Thresh is perfectly balanced. I don't know what people are whining about.

DoctorFunguy·Nov 3, 2015·171 votes·9,076 views

His death sentence animation that doesn't show you which direction it is going to be thrown is a healthy mechanic. Having to gamble on which way to go to dodge it is fun and engaging.

I think it's great that we have a champion that can completely lockdown an enemy on his own, but at the same time can pull a caught ally to safety from almost any situation.

Also making someone with this modest amount of utility a ranged champion is an excellent example of good game design. Topping it off with a second passive that gives him decent poke is... um... lc$ bigplay$

198 Comments

DoctorFunguyNov 3, 201540 votes

Oh wow somebody downvoted me. I bet it was some guy who thinks that Thresh is actually an overkitted mess with way too much utility that remains un-nerfed solely because kids watching LCS hoot and holler when someone performs the incredibly skill-intensive process of right clicking lantern, and that anyone who defends his current state doesn't have two braincells to rub together.

Well mister downvoter you are completely incorrect and I look down upon you.

KONO RUBICK DANov 3, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Oh wow somebody downvoted me. I bet it was some guy who thinks that Thresh is actually an overkitted mess with way too much utility that remains un-nerfed solely because kids watching LCS hoot and holler when someone performs the incredibly skill-intensive process of right clicking lantern, and that anyone who defends his current state doesn't have two braincells to rub together.

Well mister downvoter you are completely incorrect and I look down upon you.

un nerfed? i invite you to read his patch history

BorblandNov 3, 201515 votes

Joke -------------------------- 3 light years ----------------------------- You

SmithneyNov 3, 201513 votes

Isn't that quite a pretentious attitude for somebody defending such a controversial opinion? No offence, but saying somebody is completely incorrect just from get-go won't make you many friends imho, regardless of how much do you believe you are right.

Honestly, I agree with you on the point of Hook being fair with its animation. However, the issue with Thresh is that he has always had high amounts of utility with low amount of drawbacks. For what he brings (ranged CC, gap closer, unique ally displacement, shield, safe vision, enemy displacement (which also effectively stops dashes), AoE slow), Thresh doesn't have many obvious drawbacks aside from the limited AA range and no sustain (which will hopefully be true again with the nerf to item 3302 ).

Thresh reminds me of Lee Sin: both have dangerous amounts of utility that make them hard to balance. Neither of them is currently OP, but both have the stigma of being broken enough to feel unfair when they are strong. They are both fun to play, but not so much to play against.

I GANK LANESNov 3, 20152 votes

what utility does lee have other than a small shield? lol

SmithneyNov 3, 20156 votes

Consindering the damage he can dish out early game, Lee Sin has also access to ranged poke*, gapcloser, reliable escape tool, AoE slow and a very powerful multi-CC ultimate. That's quite a lot of utility for such a powerful jungler such as Lee Sin, it makes him versatile enough to stay relevant even in lategame.

*SAGE: Yes, I do consider it ranged poke since it deals damage and is ranged, and therefore can be used to repeatedly chip down enemy health from safety. Just because it doesn't do Nidalee-spear-level damage doesn't mean it's not a poke.

FadedpfNov 3, 201540 votes

His Q hitbox is small and dodgeable, there is clearly counterplay to it. Its not like it magically magnetizes towards people. Just dodge it and he is USELESS.

TheLittlestLuluNov 3, 201589 votes

{quoted}

His Q hitbox is small and dodgeable, there is clearly counterplay to it. Its not like it magically magnetizes towards people. Just dodge it and he is USELESS.

http://i.imgur.com/rV9NDP2.png

FadedpfNov 3, 201535 votes

That is obviously a glitch, you know how worlds can be. http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/925/494/218.png_large

Vellich0rNov 3, 20153 votes

When lulu whimsies, the model moves forward slightly, but the hitbox remains in the same location. While yes, thresh hook does jump to champs similarly, and the hitbox is larger than the visual for thresh, that is more of a lulu whimsy clarity issue.

MysticFlameHazeNov 3, 20153 votes

Uh if you read shadow and fortune you'd know thresh can throw up to 5 hooks at a time, duh

Synx7Nov 3, 20156 votes

{quoted}

His Q hitbox is small and dodgeable, there is clearly counterplay to it. Its not like it magically magnetizes towards people. Just dodge it and he is USELESS.

