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Is it just me, or are all of the new releases/reworks amazing?

SteelMankind··74 votes·3,946 views

Nearly all of the champions I play have either been released or heavily reworked in the last 2-3 years. I main Ekko and Aurelion Sol because I love how unique they are, how rewarding it feels to improve on them, and how themeatically cohesive they are (Ekko is a timebending assassin who blinks around the battlefield dodging skillshots and dealing massive burst damage, Aurelion is this cosmic entitity that has some serious sustained AOE damage and comet-esque roams). I love how, with their relatively complicated abilities, they trade reliable combat patterns for adaptability.

What do I mean by that? I mean that, by virtue of having paragraph-long ability descriptions (shouldn't be a problem if reading comprehension > 5th grader's), champions like Yasuo, Kindred, and Taliyah give up a straightforward win condition in fights (as in, just use all your abilities and dodge as much as you can) and gain the ability to perform well in unexpected situations/suceed where other members of their respective classes fail (due to their unique abilities, not damage/tankiness numbers).

For example, Zed has to use his W and Ult shadow to dodge skillshots, close gaps, deal damage, and escape, despite only being able to use them to swap places once each. Thats like killing four birds with two stones. Full crit Xin Zhao (hyperbole, I know, but it applies in a lesser extent to many older champs) doesnt need to worry about anything other than getting in E range, since he doesn't have the tools to. Zed does - he doesn't have the insane combat stats of Xin. In this way, Zed's kit trades reliable combat for situational outplay tools, and this design choice is interesting, fun, and healthy.

That's not to say that the recent releases and reworks have been well balanced, as that's a seperate issue entirely and is mostly solveable by tweaking numbers. All I'm saying is that Riot's designs for new champs and reworks over the past two or so years has been spot on, and I hope they continue this trend.

EDIT: Ekko, Rakan, and Aurelion main

132 Comments

Asayake 5150glow22 votes

Ekko has an extremely reliably combat pattern LMAO

E+Q+auto, W first if needed.

He's not new, either.

I was also about to disagree with Galio as the example, but then I read the bottom paragraph.

Why Galio is overpowered/too strong:

His E hitbox is humongous and almost impossible for your average immobile bruiser to dodge (most bruiser's mobility is a targeted dash which they wanna use on an enemy champion, so that doesn't help them at all in this case).

His Q damage is fucking insane, with 100% AP scaling, 300 base damage, and 9% max health.

His Q is fucking huge, with very large AoE covering a large portion of the lane, the DoT is very large and you can't simply 'walk out of it' most of the times.

His Q cd is (fucking) nonexistent. If you go in on him right as he misses a Q, he'll tank your hits for a bit, then hit you with a point blank E into another Q, which you are forced to stand in because of his knock up + taunt.

His passive gives him a lot of unavoidable damage. A little too much, in fact. Seems strange how a tank should have a fully waveclear + damage oriented passive. Not a juggernaut - a tank. He doesn't kill you without landing his Q, but he hurts just a little more than he should with just his E+passive hits + Iceborn.

SteelMankind9 votes

Seems like you didn't actually read the bottom paragraph, because your Galio qualms are all about his numbers, which can easily be changed if they are actually problems :P

And about Ekko - the E + Q is pretty reliable, but its the only part of his kit that is. The rest of it (passive, second part of Q, W stun/shield, ult) are all highly telegraphed.

Asayake 5150glow7 votes

{quoted}

Seems like you didn't actually read the bottom paragraph, because your Galio qualms are all about his numbers, which can easily be changed if they are actually problems :P

And about Ekko - the E + Q is pretty reliable, but its the only part of his kit that is. The rest of it (passive, second part of Q, W stun/shield, ult) are all highly telegraphed.

I did, but just because only his numbers need changing doesn't mean he isn't overpowered.

The one change that isn't numbers is his E hitbox, though, and that's the worst part, because it lets him land his Q so easily.

SteelMankind6 votes

Thats still just a number change (though hitxbox changes are kinda bad taste since it effects how the champ feels). Riot has done it before though with LeBlanc, Lux, Fizz, and Nidalee, and probably more that I just don't know of.

An example of a change thats not numbers-based would be letting him target himself for ulting, or letting hard CC cancel his taunt channel.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

{quoted}

Thats still just a number change (though hitxbox changes are kinda bad taste since it effects how the champ feels). Riot has done it before though with LeBlanc, Lux, Fizz, and Nidalee, and probably more that I just don't know of.

