Whys it so hard for people to play passive?

Wolf Queen·Sep 22, 2016·50 votes·4,153 views

Like i completely understand your gonna lose lane sometimes but i dont understand why the feed. When i lane i lose lane sometimes but i dont feed, i play passive i hug tower. You have so many options but people always pick the feed one. You have A. give tower so lane pushes to you and easier to farm, yes fb tower is bad to give but its better then feeding all game. B. roam and gank to other lanes, put pressure on the map else where if you cant stay in your lane. C. simply hug tower and farm under it, concentrate on CS instead of fighting. Like do any of those options exist in the minds of people? Is there something wrong with these options that im not seeing that makes people choose to go 0/8 in lane instead of picking one of these? Please if theres something wrong with those options i wanna know.

119 Comments

EndlessSorcererSep 22, 201635 votes

"But I have to be the carry. I can't trust these scrubs on my team"

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 22, 201612 votes

{quoted}

"But I have to be the carry. I can't trust these scrubs on my team"

solo queue mentality that people accepted over the years of the rank system.

now riot tries to change that with dynamic queue and all we get is people crying about it

BIH DiamondSep 23, 20169 votes

Dynamic que doesn't even fix this. All it does is allow for an easy way to boost

Hinagiku33Sep 23, 20162 votes

How in the Hell does Dynamic Queue address this in any way?

"These scrubs are probably premade, now I have to carry even harder."

"This trio all had the same club tag and aren't using chat, definitely can't trust them."

"Why is my premade shit and their premade god-like? Now I can't win unless I hard carry them myself."

"Oh look, their Gold I top is laning against our Bronze I top while most of us are only Silver I...gonna have to go full ham to carry this one."

The hard carry mentality stems from not being able to trust your teammates to not fuck up. DQ made this even worse because now some people don't communicate in chat in favor of voice chat or being in the same room as their friends. To say nothing of the rampant paranoia that the premade system causes since you know full well that you can easily be laning against someone far above your level while someone on your team can be a "boosted animal" and make the match impossible.

DunkinNoobsSep 22, 201634 votes

Because once you get to an elo where people don't suck, playing passive just gets you dove.

Malicious MetalSep 22, 201610 votes

Depends on who you're playing

SchoenbergSep 23, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79VzjN5Q,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-09-22T20:04:18.453+0000)

Depends on who you're playing

There once was a man who dived under turret on a Kayle, lets not speak of that.

HateDaddySep 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There once was a man who dived under turret on a Kayle, lets not speak of that.

I've done it plenty of times with Maokai and Malphite . Towers don't mean much to these champions lol

BLACK REALM GODSep 23, 20162 votes

Taric Alistar Rammus Trundle

item 3075 item 3110 item 3026 item 3083 item 3742 item 3053 summoner 4 summoner 14

Ezreal i've got this.

KnoyleSep 23, 20162 votes

If I'm playing Jinx I tend to get real upset when I find 2 extra enemies bot lane diving me Just because I 2v2 killed the enemy adc ONCE. Nothing gets more annoying than this shit happening every 3 minutes after 10 minutes.

MelledoneusSep 23, 20161 votes

Shen Farming the wave slowly Nasus Glaring at Shen Shen Wave is frozen, is keeping it frozen Nasus Takes a step forward Hecarim Gallops out of bush Shen Makes eye contact with both of them Nasus A bead of sweat forms, but he steps forward again Hecarim Prepares weapon nervously Shen "Dive me. Even try to dive me. I f-cking dare you." Nasus Whimpers and starts recalling Hecarim Shuffles away dejected Shen "That's what I thought."

YumaS2AstralSep 23, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Because once you get to an elo where people don't suck, playing passive just gets you dove.

This

Oftentimes I will play passive but I still die because enemies can towerdive me when they are in 2 or 3. And there is absolutely nothing I can do.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 22, 201618 votes

because the game is a 1 vs 1 skill show off pissing match instead of the strategy objective game it is suppose to be

Wolf QueenSep 22, 20168 votes

They'd be showing off their skill a lot better if they show that losing lane doesnt stop them from being useful.

