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What is the purpose of Ivern?

Wolf Queen··1 votes·2,462 views

He is super squishy, his ganks are like an amumu pre 6, pretty bad except with ivern you dont get a huge aoe stun when you hit 6. With annie you can pretty much 1 shot all squishies on their team late game with tibbers ult. With ivern your lucky if you can even kill one guy. Ivern ult does no dmg, enemy has to stand there or be already stunned for ivern to even get a stun off, and his stun is single target. Vi, annie, amumu, sej, malph, even nocturne has better CC then Ivern. Ivern ult is little to no cc and no damage. What does it even do?

If your against a jungler who knows the most basic of common sense(which is very few lets be real about that)Ivern wouldnt get passed level 3 until 6+ mins. Nid, graves, kha, noct, elise, pretty much all junglers with some form of damage can easily farm both sides of the jungle and farm ivern whenever he sees him and there isnt a single thing Ivern can do about it. So what is the purpose of Ivern? Like yea being a pacifist is a neat little change to the game...but he doesnt do ANYTHING.

28 Comments

Killstrado5 votes

If you want to be a carry don't play him, if you want to be near impossible to kill don't play him, if you want an ultimate that's flashy and does tons of damage don't play him, if you want to complain about a champs design because you haven't spent enough time figuring it out don't play him, if your sodium levels are higher than McDonald's French fries don't play him. But if you have a brain, love helping teammates, like upbeat whimsical champions, or don't mind having very few kills but want to make a huge impact on the game for your teammates and love to have fun MAIN HIM!

Critmaster Garen2 votes

he has the fastest level 1 clear in the game.

go to your blue, mark it. go to the enemy red, mark and smite the entire camp in a matter of literally 2 seconds. be back in time to pick up your blue.

Ralanr1 votes

He's basically a support that jungles. He's meant to provide a gold and buff advantage to your team (the buff is obvious because at level 5 he can leave buffs for laners to take).

Wolf Queen1 votes

The double buff part is nice but lets be real about that as well..when i jg 90% of the time mids dont even come for blue when i ping it. Whats the chance they will notice a free blue sitting in the jungle if they dont notice a normal jungler pinging it to come get it? And bot lane? Heck itll be rare to find an adc that notices it either. At least in my personal experience, perhaps in premades it wouldnt be a problem to get them to open their eyes

Ralanr1 votes

In pro play it's probably very powerful. Ivern is not going to be good for soloQ. In fact I'm pretty sure his soloQ winrate will always be low.

Honestly I've only played him 2-3 times and I'll admit that after the laning phase is over I'm not sure what to do. I don't have much damage or durability, so I can't start a dragon kill or fight well.

Honestly I'm debating on why I should even finish my jungle item on him and just rush RoA.

Wolf Queen1 votes

There is nothing you can do after laning. You cant initiate fights cause your ult is a useless version of tibbers. If they made Ivern ult stun instantly it might change him and make him stronger. But as of right now, Ivern cant initiate, nor can he poke, and has little kite ability. So really theres nothing you can do after laning you just hope and pray your team plays right to carry.

Apollocliptic4 votes

{quoted}

There is nothing you can do after laning. You cant initiate fights cause your ult is a useless version of tibbers. If they made Ivern ult stun instantly it might change him and make him stronger. But as of right now, Ivern cant initiate, nor can he poke, and has little kite ability. So really theres nothing you can do after laning you just hope and pray your team plays right to carry.

Both of you are so wrong lol

First, Ivern can gank faster than any other champ, and his pre-6 ganks compared to amumu are better because he brings you with him, and can shield you if you're low and help deal damage while giving you the kill?

Post 6 he can engage with daisy, if you are not sht, you can always land at least one knock up which is NOT single target, Daisy is single target, the knock up is AOE. She can also tank towers for dives, deal long range damage, scout dangerous areas with no vision, and if you position her well, you can land the knock up before the root, so you can land the root afterwards for even longer stun durations (she out damages tibbers if the enemy tries to fight, so they will ALWAYS have to run, free harrass and always burn their flash).

