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How are people still complaining about Lee Sin?

Jefftiffy··4 votes·361 views

They nerfed his 2 items he used to rush: item 3074 and item 1408. Tiamat doesn't power spike him as hard anymore (thanks to the AD rework) and Warrior no longer gives him armor pen. So now he has his power spike behind about 1500 more gold and an item he built was made less optimal. Sure there is Thunderlords every single game, but everyone is using it. So it isn't a Lee problem. Lee got nerfed this season like it or not. Whether you choose to acknowledge that proves how much you don't understand this game and are here just to complain and not fix the problems.

The only thing I have ever thought Lee needed was to have his Q made like Thresh Q where hitting it rewards the player more but the CD is higher. This gives a bigger window against Lee, but that is all that is needed. It's literally a bigger window between Qs. And having played Lee so much, I don't even feel like the window is that small right now. Maybe later in the game when he has a item 3071, but in the early game he has huge windows of weakness that can be abused. I mean I don't always play him, but I got pretty good with him and decided to play off meta instead. Play him and learn his windows, then he is so much easier to play against.

10 Comments

Koldheartedjsp4 votes

Cus they're godawful at the game and don't want to admit it. They'd rather qq about a champion that has been nerfed time and time again because it's better than admitting that they just can't play this game at a level above beginner bots.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

"Nerfed time and time again"

He's also been buffed time and time again.

Following the patch in which he was released, in which he got a few justified nerfs (and some buffs), like Safeguard not restoring energy when breaking, several nerfs were reverted (including the bugfix that made Lee unable to ward jump), he's been nerfed three times (but got a buff in one of those patches). The nerfs were to Safeguard's duration (which was nerfed twice), Iron Will's duration, the removal of the AS slow from Cripple, and a reduction of his base armor and health regen.

Let's not forget the Season 6 Lee buffs.

Lee Sin is also the only champion that has actually had nerfs reverted.

TheDevice1 votes

Lee Sin is also the only champion that has actually had nerfs reverted.

Jefftiffy2 votes

{quoted}

"Nerfed time and time again"

He's also been buffed time and time again.

Following the patch in which he was released, in which he got a few justified nerfs (and some buffs), like Safeguard not restoring energy when breaking, several nerfs were reverted (including the bugfix that made Lee unable to ward jump), he's been nerfed three times (but got a buff in one of those patches). The nerfs were to Safeguard's duration (which was nerfed twice), Iron Will's duration, the removal of the AS slow from Cripple, and a reduction of his base armor and health regen.

Let's not forget the Season 6 Lee buffs.

Lee Sin is also the only champion that has actually had nerfs reverted.

There haven't been any buffs to Lee this pre season. His build path got nerfed. S5 he got a buff to his ult to make up for just how many damn tanks were running around not dying acting like 6k damage meat shields for the squishies. It was kind of a justified and situational buff. He has had almost 0 buffs other than that since his release. He has recieved mostly nerfs and few have been reverted. Stop lying to people to make your self look good.

Koldheartedjsp2 votes

he's got a long laundry list of nerfs, with only a handful of buffs, most being just compensation buffs/across the board type buffs (readding ward hopping because it was removed as a mechanic entirely, causing jax and kat mains to qq as well). I'm assuming this is the nerf you're talking about getting reverted, if not what one is it?

TheDevice1 votes

I think the issue has been more about his kit, not his items.

Btw, I find it really strange how you mention that they are "his" items lol. Doesnt that mean a item 3074 nerf is also a nerf to any champion that uses it?

Meanwhile, his kit has never been stronger; having also gotten a recent buff to his ult. Champions like Sion and Sejuani, on the other hand, are the real examples of getting nerfed. Not only did riot nerf items that they used but riot also decided to give them direct nerfs to their kits.

I actually don't even mind Lee sin. I wish Riot gave room for other champions to be just as good and have just as much depth as him and a few others.

It's also the apparent favoritism Lee has been shown by riot. I can't really count the number of Aatrox threads by people who, like me, would like to see him have a more interesting kit or at least make him less generic. But instead, Riot sorta just diregards that stuff because Aatrox' playerbase is so low anyway. Lee Sin is usually in the top 3 most played champions in the game, so he gets the bulk of Riots attention.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

I think the issue has been more about his kit, not his items.

