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Zeal Upgrades & Heal/Shield Power

Tèrminus··22 votes·864 views

  • Remove the 5% Movement Speed passive from Zeal and put it on Kircheis Shard. Kircheis is a really pathetic item (it's literally 46.88% gold efficient before its passive, making it by far the most inefficient item in the entire game that I';m aware of), and Zeal is ~114% gold-efficient, so it seems like this would solve two problems at once.

  • Remove the ability for Statikk Shiv's Shiv Lightning to critically strike. A 30% chance of a fairly powerful AoE magic shock that can hit both the enemy ADC AND the support is really strong for a single item, especially one that's fairly cheap AND scales well due to its base stats.

  • Remove Rapid Firecannon's +25% Energize rate, buff its Attack Speed by 5%, and let its Energized attack critically strike for modified bonus damage (maybe 50% bonus damage, like the modified Runaan's bolts I suggested before). It's a single shot as opposed to Shiv's AoE, so it should have higher potential damage. Upping the damage rather than the frequency of Energized shots seems more stable to me, especially when it already ups the frequency of damage anyway by way of being an AS item.

  • Adding onto the above two points, make it so that champions can only buy a single "Energize" item (like how you can only have one Tiamat item) and increase both Shiv and Firecannon's total costs to 2700. This removes the need to worry about how to make Shiv and Firecannon interact, while also giving both items room to have better individual scaling in their niches.

  • Increase Phantom Dancer's Spectral Waltz bonus movement speed to 12% (the amount it currently grants in total on live due to PD having 5% MS from Zeal), and reduce both Spectral Waltz's movement speed and Lament's damage reduction to 8% on ranged champions. This keeps its in-fight mobility and durability for the melees that like it, and who only have this and Shiv for Zeal upgrades, while reducing those traits' effectiveness on ranged champions who already have their range + the aid of a support to increase their longevity.

  • Reduce the critical damage modifier on Runaan's Hurricane bolts from 100% to 50% (critical bolt damage reduced from 80% AD to 60% AD, or from 100% AD to 70% AD with Infinity Edge). The bolts really shouldn't be doing 100% AD physical damage if they crit with Infinity Edge, on top of any on-hit stuff the user has, and this also nerfs the champions who do stupid things with Hurricane's critical capability, mainly Twitch and Jinx.

Overall, the Zeal upgrades add big scaling power due to how all the stats interact, so their own innate abilities shouldn't be so strong immediately on their own.

/-/-/

  • Change the "Heal and Shield Power" passive to "Your heals and shields are up to X% stronger based on the target's Missing Health, up to Y% on targets with 50% Health or less". Emphasize clutch saves rather than just passively making killing targets an exercise in frustration, kind of like how Shen's ultimate was changed a while back.

  • Revert Fleet Footwork to only use AD/AP to determine the heal, with no flat value. This way you actually have to build AD to get your healing up. Essentially, revert it to Warlord's Bloodlust and tack an AP ratio onto it.

Reducing the sheer effectiveness heals/shields have would make ADCs more inclined to look into a Bloodthirster or Mercurial Scimitar as a third item if they need some more durability, which helps with the standing issue of "IE/ER into double Zeal items" being such an efficient and strong build path.

/-/-/

This idea below is a hypothetical, and I'm not sure how well it'd actually pan out. Figured I'd add it anyway.

  • Critical strike damage is reduced from 200% to 150% at level 1, and scales up to 200% at level 18.

/-/-/

Felt like brainstorming.

Also, this is unrelated to the thread title, but why does Press the Attack amplify damage from ALL sources and not just the guy who applied PtA? Why does every Precision user have access to an effect that's so strong it's normally only relegated to Vladimir's ultimate, and on basically no real cooldown?

16 Comments

Tèrminus7 votes

Not sure if this would leave Hurricane too weak or not, though, since it'd also lose its bonus MS. Then again, it still provides a consistent source of AoE damage on attacks.

Personally, I'd like to see Runaan's not have or interact with critical strike at all. Make it an AS/MS/CDR item or something. It should focus on enhancing on-hit ranged champions instead of being basically the all-in-one AoE stat stick it is now.

SH Azykan2 votes

I miss hurricane just being its passive + a fckton of AS.

Tèrminus1 votes

[{quoted}](name=CryF Zykan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oUj0Wtqx,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-16T03:19:16.877+0000)

I miss hurricane just being its passive + a fckton of AS.

/-/-/

Runaan's Hurricane

Recurve Bow (1000) + Stinger (1100) + 500 = 2600

+60% Attack Speed

Unique: +10% Cooldown Reduction Unique: +15 On-Hit Physical Damage Unique: Your basic attacks also fire bolts at up to two nearby targets, each dealing 40% AD Physical Damage and applying on-hit effects.

/-/-/

~82% gold-efficient without factoring in the bolts. Plus it gives Stinger a bit more to do.

This is also conveniently a Twitch nerf, since he won't quite reduce your entire team to swiss cheese when he ults.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

But it's also a nerf towards Ashe who actually needs all the stats on the item x)

Passive is way too good to skip out on if dealing with clustering teams too.