Synnx7Sep 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79VzjN5Q,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-22T14:24:06.810+0000)

because the game is a 1 vs 1 skill show off pissing match instead of the strategy objective game it is suppose to be

What objectives. Baron and drake each at 15minutes or what. This game is just whack-a-mole for 30minutes

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 22, 20163 votes

hmm there are these things called turrets, inhibs, nexus to name a few

Synnx7Sep 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79VzjN5Q,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2016-09-22T17:48:24.222+0000)

hmm there are these things called turrets, inhibs, nexus to name a few

These are just gameplay things. Look at HoTs. 11 different maps ( soon) , each one has objectives outside of inhibs ,turrets and nexus

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 22, 20162 votes

hmm i might be wrong but are we on the boards regarding LEAGUE ? or is it HOTS ? i been sick alot lately n not feeling well i might be mistaken...

AstôlfoSep 22, 201614 votes

Because everyone wants to make those LC$(tupid) BIG PLAYS, instead of playing smart. I'm guilty of it sometimes too.

SmileInABoxSep 22, 201611 votes

To be fair, there are some champs that can easily tower dive once they get a kill or bit ahead. Playing passive can't save you from a Yasuo or Riven.

DoktorKaiserSep 23, 20164 votes

True I just play a game with Sion, Yasuo got lucky 1v1 at lvl 4, got lvl 6 first later and just went under turret, 0 fucks given, 1 shots a tank and tanks the turret and goes out with more than half hp. Back in the day turrets actually used to do extreme damage pre ~lvl 10, and only tanks could actually dive. Now I get dived on by a fucking Yasuo. Clap, clap, clap...

Spicy RiceSep 23, 20161 votes

so either

A. You had no hp

B. You had less than no hp

nice tableSep 23, 20161 votes

the trick is to not give them that early kill.

TheSingularitySep 25, 20161 votes

That's the equivalent advice to "don't die" Not helpful whatsoever

nice tableSep 25, 20161 votes

neh its actually pretty good advice. people get greedy all the time and die 1v1, sure you will lose some cs when you recall at half health but the enemy isnt going to get a kill on you + you missing the cs since you are dead. same for all in potential in top lane, sure you will miss a couple of minions when you stand back n wait out their power spike / for them to push into you but its still better than dying.

TheSingularitySep 25, 20161 votes

But that isn't the situation we're on about here. The comment that started this flow of comments was all about champs you simply can't stop or will simply dive you without a second thought.

So for example, telling a zac to simply not die/give a lead to a darius is simply absurd. Darius and others are built to kill early and with ease. In most cases the only counter play is to simply leave lane and hope he doesn't follow.

If zac stays, he gets zoned, loses cs/xp which unintentionally gives darius a lead which he'd later be able to abuse for an easy tower dive, tp ganks (which you'd be to far behind to respond to) or he could simply freeze lane and force the zac into submission.

Sure if it's gnar vs gp your statement fits. But that's far more even than an oppressive bully vs a usually passive farmer.

Other examples where the advice "don't die" is sheer stupidity; Who you can't die to vs whoever's there. Annie vs tf Akali(6)/diana(6) vs most mages Darius vs rumble Vayne vs sion Draven+sona vs varus+janna Yas vs vel koz Shaco vs maokai (both jg) Tryndamere vs gp

The list goes on but in every case there's simply nothing that can be done without giving a lead unless you're an absolute god while they're scrubs.

