Can we just nerf Yasuo's pressure early game?

WoonStruck·Mar 30, 2016·19 votes·1,163 views

Make his E have a little higher global cooldown at low ranks. He generally maxes it first, so this will primarily affect level 1-2.

Its pretty silly that he can have near infinite gapclosers to auto you at level 1-2 just because you have the audacity to want to CS. FFS, he doesn't even need his bread-and-butter skill, Q, before he has kill potential on some champs.

If he's a hypercarry, why is his early game, level 1-2 specifically, so oppressive to so many different champions?

39 Comments

Slamurai JackMar 30, 201612 votes

Yasuo's "Dominant" Early Game:

http://imgur.com/Bm0SnoL

AstôlfoMar 30, 20167 votes

dat 44% winrate tho

BoilTheOilMar 30, 201612 votes

he doesnt need nerfs

theonlyaustinMar 30, 20169 votes

Yasuo is already in a horrible spot right now, why make his kit even weaker? he does horrid against a good amount of champs Zed Azir Leblanc Anivia Corki just to name a few. All I'm seeing is you don't know how to fight a yasuo or you haven't learned to itemize for a yasuo

WoonStruckMar 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo is already in a horrible spot right now, why make his kit even weaker? he does horrid against a good amount of champs just to name a few. All I'm seeing is you don't know how to fight a yasuo or you haven't learned to itemize for a yasuo

You say all of those champions beat him when the majority of those are 50/50 match-ups where any decent Yasuo can harass while taking minimal return damage in comparison if played decently.

I've seen Zed vs Yasuo enough times to know its easy for yasuo if you aren't bad at laning. Its a 50/50 only because of how Volatile the match-up can be, especially with jungle interference.

Zed is simply easier to play. The others have much safer pick potential for mid-game. Otherwise, they have much greater team utility. That's the only reason Yas has a lower win-rate. That and most get over-aggressive and ignore that junglers are a thing. However, a champion shouldn't require jungler intervention to be considered balanced in a lane. One or two that he/she hard counters, okay. But the majority? No. Old Morde got nerfed to the ground for the same reasons, and he didn't even have playmaking potential.

Handin Out NapsMar 30, 20167 votes

Zed vs Yasuo is an absolute 100% shit stomp. If Zed has half a brain he will just wait till lvl 6 and cash in on the free 300 gold everytime Yasuo walks into lane. You have no idea what you are talking about, pls stop.

SheeporothMar 30, 20168 votes

Isn't Yasuo late game? Early game I get destroyed, late game I get a quadra with one q.

SquidsmastahMar 31, 20167 votes

Chogath takes massive shits on Yasuo.

You wanna jump around? Nope. Silenced for 4 seconds.

You wanna try to make a low HP play? Nope. I'll just kill you with my point and click execute.

Trying to get away with nothing to E on? Nope. I'll just get you with my long ranged Q.

Trying to attack me with your Flow Shield? Nope. My Void Spikes already took it down.

WoonStruckMar 31, 20161 votes

I never said Yasuo is too strong in general. His early game remains oppressive to many champs though. Level 1-2. He gets enough of an advantage in some match-ups through that period alone to have a significant impact on the lane.

Nobody wants him to be another Riven, and his power-curve should be adjusted to prevent that, even if it means giving him buffs elsewhere, like the minimum shield on his passive.

OurLestradeMar 30, 20164 votes

They should give it an ammo system like Akali's ult, but maybe give it a higher cap. That way if he uses it too heavily he has to wait for the recharge :O

WoonStruckMar 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They should give it an ammo system like Akali's ult, but maybe give it a higher cap. That way if he uses it too heavily he has to wait for the recharge :O

Decent suggestion.

Goes to show that in the past they gave champions more gates and fewer 'outplays' while still being able to simply out-fight anyone whether or not they outplay someone.

Yeah, Akali was "OP" at some point, but you had to pretty much give her kills to let her start rolling. Its only then that she was an issue, and even then she was still gated by her ult charges.

Yasuo, Zed, Lucian, Graves, etc will never not be strong now unless Riot (actually Tencent lol) absolutely crushes their numbers simply because they don't have drawbacks for the outplay potential they have, and the moment they aren't unanimously better than the majority of the cast, they won't be picked anymore because others are 'more consistent'. Then after that, the consistent champions get nerfed for 'crowding the meta' after only being top picks for a patch or two...meanwhile 5 months and its still the same top picks, for the most part in 'League of I Suck But its Okay Because the Current OPs Will Carry Me Since I Have No Shame.'

Longest season title ever, and WAY worse than League of Cleavers.