An example of a change thats not numbers-based would be letting him target himself for ulting, or letting hard CC cancel his taunt channel.

Yeah... but... meh. He feels like Gragas but with a bigger hitbox.

WiccanBKaplan3 votes

But just like Gragas, anyone with basic motor functions can dodge that shit. (It's got a windup animation blatant as the sun) You would also have to be an idiot to stand in Galio's Q for longer than 2 sec.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

and Nidalee

To be fair, Nid's spear used to be about 4-5 Teemos wide. Despite the visual indication being exactly the same as it is now.

Ben Sharpio20 votes

yeah all of the assassin reworks were SPOT ON DOOD and also, ryze rework was amazing as well! Camille? beautiful stuff also :D

SteelMankind8 votes

Assassin reworks lowered burst time and granted extra mobility/escapes - whats not to like about that?

Ryze players now have to choose between the highest DPS combo, the combo which gets them a shield/best CC, and the combo which gives AOE. Also, non-combat ults are always great.

Camille has that narrow 1.5s window of the true damage auto with the option to forgoe it for a quicker auto reset, and significantly drops DPS for using W, so there's some decision making there.

Hunted90002 votes

See:Talon

Wyrmblade18 votes

I'm really tired of the "stop releasing new champions" circlejerk going on. The worst part is that if riot follows it it will hugely reduce the quality and replayability of the game.

Melvear13 votes

{quoted}

I'm really tired of the "stop releasing new champions" circlejerk going on. The worst part is that if riot follows it it will hugely reduce the quality and replayability of the game.

You'd have a hard time finding replayability with ~140 champions?

Linna Excel11 votes

New champs will always be required to shake up the meta. They also bring new people into the game and excite older players.

People forget that discovery is an important part of a game.

Bladerunner77776 votes

The community doesn't know what it wants.

What's new?

THE RlVER KlNG14 votes

I'm just over here playing Tahm and Illaoi and the occasional Galio without really caring about other new champions/reworks

Although I have to say THIS:

{quoted}

I love how, with their relatively complicated abilities, they trade reliable combat patterns for adaptability.

What do I mean by that? I mean that, by virtue of having paragraph-long ability descriptions (shouldn't be a problem if reading comprehension > 5th grader's), champions like Yasuo, Kindred, and Taliyah give up a straightforward win condition in fights (as in, just use all your abilities and dodge as much as you can) and gain the ability to perform well in unexpected situations/suceed where other members of their respective classes fail (due to their unique abilities, not damage/tankiness numbers).

For example, Zed has to use his W and Ult shadow to dodge skillshots, close gaps, deal damage, and escape, despite only being able to use them to swap places once each. Thats like killing four birds with two stones.

is fucking bullshit LMAO. Overloaded and complicated champions nearly always have straightforward win conditions. Click-to-win nuclear missile champions like XIn Zhao and Annie are as stupid as they are reliable, but they also don't remove agency from you or have the ability to come out on top in any number of situations that is out of their control and in which they shouldn't in the way that Yasuo, Zed, Camille, and such can.

SteelMankind4 votes

but they also don't remove agency from you

Theoretically, if you were playing a "modern" champ in a 1v1/teamfight involving other "modern champs", net agency loss = 0 for everyone because all players have nifty unique outplay tools. :P not saying League is there yet, but it could move in that direction if Riot continues the trend thry've shown with new releases and reworks.

or have the ability to come out on top in any number of situations that is out of their control and in which they shouldn't in the way that Yasuo, Zed, Camille, and such can.

Thats only true when comparing to outdated s1 divers/skirmishers. If every offensive melee had nuanced abilities, then there would be no situation where the straightforward old champion feels outclassed by the newer more complex champ.

THE RlVER KlNG8 votes

Theoretically, if you were playing a "modern" champ in a 1v1/teamfight involving other "older champs", net agency loss = >1 for everyone because one player has nifty unique outplay tools. :P

Riot moves so slowly to update outdated and non-flashy champions that there will always be those that simply do the job better, with more tools, and look better doing it.

Complexity and overloadedness does not in the slightest equal health. In fact, the opposite is nearly universally the norm.

Thilmer7 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olYxF8q3,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2017-04-04T01:53:45.375+0000)

Complexity and overloadedness does not in the slightest equal health. In fact, the opposite is nearly universally the norm.

