"Lulu is permabanned because she's OP, not because this is an assassin meta xD"

DoctorFunguy·Aug 2, 2017·14 votes·1,301 views

Assassins stop being meta and suddenly Lulu isn't banned anymore.

:thinking:

32 Comments

AhristocatsAug 2, 201714 votes

maybe because she got nerfed?

DoctorFunguyAug 2, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olnAIFnP,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-08-02T00:59:12.854+0000)

maybe because she got nerfed?

You means the nerfs that didn't even put a dent in her banrate or pickrate? The nerfs to her shield's shielding when she used it for damage anyways and -2 hp? Those nerfs?

SintamaAug 2, 20173 votes

If the nerfs didn't put a dent in her ban rate and pick rate, then she had her current ban rate and pick rates before, so your statement is equivocally false.

AhristocatsAug 2, 20172 votes

i'm talking about -25 base hp which is huge in early 2v2 fights, i'm talking about -40 hp shield which is AGAIN HUGE considering she builds %bonus shielding power

those who upvote you should remain in bronze forever jesus

Akali is SO HOTAug 2, 20179 votes

The last Assassin meta was Season 3

Asayake 5150glowAug 2, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olnAIFnP,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-08-02T01:01:53.240+0000)

The last Assassin meta was Season 3

You mean the last assassin meta Akali took part in was season 3.

Lethalty made it a huge assassin meta, when it was OP.

Akali is SO HOTAug 2, 201710 votes

No that made ADCs that abused it overpowered. Even when Lethality was at it's prime, Assassins were still not doing that great. If you wanted to see overpowered back then you would've gone for Jhin, Lucian, and MF. There are a couple of Assassins that become good/overpowered sometimes, but they are quickly nerfed and not seen again.

If you look to pro play, the only champs being played are tanks, bruisers, mages, adcs, and supports. Very rarely you will see an Assassin being played. If an Assassin is being picked, then they are either overpowered or they are abusing an item build (Khazix and Rengar with Bruiser items for example) neither of which happened when Lethality was strong. If anything, lethality being strong just brings out more tanks because Lethality is so bad against them.

I don't know if you were around for Season 3, but if you want to see a real Assassin meta, then go back there when Akali was really strong and when Zed could delete you without his mark having to pop.

Asayake 5150glowAug 2, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olnAIFnP,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-08-02T01:23:44.083+0000)

No that made ADCs that abused it overpowered. Even when Lethality was at it's prime, Assassins were still not doing that great. If you wanted to see overpowered back then you would've gone for Jhin, Lucian, and MF. There are a couple of Assassins that become good/overpowered sometimes, but they are quickly nerfed and not seen again.

Um, I seem to remember Jayce, Quinn, and fucking every AD champion who could use Lethality abusing it...

If you look to pro play, the only champs being played are tanks, bruisers, mages, adcs, and supports. Very rarely you will see an Assassin being played. If an Assassin is being picked, then they are either overpowered or they are abusing an item build (Khazix and Rengar with Bruiser items for example) neither of which happened when Lethality was strong. If anything, lethality being strong just brings out more tanks because Lethality is so bad against them.

That's because having a melee carry just doesn't work in Pro... Master Yi and Yasuo have never been picked in pro either, with Fiora just being a pressure bot (who also built bruisery Fiora) and Riven rarely being picked (she was also built bruiser). Pro =/= meta. Otherwise there would never have been a meta where Yasuo was overpowered. Never.

I don't know if you were around for Season 3, but if you want to see a real Assassin meta, then go back there when Akali was really strong and when Zed could delete you without his mark having to pop.

I was, although I don't remember it :/

Akali is SO HOTAug 2, 20175 votes

Jayce isn't an Assassin and Quinn is a Marksman/Assassin abomination that abuses her range against melees top lane. Yasuo was overpowered a patch or two after his release when they buffed him for no reason and became p/b in pro play for a long time. The last time he was overpowered was when he had that bug. Pro play is generally indicative of what the meta is because it trickles down into Plat+

Rengar and Zed terrorizing bronze players doesn't count as an Assassin meta.

3TWarriorAug 2, 20171 votes

actually, if you build enough damage, jayce has enough damage to end a single enemy with all of his abilities, but cooldowns then work against him

it actually feels quite satisfying to do so when you get the chance, but it makes him squishy even with his higher than normal base stats

i'll list his stats and their totals and then you can add whatever AD you want

melee Q: 210 + 120% bonus AD ranged Q with E: 320 + 120% bonus AD ) X 1.4 melee W: up to 400 damage (100 dps for up to 4 seconds) melee E: 20% target's maximum health and 100% AD(not bonus)

it's not easy to pull off, but if you then factor in max attack speed at up to 260% AD with infinity edge and an auto attack reset, he can pull off about 3 auto attacks in a second (his W is an auto attack reset)

the hard part is getting to their carry but Q poke always works

if you add in his ultimate, it adds 140 + 25% bonus AD burst damage to his first hammer auto attack, which is easy with his Q

you then get the fun bonus that everything from his kit except his melee E is area of effect damage

Akali is SO HOTAug 2, 20173 votes

Being able to 100-0 a squishy doesn't automatically make you an Assassin. Jayce is a skirmisher. He's basically AD Xerath if you had to compare him to a champion tbh.