Sorry for being a bit ranty, but I'm sick of watching this game go down hill and experiencing it at the same time. Its frustrating how everything wrong is so obvious, yet Riot does nothing to fix it, and if they do, its not nearly enough to change anything. And no, this isn't about Yasuo. Its about the game in general right now. I actually don't have huge issues with Yasuo, I just think he needs some minor tuning early game.

Whiteeye AvelynApr 1, 20161 votes

Tencent has no standing in how riot controls league They are the funding and advertising, Any thing that is changed is done by riot themselves

Spanked eGirlMar 30, 20163 votes

{quoted}

They should give it an ammo system like Akali's ult, but maybe give it a higher cap. That way if he uses it too heavily he has to wait for the recharge :O

As a yasuo player, that would actually be a good idea, like 5 charges. Because theres been times with a big minion wave that I can dodge for years simply because I never run out of targets

BurreaMar 30, 20163 votes

what they need to do to balance yas back out isn't even really get rid of the insane dashing but get rid of that passive shield that blocks all damage till it dissipates, by either putting it back to the original shield that gave him a flat amount of a shield or get rid of it all together and give him a more balanced passive because his 1-2sec invincibility makes it so he can dash right to you through all the minions smash your face and back out with 0 dmg taken from the exchange.

WoonStruckMar 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

what they need to do to balance yas back out isn't even really get rid of the insane dashing but get rid of that passive shield that blocks all damage till it dissipates, by either putting it back to the original shield that gave him a flat amount of a shield or get rid of it all together and give him a more balanced passive because his 1-2sec invincibility makes it so he can dash right to you through all the minions smash your face and back out with 0 dmg taken from the exchange.

I never have an issue with his shield. I seem to take it down all the time and harass him through it. The issue is that no matter what, he can dash to almost any mid-laner that's trying to poke down his shield. And that's not even considering minions being between you and him.

They could make minions activate it as well, though.

Seriously, the issue is his dash early game. It effectively has 100% uptime unless you're simply playing extremely badly. You don't even have to use up the 'cd' against a single target to harass, which lets him leave it for kill pressure AND have minions still to escape. He simply does not have trade-offs for what he's offered early game, so what he's offered needs to be gimped hard and scale into mid-game, especially since he's effectively a hypercarry.

AstôlfoMar 30, 20163 votes

Uh, it's hardly an invulnerable shield. One AA/poke and it's gone. lol

The Bíg TicketMar 30, 20163 votes

If any adc is a hypercarry why are they allowed to bully any bruiser out of toplane?

LaughingMan11Mar 30, 20163 votes

thats just the ranged vs Melee power, any bruiser with decent gap closers has little issue actually fighting ranged top laners if they play right.

The Bíg TicketMar 30, 20163 votes

Yes thats why Quinn and Graves are best toplaners in the game while 0 bruisers are being played competitively or at any decent elo.

SpoofghoulMar 30, 20163 votes

untill you realize you can counter quin with sion :)

LaughingMan11Mar 31, 20161 votes

You can counter Quinn with Darius too, and you just pick someone with high mobility vs Graves to bait his skill shots.

AlwaysByMySideMar 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You can counter Quinn with Darius too

lol

LaughingMan11Mar 31, 20161 votes

You apprehend when she dashes to you, and pull her out of her dash, then proceed to roflstomp her face b/c shes stuck next to you. Same concept as Sion Q when she dashes to get the knock up.

AlwaysByMySideMar 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You apprehend when she dashes to you

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

LaughingMan11Mar 31, 20162 votes

Just because you're bad and can't do it, doesn't mean others can't.

AlwaysByMySideMar 31, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Just because you're bad and can't do it, doesn't mean others can't.

Let me spell out for you why your silly analysis of the match-up is bullshit: Quinn has no reason to dash to a Darius who has his E up. It's his only ability that outranges her auto attacks.

But hey don't believe me, look at the data of the match-up from players much better than you:

http://champion.gg/matchup/Darius/Quinn/Top

It's extremely amusing that you thought you could legitimately argue that Darius beats one of his biggest, if not his biggest, counters.

No, Darius is the kind of champion Quinn's kit dominates the most. An immobile melee champion. He's one of her easiest match-ups.

LaughingMan11Mar 31, 20161 votes

I personally think the main reason why Quinn can beat Darius, or any melee, so easily is simply because she's ranged and most top lane players have no idea how to play vs ranged when they're melee. Most of the people i play with who go top lane and vs Quinn, beat Quinn, weather as Darius or some one else. Not saying your stats are wrong, I'm just saying what I've seen contradicts very heavily what you're saying.

AlwaysByMySideMar 31, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I personally think the main reason why Quinn can beat Darius, or any melee, so easily is simply because she's ranged and most top lane players have no idea how to play vs ranged when they're melee. Most of the people i play with who go top lane and vs Quinn, beat Quinn, weather as Darius or some one else. Not saying your stats are wrong, I'm just saying what I've seen contradicts very heavily what you're saying.