I love how the OP says "adaptibility" meaning "fucking broken because it has 10 different effects in every skill". XDXDXD

Hilarious.

Sexy Jack Rabbit11 votes

Generally I feel like a lot of New Release champions have followed a trend. Either they are stupid busted upon release, or this really weird niche where no one plays them.

I don't think all of the New Releases have been AMAZING, but some have been pretty cool. Save for a few, Warwick was one of the best reworks we've gotten ever besides Sion, and I thought Camille was really cool THEMATICALLY.

Otherwise not much has really changed in regards to champion releases, personally my favorite year for releases was probably season 5. Season 6 was just a clusterfuck of Forgettable champions save for Jhin

GelsominoKiller3 votes

Let's be honest here: busted upon relase isnt exactly a new thing.

I think that Camille problems are mainly caused by throwing in the kit a lot of unnedeed stuff without a real reason. (Attack speed on E, heal on W, true damages, the ultimate lasting even if she's dead etc)

I think that with some changes, she can work out fine as an healthy champion.

Kalista, on the other hand, is unsalvageavle without major kit changes.

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

Well Kalista was an example of an extremely broken champion upon release.

The same as Camille, Kalista had A LOT of unneeded Content in her kit upon release, and has had a lot of stuff removed since then (Azir even more so).

In the case of Camille's kit being more salvageable, whilst you can adjust her numbers, it seems the simply removing mechanics seem to be the direction the balancing team wants to go in.

GelsominoKiller1 votes

I did not explain myself well enough, i apologise.

I belive that Camille's kit indeed needs trimming on some of her mechanics. The fact is that most of them are generic steroid that don't impair the "core" of the champion, her uniqueness, her niche, her playstyle. In this sense her kit is more salvageable than Kalista's.

Kalista issues are many, but the most glaring is how unbeliveavly toxic her passive is. Her passive is simultaneously slow immunity, supreme kiting and skillshot defence. Play Shyvana against her and tell me if you don't feel miserable. Having so much power packed here should have serious tradeoffs, yet she is one on the most CC-heavy marksman. She's not SUPPOSED to have CC in the first place. In order to balance her around that passive, all forms of CC must inevitably go away, but this implies removing her ultimate, which is a fundamental part of the champion.

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

What you're getting at is just that Kalista is a lot more unbalanced then Camille, which yeah is true. Her Passive basically makes her unbalanceable by all degree's. I think it would be cool if Kalista could ONLY kite for a short period. Q would be a small hop like it is now, and when you press E she gains the temporary ability to hop, which is then ended when you Rend the opponent.

In regards to Kalista being CC-heavy I disagree. Kalista is impeded by both Attack Speed slows AND Movement speed slows a lot more then every other marksman, as an Attack Speed slow also impedes her of her mobility. The only CC she has is in her Rend, and her ultimate knock-up, which is heavily gated by access to her support. Caitlyn on the other hand has a spammable snare, and Slow on basic abilities. Jinx has a 3 man snare and a powerful Slow and Jhin has a snare and slow on basic abilities. I think it is just general consensus that Marksman contain some sort of CC, or just pure damage. Kalista falls into the former category.

I agree with you that Yes, a champion being Broken upon release is nothing new, but champions never used to follow this continuous trend. I haven't seen Taliyah AurelionSol Kled or even Ivern in any of my last 20 games. But I've seen Jhin in about 25% of them. Heck I even see Illaoi TahmKench and Ekko in quite a few games now and then. It seems that as new champions are released, they simple become this MASSIVE staple in all of our games, or like illusive fairies you see once in a Kled Main.

I'm hoping the release of Xayan and Rakan or whatever their names are, we'll see an end to it, because tbh they seem pretty promising.

dEAdbUs11 votes

No? Some people like simple generic champions. Champions which can do everything are insanely boring. This one is with dash, that one too, both with cc, ahhh what to choose.

And I want to play a game right now, not learn champion for 30 next games. "Play champion not game" thing sucks.

Papa Andrei2 votes

Then go play something like bloody Minecraft, where you don't gotta learn multiple things and only learn the game. If you want to play a fucking MOBA, or any RPG with CLASSES, you need to learn THE CLASSES. Arcane fucking wizard Ryze You gotta learn that shit.

dEAdbUs2 votes

I've played Eye of Beholder on my XT PC and Magic Goody on friend's PCs without hdd - operation system and game were loaded in his RAM. I couldn't play first Civilisation, because game was bigger than my XT's hard drive. Now can you please do not tell me about rpg, moba or any other games, because I've seen how they appeared? Table DnD, Ultima Online, Dune 2. Did you play them? If not then why are you talking like you know games better than other people? I know what I want and what is good, and what is not, and I can decide myself.