Tresh main confirmed. Please piss off

Meep ManNov 3, 201525 votes

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/2386293-the_joke_your_head_3-(n1292804669453).jpg

KieferrNov 3, 201515 votes

Wow here I thought I was reading rational discussion, but instead, as with the typical forum sheep you spew out your toxic sarcasm and produce nothing of interest.

BattleOxeNov 3, 20159 votes

Well, only thing that is nearly as strong as lantern is Tham Kench's W

Sèx Craved EveNov 3, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Well, only thing that is nearly as strong as lantern is Tham Kench's W

Khalista R

BattleOxeNov 3, 201514 votes

Maybe, but it is ultimate, you know, and has much more CD

NegusInParisNov 3, 20152 votes

Yeah but atleast Tahm Kench has to Walk up to his ally, putting himself in danger at the same time.

Cloud PotatoNov 3, 20159 votes

Top tier disengage with the possibility of engaging at extremely long ranges as well as guaranteed damage + CC at a decent range makes Thresh a bastard to fight at every range. His only legitimate weakness is that he can be outstatted by stronger champions with less counterplay than him. And unless you eat all of his damage first, you need to respect him at all times.

Also, while not particularly relevant, he is competent in every lane as well as the Jungle, and he can build AD, AP, Tank, or nothing (Support).

KaisadiIIaNov 3, 20151 votes

AP Thresh is sh*t tier.

Cloud PotatoNov 4, 20152 votes

It's basically just Liandry's + E's passive making you deal decent magic damage. AD is generally better but AP gets to buy better items for offense/defense, which is good when you tend to engage on people's faces. Plus you get Zhonya's.

IAMS4T4NNov 3, 20158 votes

thresh's only weakness is not having an escape for himself and not having something like a leona w, braum w/e he's pretty much good at everything else

kJsNov 3, 201510 votes

Well a well placed E and an R fixes a lot of that. A lot of resource I know but he's not exactly easy to catch as a Leona or Braum when he can hook people mid dash and Flay them back mid-dash.

AbyssphereNov 3, 20155 votes

{quoted}

thresh's only weakness is not having an escape for himself and not having something like a leona w, braum w/e he's pretty much good at everything else

You've never seen a Thresh hook a jungle monster over a wall, have you?

IAMS4T4NNov 3, 20158 votes

{quoted}

You've never seen a Thresh hook a jungle monster over a wall, have you?

can we at least pretend thresh has some sort of weakness

KaisadiIIaNov 3, 20154 votes

Until he Qs a jungle monster and dashes to it.

GunpointNov 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

thresh's only weakness is not having an escape for himself and not having something like a leona w, braum w/e he's pretty much good at everything else

Beg to differ, Thresh's Death Sentence can be used to escape with enemy minions and jungle camps.

ihaveapotionNov 3, 20157 votes

This thread shouldnt even exist.

manbearswineNov 3, 20156 votes

{quoted}

His death sentence animation that doesn't show you which direction it is going to be thrown is a healthy mechanic. Having to gamble on which way to go to dodge it is fun and engaging.

It simply means that it's more of an offensive ability than defensive,usual line skillshots are easier to dodge at large ranges but harder close up,this one is supposed(compared to usual line skillshots) to be easier to dodge at close range and harder to dodge at longer range.

I think it's great that we have a champion that can completely lockdown an enemy on his own, but at the same time can pull a caught ally to safety from almost any situation.

The problem is that if you put it on a defensive support like janna or soraka they will sit back and throw it if something happens,I definitely agree it does not belong on a tank however.

Also making someone with this modest amount of utility a ranged champion is an excellent example of good game design. Topping it off with a second passive that gives him decent poke is... um... lc$ bigplay$

It was made that way because back then tank support couldn't handle ranged ones(such problems were later solved by "if x champs dominate,and y champs can't handle them,we will just stop releasing y champs and only release x champs"-hence why bard didn't work out too well(even though he was given a stupid amount of mobility for a support,which I can guarantee will come back to hunt us later) and we got kench and braum),but yeah,no reason for him to keep it.

Yes thresh is overpowered,we all know it,only idiots deny it,if you love hooks so much why not play blitz? His hook is better,if you love peeling so much why not play janna? She is better at that,if you love saving allies,why not playing soraka? she is better at that. No,people want it all,that's why they play thresh,strictly because he is overpowered.

WyrmbladeNov 3, 20156 votes

I've had people tell me lantern has counterplay lmao.

ahferroin7Nov 3, 20152 votes

Except it does, you trick the wrong person into taking the lantern, or you stun the person before they take it, or you bait it out and then go after your target, or you could just kill Thresh before he uses it.