That's nice.

I recently laned against a Quinn as Garen and solo killed her.

This isn't because Garen counters Quinn, it's because the Quinn was bad.

Assuming a relatively equal skill level Quinn wins that match up. Same with Darius. But you see, people in low elos don't know how to do things like kite.

LaughingMan11Mar 31, 20161 votes

I personally think Garen is a rather weak argument, but i get your point. Quinn would have to be genuinely bad to lose to Garen, who has no real way of keeping her at melee range, or getting her there to begin with.

As far as Darius/Sion and although i dont really want to include Riven, she can stun Quinn into melee range (i think, i dont remember if her stun is wide enough) after baiting Vault. If they have the opportunity to engage on Quinn, she has 2 options; walk away, or Vault. If she decides to walk away, she risks taking damage she might not be able to afford (being naturally squishier and such) but can hold onto her vault for a more pressing emergency. If she decides to Vault, and the enemy with the lock down is good enough, she risks dying to that person or getting free poke, although more often than not its a guaranteed safer option than trying to walk, it also leaves her vulnerable for a short while to any other engages that may happen.

Kiting is a very good point, which I'll admit i haven't payed enough attention to see weather or not the enemy Quinn does it, but I do find it rather unlikely that literally every Quinn my friends play against is bad.

AstôlfoMar 30, 20162 votes

I think the charge system Lestrade suggest would be better, because the idea you posted wouldn't really make it any different from Lucian's dash, except just not being able to reduce CD through hits.

Clutch ThompsonMar 30, 20161 votes

Pick Mordekaiser huehueuehuheuhe

LuggMar 31, 20161 votes

They just need to nerf him so that if he has a bad early game, he's worthless the rest of the game. Right now he just gets his items and destroys regardless of how bad he did early.

WoonStruckMar 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They just need to nerf him so that if he has a bad early game, he's worthless the rest of the game. Right now he just gets his items and destroys regardless of how bad he did early.

Absolutely no champion should be required to have a bad game simply because they did poorly early game.

All they need to do is even out his level 1-2 in laning specifically (cause even in level 1 teamfights he's not an issue). This could include a small global CD when used against minions at rank 1 of E (removed at rank 2), minions popping shield, shield health starting lower, or requiring a point in W for his shield to even exist.

There are lots of ways to make Yasuo fair level 1-2 without gimping his early game entirely.

LuggApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Absolutely no champion should be required to have a bad game simply because they did poorly early game.

I have to disagree with that. Champions need to have a significant weakness at some point in the game. Once Yas hits level 3, he is good for the entire game if you are good with him. Champs like Veigar start out slow and scale up. Corki has a great mid game but drops off late. Panth is an early game bully but falls of as the game goes on.

Champs that snowball hard need to be worthless if they don't have a good early game. Otherwise there isn't any risk for them being played at all.

WoonStruckApr 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I have to disagree with that. Champions need to have a significant weakness at some point in the game. Once Yas hits level 3, he is good for the entire game if you are good with him. Champs like Veigar start out slow and scale up. Corki has a great mid game but drops off late. Panth is an early game bully but falls of as the game goes on.

Champs that snowball hard need to be worthless if they don't have a good early game. Otherwise there isn't any risk for them being played at all.

The point is to take away his snowball factor. Make him less like Riven, more like Vlad's pattern. Starts slow, but with a lot of safety. If you focus on farm, you will hit your power point. The difference being that Yasuo has play-making and pick potential, which would stop him from being bad.

If he ate early game nerfs, he'd obviously get compensation, which I'm all for. I don't want a lane potentially determined at level 1 or 2 without any cost for a champion. Mind you, not the enemy misplaying, but just for playing a specific champion.

LuggApr 1, 20161 votes

I agree that you have to keep him from snowballing. The problem I have with Yas is that if you make one mistake, he can snowball you really hard and literally take over the entire game. The other problem is that you can completely dumpster him in lane and he will still destroy your team in teamfights if he or a teammate land a 4 or 5 man knockup.

WoonStruckApr 1, 20161 votes

That's not going to change unless Yasuo becomes a tank... If you want him to stop shredding teams, though, making a 50% armor pen debuff for yasuo only on targets hit would be a place to start...why are people that aren't hit by it punished that severely as well?

Mind you, he'd probably eat some significant buffs for that, which I wouldn't mind entirely.

LuggApr 2, 20161 votes

I don't disagree with you on that. Yas definitely needs some kind of rework. If he is in a team comp with someone like Malphite, your chances of winning that game are pretty slim.

Ruin LanceApr 1, 20161 votes

yasuo is already bad enough right now. and his "early game pressure" becomes non-existent if you get someone who counters him or get your jungler on his ass.