Ivern and Daisy can solo Drake, so you haven't learn her build yet if you can't They easily sabotage the enemy jungle, and depending on your playstyle, make it hard for them to successfully gank or level.

After laning phase Daisy pushes objectives very well, either join your team in 6v5 fights, or come in afterwards to push lanes. Daisy is great peel and makes it easy for ivern to escape if MORE THAN ONE person comes for him. He can usually fight 2v1 thanks to Daisy, and escape if there is 3. If there is 3 or more, what are the rest of your team doing?

He can solo drake even easier post laning phase, while ensuring that everyone has buffs, by easily stealing the enemy camps, sharing those, and then taking his own normally.

as far as literally how to play him, I give you these tips: Don't go full damage, you'd rather live longer and provide his "support utility" rather than try to carry. His full damage build isn't bad damage wise, but you will just get kited anyway, and he is less strong while running around or chasing, better at kiting and supporting.

Don't go full tank: some ap is better, as you want cdr and stronger shields, not to mention stronger daisy, and hourglass I find is great on him, since while the enemy waits for you to dispel, Daisy is landing her full damage, if they kite Daisy, you can escape bad situations while they are running away.

Use Daisy to block skill shots, and push lanes, then pull her back to get the Warmog style regen, then send her back to the front. You can quickly force objectives or burn enemy cc or skills, zone engage champs like amumu or blitz that need a clean shot, or just keep enemy occupied while securing objectives elsewhere on the map (nice with champs like shen or split pushers).

Ivern is a support in the jungle, he is not a carry, get that mentality into your heads and you'll suddenly understand how useful he is... It's the Bard discussion all over again

WoonStruck1 votes

Basically.

He won't scale terribly well as a squishy. You might even be better off going Cinder after RoA as opposed to Runic Echoes.

item 1409 item 3001 item 3027 item 3116 item 3157item 1001 and CDR+scaling resists in your rune page.

MohawkBird1 votes

Mids will easily come for that blue once they get used to Ivern and what he does. The mid doesn't even have to walk far at all and doesn't have to deal damage. It takes literally 10 seconds to walk there and back, with little missed CS.

Wolf Queen1 votes

Technically its the same for when any other jg champ pings blue. They burst t before the mid even gets there. But in my experience its rare for the mid to come. Ive seen diamond streams where thats not a problem but im not in diamond :P and neither are majority of players

Apollocliptic1 votes

This happens very often, though when I am mid i notice sometimes it is the junglers fault. if there is 10 minions pushing my tower and he decides now is the time for blue, I am losing a LOT of gold to get it on his schedule, rather than him waiting until I clear or push.

I agree, many times as jungle, knowing this, I wait until the lane is fully pushed to enemy side, but the mid still wants to stand there and watch the turret looking for a dive opportunity rather than come get free blue. Then they go base, then back to lane, and I am still pinging them (as Ivern) and then it disappears.

Other times people argue "I don't need it" I am like, it is FREE, CDR and ap for champs like kennen, or just the CDR on yas, or hp regen for top laners, and bonus damage, doesn't matter if you don't need it, free buff will help regardless won't it?

DrCyanide1 votes

Honestly, my experience as a Mid laner is that Blue Buff is almost never offered to me. If I'm lucky, one out of every six or seven games the Jungler will offer me Blue Buff.

Apollocliptic1 votes

Mid-world problems man, but Ivern changes everything :D

DrCyanide1 votes

He does! I'm excited for people to get better with him, because it means more Blue Buffs for me!

Chamuel851 votes

It works in reverse too. If an ally (maybe enemy) takes your blue/red buff, you get a free version of it as well.