SzunrayNov 3, 20158 votes

Or you can literally stand on top of the lantern with a big champion or multiple champions.

The EcdysiastNov 3, 20156 votes

The problem isn't that Thresh is too strong.

It's that Any other champion with that lockdown ability can't pull allies to safety, so he has no counter. Maybe if ranked were actually about skill, and not who got to tpick champion X first, we'd get to do mirror lanes.

ARequestOfDeathNov 3, 20155 votes

he does actually have a few counters like Braum Leona Morgana . but no one listens to me because i am bronze.

The EcdysiastNov 3, 20152 votes

They aren't counters.

I'm saying that with the complete impossibility of a mirror match in Draft pick, you have no way to have that ally-saving mechanic that the Lantern does if the enemy picks Thresh before you.

The only champion that comes close to that is Tahm Kench.

The Taco KatNov 3, 20152 votes

Braum deletes Thresh lantern with his wall if timed correctly. Morgana is only if you are REALLY good with Morgana. Leona is more or less skill matchup. His counters aren't too plentiful, it's more or less how well can you bait stuff.

I personally have never seen Thresh as a toxic champion, but others do and they are entitled to their own opinion(s). It may be bias since I used to play him, but I've never gotten too overly upset about any lantern saves/plays.

The Voids CallNov 4, 20152 votes

which is a good point, because thresh has been such a power house for so long, he set the standard for support power. Tahm is stupidly OP, just because riot attempted to put him on part with his support counterpart.

Just think thresh's utility is so high, that in order to match it with stats. Riot had to give a passive which is 3-4 times better than shen passive, double his potential health, 20-44% poke resistance, and 20-32% max HP damage. Then after all that is said and done, he still has a TF teleport, a slow/stun, and a ally untargetable.

LuggNov 3, 20156 votes

{quoted}

modest amount of utility

Modest!? Thresh probably has the most utility of any support or champ in the game. Every one of his abilities can be used offensively or defensively. EVERY pro support player in the world has Thresh as one of their most played champions. This isn't a coincidence, Thresh is super strong, to say otherwise is just laughable.

LightKnight9Nov 3, 20154 votes

Gold 1 Thresh main here.

Thresh is amongst the hardest supports to master. If you have high skill cap you should have high reward (i.e. lee sin). I don't think his kit has to change (not one bit), but** seeing the impact other supports had in worlds** such as alistar/tahm kench and morgana it is fair to assume he doesn't stand in a good position at the moment, but that is easily fixed. Same goes for bard, who in my opinion is the hardest to master of all supports. Every match up with Thresh should be a skill match up due to his kit, but some supports make it feel like it's not worth try-harding to predict movement when you can have better results with less risk, playing point click champions (janna/annie/alistar).

The only match up I have a problem with is Tahm Kench, I believe that devour's cooldown should be much higher in order for him to really value it's use, but if that nerf applies a buff in his rest kit should be applied simultaneously (like w's cooldown reduces by 1 sec each time you autoattack an enemy) to compensate. Won't affect his laning a lot but will open some windows for counter play in teamfights.

For alistar the only thing that bothers me a bit is that 70% damage reduction from ult at level 6. I believe it would be better if it was a bit less and scaled like 60%/65%/70% not much difference but it won't be picked like 70% of games (referring to worlds, stats are from what I remember not entirely accurate).

If these passive supports are tuned maybe we will, at last start seeing some action in bot lane. Teams will start considering bot lane snowball as a viable option resulting to more in game diversity which is what RIOT likes :3.

P.S. no toxic replies, think before you argue, validate your arguments with reasoning.

Ulquiorra995Nov 3, 20155 votes

Fist of all, this is coming from someone who plays Thresh since release: he was and still is insanely fun to play and I don't mind playing him myself from time to time. While I agree that if you have high skill cap you should have reward - but not too high of a reward. To put it simply, likes of Thresh and Lee when mastered are a world of frustration to play against since they have all of the strengths their role would want with none of the weaknesses. "High skill cap" isn't an excuse to give a champion a tool for every situation they might find themselves into. You mentioned Bard as another high skillcap champion - and he's a perfect example that a high-skill champion can feel fair to play against. Literally everything Bard has can be played around. You can avoid his stun by good positioning. You can stomp out his shrines unless they are under turret. You can utilise his portals even if he's on another team. His ult has a delay and a warning. He is strong when mastered - but fair, unlike Thresh. It never feels that you get outplayed when loosing against Thresh; I simply feel that you get outkitted.