nice tableSep 25, 20161 votes

Annie vs tf - by the time annie hits 6 you should have a negatron cloak and you take exchaust against annie, no reason to die here. Akali(6)/diana(6) vs most mages - again you will have a negatron cloak and exchaust by the time these hit 6, no reason to die here they will roam since they can kill you 1v1. Darius vs rumble - just going to have to last hit with E here and hope for jungle ganks, still no reason to die as it wont actually do you any good. Vayne vs sion - i mean this is a aids lane but with no burst damage vayne should naturally have 0 kill pressure unless you over stay. Draven+sona vs varus+janna - well when i say "just dont die" im usually talking about 1v1 lanes, varus can farm very safely from distance with Q and E though. Yas vs vel koz - this is ... well i don't see how you die here ... Shaco vs maokai (both jg) - ward your jungle entrances and dont go from gromp / golems straight to the buff to avoid cheese. Tryndamere vs gp - you run exhaust as gp and poke as much as possible with your q to avoid agression, he shouldnt be avoid to dive you 1v1 before really late into the game.

TheSingularitySep 26, 20161 votes

Most of your solutions involve taking exhaust. Most don't take exhaust in blind pick. And if we on about ranked here, there is a substantial window to die during its cooldown. (annie has popped me through a banshees and abyssal, she was 4/2 which shouldn't exactly be enough to burst through that much mr). What summoner would you replace as gp? Get rid of tp and he has split advantage. Get rid of flash and the camp will be real.

I know how to survive shaco. But you can't effectively ward your jungle solo. And you'd struggle to find random players who'd help you out in that situation.

The death to the yas generally ends a stalemate of wave clear spam. Generally I live long enough that we've both farmed close to a first item. But eventually they get sick of a farm fest, flash>e>q>r and that kill gives him that one item edge (which gets the snowball rolling) That and the only time he dies is if he dives me lvl 3 and fails miserably.

Can see your point in the bot lane match up. But you'd be unintentionally giving them a cs and xp lead (feeding without feeding) (varus aa range is decent but the wind up time leaves him vulnerable early).

It's easy enough to stick a bandaid solution on it. But in most cases there's more at play than a summoner spell or an item; (latency, individual skill, jungle presence, creep block, mid roams, tp ganks ect)

nice tableSep 26, 20161 votes

lets not talk about blind pick as its just the place where people go to troll ya know.

taking exhaust flash is meta on gangplank, also helps to prevent a lot of the dives tank junglers (my self included) like to pull on gangplank players.

i mean a annie isnt going to pop you through banshees and abyssal unless shes like full build and you are behind in levels.

The death to the yas generally ends a stalemate of wave clear spam.

again the level 6 all in is easily avoided or you can go back and shop before him, get a armguard and teleport back to lane if you opt for tp over exhaust. also as his flash e q isnt instant you can actually counter flash it.

But you'd be unintentionally giving them a cs and xp lead (feeding without feeding)

i mean sure usually you will be behind when you are playing against early game champions but being behind is always better than dying.

the main point is that there is pretty much no reason to die 1v1 besides you being bad or the game already being over.

TheSingularitySep 26, 20161 votes

Fair points bae, I concede XD

When did exhaust/flash become meta on gp? Haven't seen that shift at all yet yet (may just be oce)

As for the koz yas matchup. Would you personally waste mana trying to bully the dashing brat early (wat I've been doing) or would you just farm and wait for team fights?

And the big one, is there anyone who can devourer darius post 6 but pre 9 that doesn't feel cheap?

nice tableSep 26, 20161 votes

no one really runs exhaust in "low elo" as everyones out for blood instead of playing smart but its a pretty underrated summoner.

i mean its not the most used summoner on gangplank but its the best one, all the gangplank mains in decently high elo run mostly exhaust unless its a incredibly passive lane, https://champion.gg/champion/Gangplank you can see here that teleport is still used 10x more than exhaust but the people running exhaust are the ones winning games.

vel out scales yasuo pretty hard so there's no real pressure to do anything in lane but if you can keep him at lowish health it will prevent him from trying to all in you and blowing your exhaust cd as it would result in his death more often than not.

im not sure what you mean by "doesn't feel cheap" but trundle can pretty much 1v1 darius with no health loss from level 6 till level 18, the early levels are hard and you have to respect darius cheese but after 6 its your lane.

