begin with

RueianAug 21, 20154 votes

simple... dont play ranked unless you are prepared to understand the meta and play around it.

SonasaurousAug 21, 20152 votes

How are you Plat Sona support complaining that you can't blow up enemy champions with 5 items and a Sightstone?

Are you playing AP Sona support correctly? Because I personally have no problems ruining people's lives with OP burst damage, OP heals, OP ms, and item 2049 + item 3364 .

KayVaugnAug 21, 20151 votes

You say you won 3 out of 5 games as sona mid, well you should not be getting a sightstone on a midlaner anyways so that point is pretty much irrelevant. Assuming that you only played 3 games of Sona Mid, then that leaves you at a 2-8 record as Sona support, maybe you should get a sightstone. And you claim to be a sona support main, that record is not good at all for someone who mains not only the role but the champion as well.

TraakSCAug 21, 20151 votes

Supports should support. SS provides support for your whole team with map vision. I mean for 800 gold, it is a pretty good item. I get one sometimes when I jungle. If you can avoid being ganked before 9 then I can see you wanting to hold off on getting one though. Maybe if I was a duo bot queue or something.

MilfHuntUnitXJ9Aug 21, 20151 votes

Using sightstone in mid? Hardly think that many wards is necessary in mid. but eh its situational

Dont listen to what your team tells you to build. Build what you feel is best for your champ, and dont act all pressured because you arent doing what everybody else does.

Bro you have free will and if they wanna complain well thats 1 more thing you have than them

UomoAfideAug 21, 20151 votes

Was it just me or is it true that i recall hearing about an enchantment system for the sightstone? Perhaps it was another item but, were the rumors to be true it would be a really interesting idea.

SachabotAug 21, 20151 votes

It was suggested, I don't know how well Riot took to the idea. Something needs to happen, though, I can't remember the last time I bought RSS.

Adrian UmbraAug 21, 20151 votes

As someone who played support through the S2 and S3 support metas, I'm saddened by this post. We had to fight tooth and nail to get Riot to give us Sightstone at all. Supports pre-introduction of Sightstone very rarely ever reached full build simply because they were having to buy so many wards. After a brief bout of ridiculousness in the Sightstone/boots meta of S3, Sightstone is still one of the most ridiculously efficient items in the game, allowing you to maintain your wards pre level 9, allowing you to use your trinket slot for sweeper, and giving you a bit of health on top of all that.

So telling me you don't ever want to buy Sightstone hurts me deeply inside. Agreed that Riot needs to add more variety to the Sightstone upgrade options, but the item itself is already really good.

BooriinAug 22, 20151 votes

I know how you feel OP

Being a heavy AP depend support, sightstone delay Sona's power quiet a lot. Most people rather pick other laner like Amumu, Nau, Annie...Because they are more reliable, safer to play and easier to spoon feed their carriers while Sona need to take care herself and wait for scale.

Sona feel powerless without her AP items and people prefer other support in their team than Sona.

I playing on Garena server and some people even surprise that I have lvl 5 mastery on Sona, they even asked me that "why would you main Sona? Are you girl?"

I main Sona and I prefer play Ranked because I can ban Blitz, he give me cancer while playing LoL.