And a huge problem with Thresh is his pick rate. It's just not too high; it is out of control. Out of 25 support champions, Thresh is picked almost 40% of the time - that means that, in 2 out of 5 games, you will play with or against a Thresh. Combined with his lack of weakness and the fact that you HAVE to face him so often, he gets really frustrating really fast. Balanced or not, at this point he is very bad for variety and, be honest here - can you tell that someone gets picked that often simply because he's fun to play and not because his kit gives you a clear edge over your opponent.

Yes, I'd rather face Thresh than Tahm. But for every game I play against Tahm I will play 4 or 5 against Thresh. For every game I play against, say, Janna or Leona, I will play 3 games against a Thresh. I don't want Thresh ruined; I just want him brought down to the point where he

Wînter FoxNov 3, 20154 votes

{quoted} Also making someone with this modest amount of utility a ranged champion is an excellent example of good game design.

Seriously, this is bothers me the most. Why the hell does a tanky, heavy CC support have a ranged AA?? That's the dumbest idea ever. Where the hell are Taric's/Leona's/Alistar's ranged autos? That's like giving a melee champ like Riven a ranged execute or something. Could you just imagine the huge flood of tears on the forums...

O wait

RocketRelmNov 3, 20154 votes

To be fair, the change of the LW to "Bonus Armor" instead of "Base Armor" pen, puts him at a significantly worse position cause all but like, 18 or so of his armor is "bonus". So I suppose these changes are a stealth nerf to him relative to everything else.

Sleve McDichaelNov 3, 20153 votes

If he is OP, I wonder why his win rate is sub 50%. His skillshots are not easy to land. The windup on Q is long and makes prediction very difficult. Flay can be difficult to land quickly due to the fact that you will be clicking forward to move, and you need to move the cursor behind you to make the play. His lantern is not strictly better than Kench W. Kench can pull you from hard CC (obviously Thresh cannot), while Thresh can pull you from a range. Thresh's ult is not great, it's just ok.

Ulquiorra995Nov 3, 20153 votes

If he is not OP, I wonder why is his pick rate is near 40%? Is he a.) so absurdly fun to play that he sees more games than 60% of support roster combined simply because of fun factor or b.) his kit maybe gives you a clear edge over your opponent and people obviously like winning? Take your pick!

And while you mentioned Kench, I'd still rather play against Thresh than Kench. But the difference is that, according to raw statistics, for every game against Kench I'll play 4 or 5 against Thresh. Yay, variety!

Actually xPekeNov 3, 20152 votes

lol because winrates say everything? just because his winrate might be low doesn't mean he has no unhealthy mechanics. Thresh his E? difficult to land? omfg haha i'm done. you Q, dash to them and press E. it's a 100% guaranteed E unless they dash/flash out.

Sleve McDichaelNov 3, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Actually xPeke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kKVR6Rpu,comment-id=000c0002,timestamp=2015-11-03T19:36:05.943+0000)

lol because winrates say everything? just because his winrate might be low doesn't mean he has no unhealthy mechanics. Thresh his E? difficult to land? omfg haha i'm done. you Q, dash to them and press E. it's a 100% guaranteed E unless they dash/flash out.

E has many more uses than Q follow-up. In fact, you're more likely to land your Q to lock people down if you walk up and E them first. It's not the hardest thing to land, agreed. The only time it's particularly difficult is if you flash forward and then flay backwards.

Mestm97Nov 3, 20153 votes

Dont forget that his W count as terrenian, so he CAN stop Sion's ultimate, and im sure there are some other things he can do with that unecessary power

Athenes LuluNov 3, 20153 votes

If he actually has weaknesses and his Q hitbox fixed, then I'll consider him "balanced".

Strong engage + just as powerful, "safe" disengage + ranged (so he's not that prone to poking) = more like overloaded. His only weakness is plain ol' disengage, which is something ALL tank supports have as disengage so what's so special about that?

He is immune to nerfs mainly because of "high skillcap" and how everything is stuffed into a single champion, therefore making him very overloaded. Why would anyone want to pick anyone else when Thresh is "one support fits all", that's not good design.

Yes, he has counterplay, yes, he can be outplayed, but overshadowing a lot of existing supports doesn't necessarily make him balanced.