If you like champions with billion button to be pressed just to stun someone - this is your right. I personally prefer champions who can stun enemy after just one button. Wanna show skill and reaction - go play Tohou, or Super meat boy, or I wanna be the boshy (faker loves this one btw).

Papa Andrei3 votes

Your entire first paragraph is a bunch of gibberish that has zero relation to my point.

So you want to learn a champion, but only if they require zero thought process and are instant gratification? Why didn't you say so in the first place?

dEAdbUs2 votes

Your point is about exaggerating. I said I don't like "play champion not game" concept. But you started to talk about "zero thought" process.

Go play "Boshy" and relax.

ModCaptainMårvelous6 votes

Camille is pretty damn generic.

Sure, it SEEMS like she has a lot of moving parts but her actual playstyle isn't exactly super hard. Partially why she was so strong on release: Very simple. Overtuned. Easy-to-pick-up.

Thilmer1 votes

{quoted}

No? Some people like simple generic champions. Champions which can do everything are insanely boring. This one is with dash, that one too, both with cc, ahhh what to choose.

And I want to play a game right now, not learn champion for 30 next games. "Play champion not game" thing sucks.

I find most new champions unplayable for this reason. I would need to play 50 games with Taliyah-Aurelion-Bard-Ivern just to learn the mechanics. Nobody has time for that.

The only "new" champion I'm playing is Kled

dEAdbUs2 votes

That's what I meant :)

Ahristocats10 votes

camille is sure amazing ivern is sure amazing leblanc rework is sure amazing

we don't need LCS to show us how broken those 3 are

leblanc got gutted and now sitting at 44% win rate, she had one of the worst rework ever that cornered her around a no counterplay chain. Basically if you got hit you died, "but riot why aren't you reducing the leash range?" "that would make her not be a kiting mage"-fizz enthousiast

Camille is going to be nerfed again, and then will rot in oblivion for a year. Her kit is cancer so it doesn't matter, she's irelia with j4 ult

Ivern... Ivern lul, the dude sitting at 58% win rate, preventing melees from moving, can counterjungle without you able to do anything about it, and has a busted low cd shield

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=gH god,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=olYxF8q3,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-04-03T21:39:17.870+0000)

camille is sure amazing ivern is sure amazing leblanc rework is sure amazing

we don't need LCS to show us how broken those 3 are

leblanc got gutted and now sitting at 44% win rate, she had one of the worst rework ever that cornered her around a no counterplay chain. Basically if you got hit you died, "but riot why aren't you reducing the leash range?" "that would make her not be a kiting mage"-fizz enthousiast

Camille is going to be nerfed again, and then will rot in oblivion for a year. Her kit is cancer so it doesn't matter, she's irelia with j4 ult

Ivern... Ivern lul, the dude sitting at 58% win rate, preventing melees from moving, can counterjungle without you able to do anything about it, and has a busted low cd shield

Change the fucking ult, the rest of her kit is fine. Make it not let teammates in and do a Veigar stun to any enemies who try entering, so it isn't broken in competitive, still useful in lane/1v1, and doesn't troll her own team in teamfights, and more useful in 1v2+.

SlaktarTasken1 votes

I find her ability to cross ~1/6 of the map in the blink of an eye on a basic ability considerably more disturbing than anything else in her kit.

WiccanBKaplan3 votes

Remember that its an ability that can be used Offensively (Going in for that stun) or Defensively (Getting out of range or Gtfo'ing) with a considerable cooldown. Unlike Talon which can hop all terrain with no cooldown on use, just a cooldown on the wall itself (which makes his decisions important). Talon has more mobility in one ability with no cooldown than Camille does on her hookshot which has one.

Mordepool7 votes

I guess the Amazingly short-sighted Mordekaiser Rework falls into the exception of your Nearly all Reworks& Releases?

SteelMankind3 votes

I was on board with the original idea of the rework (bot lane Morde who gets dragon ghost to do ranged ADC things). Kinda wish Riot tried a bit harder to buff/nerf the right things to make Morde bot a good pick rather than slipping back to solo lane Morde.

tXQbsPrjN56 votes

amazingly broken

chipndip16 votes

Not all heroes wear capes.