Apollocliptic1 votes

Only ally, not enemy

though stealing the enemies is a good way to share, though risky for your lane to go collect

Urf Mode Is Life1 votes

{quoted}

The double buff part is nice but lets be real about that as well..when i jg 90% of the time mids dont even come for blue when i ping it. Whats the chance they will notice a free blue sitting in the jungle if they dont notice a normal jungler pinging it to come get it? And bot lane? Heck itll be rare to find an adc that notices it either. At least in my personal experience, perhaps in premades it wouldnt be a problem to get them to open their eyes

you are comparing your experiences to that of pro play which everything is designed and based around. Just because you have a team full of morons doesnt mean iverns kit isnt extremely powerful in the right team comp / right hands

Wolf Queen1 votes

Also if your against a jungler with common sense(which wont happen often unless your really high rank)you wont get level 5 until like 10 mins in. Ivern is powerless to stop a jungler from farming his camps he will have to tax lanes to get any xp. I wouldnt even have to gank against an Ivern jungle. The gold id get from farming him and both sides of the jg, plus the moral boost for my team and the salt of the other team that would do more then ganks would.

Ralanr1 votes

If you know they're going to come for you, why not go into their JG when they aren't there?

Wolf Queen1 votes

Its hard to know when your being invaded and where. You could walk to their jg and being walking over wards(if enemy jungler is playing right your jg would be heavily warded)then a laner sees a free kill walking into the open. Boom dead. Or the jungler could come at you and your dead. Your laners wouldnt even be able to help you cause you cant 2v2 with a person thats dead weight

Ralanr1 votes

Unless you counter jungle them first.

Wolf Queen1 votes

Could yes, but you can only counter jg 1 camp with smite. The enemy jungler can farm your jg as much as he likes without being restricted by needing to wait on passive or waiting on smite

Apollocliptic1 votes

all your points work both ways except the "dead weight" part. If Ivern wards, you are the one that is screwed, and he will ward, because he expects you to try get him when he is low. If he is caught in your jungle by ward, he lane can come help as much as yours, so it is still 2v1, except Ivern is a high peel utility champ, so killing him is not easy. He can take all your camps if he can see you in his jungle with his ward, not just one with smite, because he will have that much time, he won't if he knows it's warded, but then again, he still has your buff, while you might end up killed by the adc or mid lane, who knows you are there, and you are low because you just solo'd his buff? Most supports can force you to run at this point, and if you ward, it means your jungle is less warded, so same problem,

You are, 9/10 more likely to get killed in Ivern's jungler than he is in yours, because few champs can catch him, and he will always warn his team of his intentions, so they will watch out for free kills when your level 1 mid laners tries to kill a level 2 Ivern, who peels long enough for his level 2 mid laner (who did get the farm in lane) to come help

So many situations you've missed that will cause you much headache in games. I played with premades in custom who KNEW what I would do, but they couldn't stop me, because my timing and positioning was just better. Imagine how hard it is when you don't know which route he can take

Note: i have stolen blue while enemy jungle and top are taking Grump, by the time they moved into position it was already leaving. A quick root and they realised that chasing me would only set them both further behind.

Apollocliptic1 votes

LOL I thought I would have trouble at first, but since Ivern can clear red without losing hp, and can build combat runes instead of jungle runes, you can destroy MOST junglers stupid enough to come for you early game, you will probably steal their farm faster than they can steal yours, and with vision (I usually start pink and build trackers fast) you know when they are coming, you just go instantly clear your camps and then steal theirs while they search for your camps that are all empty

There is always risk with counter jungling, but the risk is small with the high vision high utility instant clear of Ivern, but still high for every other jungle champ, except maybe lee sin who can see he fked up and escape. If your team is responsive, an enemy that tries to counter you is really screwed, trust me, it is a less wise strategy against people who are expecting it.

Hyrdan1 votes

Im gonna buy him and play him. But for now, seriously Daisy just suck ! Yes, he sucks too much. Your W can be used against you ! So funny. Ahaha.

Great Muta1 votes

He's a Bard type of Champion. Very niche and very different from the rest of the pack.

WoonStruck1 votes

TBH you just build tank+CDR and let your ult do everything while you give your team a gapcloser.

Its like Rek'sai is in competitive, basically. Except instead of giving vision, you can deny it. Still relies on basically on offensive utility for the most part.

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