3TWarriorAug 3, 20171 votes

he's not really a skirmisher, assassin or fighter, or mage. He's a generalist or now called a Specialist

he can do whatever the player builds him for

dunder killAug 2, 20174 votes

Um, I seem to remember Jayce, Quinn, and fucking every AD champion who could use Lethality abusing it

You actually just agreed that it wasn't an Assassin meta. Good job

EedatAug 2, 20172 votes

You forgot Varus with his two thirds of your HP Qs

SalronAug 2, 20174 votes

Lulu being overpowered while there is also an assassin meta at the same time apparently isn't a possibility

:thinking:

Not like she got nerfs or anything XD

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 2, 20174 votes

lulu still has a 13.4% pick rate and a 9.3% ban rate

which is 4th for pick rate 3rd for ban rate among supports while having a 48.4% win rate which is only a 0.2% higher win rate then thresh

http://lolalytics.com/detailed/

Automated RivenAug 2, 20175 votes

This is gameplay boards. No logic belongs here.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 2, 20173 votes

oh im aware

deadlychuckAug 2, 20171 votes

Eh, she has the design which makes her a generalist, as a result of tons of mechanics stacked into the kit.

Even if her numbers are low enough that she doesn't have a very high win rate, it feels bad to play against a champion who has a tailor made answer for any situation you can put them in, even if it's insufficient to come out ahead of the situation.

It's similar to Yasuo, Lee Sin, Thresh, exc. Where they could have their numbers nerfed until they're at a lower win rate than ryze, and people would still probably hate them, because they're still designed in this manner.

Frustrating design + high play rate = Hate

Even if the win rate is sub-par.

One could argue that if the win rate goes down the play rate will go down, but despite what people like to claim, there really isn't much reason to think that people pick champions heavily based on win rate. After all, in the link you provided, of the top 10 win rate champions the 5 lowest pick rates combine is ~equal (0.4 less) to that of Lee Sin's, with only 1 overlapping position (support) . With Lee being the 11th lowest win rate of all champions (again from your link).

RexxieeAug 2, 20173 votes

She got nerfed, god some ppl are not very "bright"

dunder killAug 2, 20172 votes

V7.10 Stats Base health reduced to 525 from 552.76. Help, Pix! Shield strength reduced to 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 from 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240.

Nah must be because of the BS you pulled out of thin air

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 2, 20172 votes

and she is still 4th most pick and 3rd most banned support

CochoAug 2, 20171 votes

Assassins are still good though, probably better now because what killing a carry in a tank comp means

Automated RivenAug 2, 20171 votes

If assassin's that aren't named talon could actually do that with some sort of reliability then ya they would be good. Even Zed's damage takes way to long to register if you are playing vs a tank or a support that have any idea how to peel.

Asayake 5150glowAug 2, 20171 votes

I thought Duskblade made it an assassin meta again?

Also Lulu would be great against tanks. If I had to say (I don't know much about her), she'd be worst in a poke/mage meta, where half her spells don't have enough range while the others aren't nearly as useful.

ThairnAug 2, 20171 votes

But this is tank meta? >:o

SalronAug 2, 20173 votes

I'll have you know that the silver balancelords of gameplay are very knowledgeable as this is totally an assassin meta They told me so /s

AirKingNeoAug 2, 20171 votes

Technically assassin and tank metas happen at the same time because lethality on adcs leads to tanks being stronger as adcs can't go crit to late game on them.

Though this tank meta is different because ADCs are going little lethality and mages are uber meta.

EedatAug 2, 20171 votes

Hmmmmmm couldnt be because she was nerfed or anything

chipndip1Aug 2, 20171 votes

Nothing to do with smacking her jaw with the nerf hammer.

deadlychuckAug 2, 20171 votes

In terms of mechanical advantage, there are a few supports which are extremely overloaded.

The most notable being Thresh Lulu Nami TahmKench

Where they really just do everything pretty well due to the number of different mechanics they have shoved into their kits, rather than the simply the versatility of their tools.

Compared to a champion like Janna or Braum who really only have a few tools, but they're open ended enough to allow for skilled play to increase their range of use.