TheSingularitySep 26, 20161 votes

Awesomes info so take a bigo thanko for your time bae <3 Shall be interesting to see how easy it'll be landing barrels on exhausted proples XD

GLHF!!!!!

AMYS GRAVESep 23, 20163 votes

Ekko + Gragas towerdove me 3 times top before 10 min recently.

SherogarthSep 22, 201611 votes

Warwick : "Guys i wont be able to gank till lvl 6, play safe." 3 min into the game: FIRST BLOOD Warwick : "Not this again..."

AstôlfoSep 22, 20162 votes

This is why he ate those 3 damn pigs.

Teh SongSep 22, 201611 votes

A lot of them are choosing to hide under tower and play passive. They still get killed doing it

ZerenzaSep 22, 20169 votes

Sometimes you don't have a choice, there are champions, especially in Top/Mid who are Diver's and playing passive just doesn't work because they'll dive you under tower. You can't even CS properly against most of them because they'll kill you, they're lane bullies and it's just something you have to accept. As a jungler you probably don't have a complete understanding of this despite playing one of the best Diver Jungler's, sometimes playing passive just doesn't help anything. There are match ups where i just accept that i'm going to be dove or killed more than usual in lane unless i get help, here's just a few.

(if they pick these first though you can just pick an anti-diver like Lissandra or Ahri and be relatively safe but if you pick first, these are hell to laner's)

Top: Renekton, Darius, Pantheon, Yasuo Mid: Fizz, Yasuo, Zed, Diana Jungle: Nocturn, Lee Sin, Vi, Volibear

DogshítPlayerSep 22, 20163 votes

DOnt forget volibear that damn bear will live under your tower if you fall to far behind!

RevaliSep 23, 20161 votes

funny about that is, aside from darius, Illaoi is very strong against every single one of em.

ZerenzaSep 23, 20161 votes

What makes it funnier is that's my main XD

xBushxSep 22, 20164 votes

Usually you can't play passive if the other person is playing aggressive. Due to trades and such you don't want to play passive to the point that even if JG came you would give up two kills instead of one.

Champion SkinSep 22, 20164 votes

If the enemy freezes the lane instead of just randomly pushing all the time you are basically only left with option B (if you are a melee champion anyways)

Wolf QueenSep 22, 20161 votes

Option b isnt really that bad. Your enemy laner is getting a few extra cs, but you are roaming, getting a kill bot, getting dra, getting tower, etc etc

Champion SkinSep 22, 20163 votes

That is assuming you have a champion which is actually good at roaming/ganking... and that the roam/gank actually worked out which might not happen

Wolf QueenSep 22, 20161 votes

You are right it might not. But just like when a jg ganks even if you dont get a kill it is still putting pressure on that lane. The enemy laner wont be able to go as aggressive if your camping it cause hed be scared of dying any time he goes in.

Champion SkinSep 22, 20162 votes

Making one lane not get any farm (you don't get to farm the lane when you aren't there) is most of the time not worth it if all you are doing is putting pressure on a lane making them miss some CS and forcing them to play passively (unless you can get the tower or find a good opportunity to make a play... though trying to force a play which isn't there will likely lead to disaster obviously)

Though it does depend a lot on the situation like if the top laner isn't as gold reliant it isn't as bad (if they have high utility/CC)

Lanakila AuSep 22, 20163 votes

But the enemy is quarter health! Sure he has 3 levels and 4 kills on me but I'll be able to outplay and kill him this time!!!!

DarkRitualSep 22, 20162 votes

It tilts me when I pick Morgana, and my ADC wants to play passive against a Soraka lane. So... I take charge, and spoon feed them kill chances they can't pass up. If they do pass them up, free kills for me.

Wolf QueenSep 22, 20163 votes

How you play at the start is all up to each player. This is merely why dont you play passive when behind instead of dying over and over trying to fight.