Btw, I find it really strange how you mention that they are "his" items lol. Doesnt that mean a item 3074 nerf is also a nerf to any champion that uses it?

Meanwhile, his kit has never been stronger. Champions like Sion and Sejuani are the real examples of getting nerfed. Not only did riot nerf items that they used but riot also decided to give them direct nerfs.

I actually don't even mind Lee sin. I wish Riot gave room for other champions to be just as good and have just as much depth as him and a few others.

It's also the apparent favoritism Lee has been shown by riot. I can't really count the number of Aatrox threads by people who, like me, would like to see him have a more interesting kit or at least make him less generic. But instead, Riot sorta just diregards that stuff because Aatrox' playerbase is so low anyway. Lee Sin is usually in the top 3 most played champions in the game, so he gets the bulk of Riots attention.

I mean the items were made for people like him who are built bruiser. How often do you see anyone besides LeeSin rush a item 3074? It is meant to improve the early game power spikes of champs. But the overall net nerf to building it delayed the power spike for everyone. Lee in this case was one of the few champs that near always rushes this item and it isn't situational.

And for those who complain why Lee gets so much attention you only add to it. Sure he is played a lot in pro games but thats going to happen to anyone with a flexible or powerful kit in any meta. Look at Maokai the second he lost his strength he kind of fell out of the spot light for a very long time until they finally decided to go back and fix his kit.

TheDevice1 votes

{quoted}

I mean the items were made for people like him who are built bruiser. How often do you see anyone besides LeeSin rush a item 3074?

Talon Renekton Rengar Riven Darius Shyvana

And for those who complain why Lee gets so much attention you only add to it. Sure he is played a lot in pro games but thats going to happen to anyone with a flexible or powerful kit in any meta.

mhm

Look at Maokai the second he lost his strength he kind of fell out of the spot light for a very long time until they finally decided to go back and fix his kit.

You only prove that Mao isn't as popular as Lee. Which is true; he isn't. Lee has always been viable.

And, again, I never said I had issues against a Lee. I only hope that riot makes/reworks more champions that can deliver as much as Lee Sin does. Even out the playing field. Allow Lee Sin to share the spotlight with some more champions.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Talon Renekton Rengar Riven Darius Shyvana

mhm

You only prove that Mao isn't as popular as Lee. Which is true; he isn't. Lee has always been viable.

And, again, I never said I had issues against a Lee. I only hope that riot makes/reworks more champions that can deliver as much as Lee Sin does. Even out the playing field. Allow Lee Sin to share the spotlight with some more champions.

Almost every champ you listed now rushes item 3071 instead. Talon and maybe Rengar I think are the only ones that do it sometimes. Renekton rushes Titanic because its just so good on him. Maokai was popular for the same reason as Lee for their flexibility. His ult had a low CD for the effect it gave to him and his team. They made his counter play window bigger and he immediately lost popularity. He wasn't even that strong, he just was reliable and flexible. Lee is often a good pick because he is a generalist he does a lot of stuff better than average but doesn't really do anything the best. You dodge his Qs and he loses 1/3+ his damage. The thing is he has always shared the spot light with other champs its just pros like to pick consistent average picks instead of something really good that is easily countered and right now the player base likes to mimic the pros.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

The changes to Warrior were a huge buff to Lee Sin. He has an AD Sightstone now. Free positioning, easy invades into the enemy jungle, and a very early Sweeper's.

The removal of armor pen doesn't hurt him as much as you think. Lee Sin's E scales with AD but deals magic damage, so the increased AD from Warrior actually buffed that skill. With the 20 extra AD, his 200% AD scaling ult gains 40 damage, and that probably offsets the armor pen loss.

Also, because Tracker's/Stalker's/Skirmishers costs 1050 now instead of 700, early invades slow people down MUCH more, and Lee Sin is the king of early invades. Even if all he does is steal one camp from you and W out, you lose XP and a good chunk of gold while he gives up nothing.

Armor items are all more expensive, and Bami's Cinder is as well. In total, tanks won't get their easy farming item until 2150 gold (1050 jungle item and 1100 Bami's) as opposed to 1750 (750 jungle item, 1000 Bami's) last season, so repeated invades can prevent a tank from getting any serious clear speed until well after 20 minutes.

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