Some post on the LoL forums.

Papa Andrei6 votes

Wrong time to post this, you forget, this weeks circlejerk of idiots is people nonstop posting about how they hate everything Riot has done within 3 years, and should be crucified.

RenownedWheat425 votes

I have enjoyed every single one. Right there with you OP.

PePsiLemoNN3 votes

Amazingly overloaded usually

rtbf2256182413 votes

Reworks? Maybe. Yorick is still rare and Kindred / Aurelion are rarely picked aswell.

Plus Ekko and some of the Class updates have been nightmarish.

That's not to say that the recent releases and reworks have been well balanced

In what world was Camille balanced?

SUPERMOVA3 votes

who the fuck upvotes this shit lmao yes camille was so fucking "amazing" AHAHAHA

Big Lincoln2 votes

no, taric rework angers me to this day

nanogibbon5 votes

I have genuine pity for you. It brings me serious joy. Amazing situational power, and nailed the character's feel IMO.

AfterTheFall2 votes

Its just you. The vast majority of reworks over the past 2yrs have mostly been seen as failures, if not epic failures. Not to mention at least 50% of the new champs released in that time have been nothing but balancing nightmares....a few of them Riot has admitted need to be re-worked (aurelion sol, kalista) for example. They are new champs, they shouldnt need reworks. It is asinine that a champion needs to be reworked before they've even been out for 1 year. There have only been a select few reworks that have been a success in that time.

Scary Door2 votes

It's just you.

Camile - Horrificly unbalanced on release, had to be hotfixed then nerfed into oblivion.

Aurelion Sol - I don't know what's so "amazing" about him. Very binary and dull playstyle... no real depth, nothing overly challenging about playing him or playing against him.

Taliyah - neat concept, but Riot changed her W for some silly reason, then made her jungling not really viable and she's easily out classed by most mids. Personally I do like Taliyah, but there's really no reason to play her.

Yorick Rework - Nah. It didn't increase his playrate all that much (except immediately after release), Nothing special there.

I could easily go on, but you get the idea. It is just you.

SteelMankind1 votes

Guess we just have different definitions of success, then.

I thought Camille was good because she was a fighter champion who had clear windows of strengths/weaknesses, rather than always having high DPS and the win condition being get in melee range. Pausing from autoattacking to W is an interesting decision, and personally I find the hookshots really cool.

I literally don't care at all that she was super OP on release, and I don't care now that she's nerfed and really weak - I see that as distinctly seperate from good/bad design, and just a reality of a game with as many variables as League. Every champion has some time to be OP, and some time to be weak; it's inevitable.

You're free to dislike Sol, but I really like how great he is at roaming. He interacts with the other 9 players in the game so much more than most midlaners, as you can basically go anywhere on the map every minute or so, and move around really fast out of combat even when E is on CD. I also like laying down serious AOE magic DPS lategame in teamfights, and his ult has a super cool name (Voice of Light). Once again, personal opinion - the depth in him isn't so much in combat as it is in pressure, but it's there.

I also wish Riot didn't change her W. Oh well. There is still a reason to play her, though, as she's still good at roaming, and a full Q does a hefty amount of damage for a 3 sec cd.

Yorick rework is so much better than before lol. Who cares that no one plays him; new Yorick has some pretty interesting and unique abilities. Back to my first point, he'll see play when buffs/nerfs put him in a strong spot.

Scary Door2 votes

I literally don't care at all that she was super OP on release, and I don't care now that she's nerfed and really weak - I see that as distinctly seperate from good/bad design,

Say what? Part of the design process is how they interact in lane, team fights and their overall power. You're saying that just because she seems cool thematically excuses her blatantly poor tuning.

It's like saying "I really like the design of the DeLorean" - Sure, everyone does because of the movie Back to the Future, but in reality they were slow, had a weird stainless steel body, were almost as expensive as a corvette, the doors broke easily and the interior was ugly. But using your logic you would say "I don't care about the fact that they're expensive, inefficient and unsafe, they look cool" - well, I guess that's where we differ.

I play this game for the PVP, I don't care about lore (If I want stories, I'll read a book by real authors), champ design (per se) or anything other than their numbers, how they fight and interact and their viability. If suddenly tomorrow they made Akali the new Irelia and Irelia the new Akali and swappe their abilities I wouldn't care so long as one of them did what Irelia does now ... and so forth. To me, design is about balance, period. If it ain't balanced then it's not well designed.

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