Marksman class is bothersome because they have so different powerleves and different ways to accomplish the same end goal.

Kog gives himself limited time range enhancements to stand and auto attack, Varus roots and slows enemies to auto attack, Ashe slows them- '

The less conditions for damage the less damage to they tend to do, like say Cait who right now despite a fairly high playrate actually has pretty bad damage, at least until 4 items.

Meanwhile the harsher conditions the more do they tend to do, like twitch who needs both Q and R.......although it's in my opinion way too easy with him once you do have those two.

Ashe is probably the only marksman in a middle ground at this time, her condition is severe enough to justify a good amount of power whenever a non hypercarry but AA heavy meta ensures but it also keeps her from going op.

But i must admit that as someone who mains the champ, Ashe is definately pure evil against melee champs like skarner and renekton x)

Tèrminus1 votes

{quoted}

But it's also a nerf towards Ashe who actually needs all the stats on the item x)

Passive is way too good to skip out on if dealing with clustering teams too.

Marksman class is bothersome because they have so different powerleves and different ways to accomplish the same end goal.

Kog gives himself limited time range enhancements to stand and auto attack, Varus roots and slows enemies to auto attack, Ashe slows them- '

The less conditions for damage the less damage to they tend to do, like say Cait who right now despite a fairly high playrate actually has pretty bad damage, at least until 4 items.

Meanwhile the harsher conditions the more do they tend to do, like twitch who needs both Q and R.......although it's in my opinion way too easy with him once you do have those two.

Ashe is probably the only marksman in a middle ground at this time, her condition is severe enough to justify a good amount of power whenever a non hypercarry but AA heavy meta ensures but it also keeps her from going op.

But i must admit that as someone who mains the champ, Ashe is definately pure evil against melee champs like skarner and renekton x)

This sounds fair to me. I still think the critical damage on the bolts could stand to be lowered like I said initially, though, which incidentally wouldn't affect Ashe at all due to how her passive works (critical slows don't care what your critical damage is).

Thefrostyviking2 votes

Ah true, altho i wonder how that would calculate with the other half of her passive, the one that get's her bonus flat damage based on her crit.

With 80% crit chance and a IE she get's a 1,5 multiplier for her basic AA damage, so with 200 AD she´d deal 300 on every auto attack but she does lose the x2,5 crit for 500 on every other auto, which always keeps her from being quite as powerful as the crit marksmen.

*Multiplier is only added on targets affected by her passive.

But that alone would make her too weak, so she gets to have her big arrow and the Q to help her out-

I kinda like her for it, she is always kind of in a underdog position but rarely truly bad, and her Q is really powerful with some items too.

But back to ruunan, while Ashe does indeed mostly get it for the AOE slow, i am still not entirely sure she really needs any nerfs. Lowering crit damage would to her be the same as lowering her AA damage for the most part, and she already deals the lowest average damage of any marksman as far as i know x)

Usually when i see people complain about the item it's in relation to kog and twitch these days, kog who rolls of the on hit effects and Twitch for interaction with his ultimate, so rather than a overall nerf it might be better to just tune those two down?

Tèrminus1 votes

{quoted}

Ah true, altho i wonder how that would calculate with the other half of her passive, the one that get's her bonus flat damage based on her crit.

Reducing the critical modifier on Runaan's bolts wouldn't affect Ashe's bonus damage on slowed targets since that's bonus damage and not critical damage. It scales off your actual critical strike chance stat, which is unchanged in what I was suggesting.

It's mainly a nerf to Twitch and Jinx, who can deal large amounts of AoE damage with their critical strikes off the bolts.

Usually when i see people complain about the item it's in relation to kog and twitch these days, kog who rolls of the on hit effects and Twitch for interaction with his ultimate, so rather than a overall nerf it might be better to just tune those two down?

Kog is fine, I think. His itemization doesn't have the same "too cheap" problem other ADCs currently have since Runaan's is the only Zeal item he consistently builds, and nerfing the critical damage on the bolts doesn't really do too much to him.

Tèrminus1 votes

Wrote in a few more things.

Maybe some of them are good ideas individually, maybe not, but all of them together might be a bit excessive.

Done251 votes

Rather than Healing power I think Redemption is what is in need of nerfing. Remove the "Gets 3x the bonus from +healing." so that it isn't so ridiculous.

Infernape2 votes

That was put in to lock Redemption in as an Enchanter item. Otherwise we'd go right back to early season 7 when everyone and their mother bought Redemption and healed their team for a ton of HP.

Done251 votes

It still heals for a ton of HP, and the hyper heal scaling only makes it even worse. I don't want to buffed in exchange for the +healing removal. I just want the +healing bonus flat out gone.

I do not think Redemption is healthy for the game as it currently is. Even just healing one single person is more enough to make it gold effective. A five man heal is just obscene if you think about the numbers.

Everyone bought it because it was, and still is, far too stong.

Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votes

Fleet Footwork healing % missing Health sounds like it would be a nightmare to balance. It could work, but I'm not sure the balanced end-result would be anymore valuable than the current Fleet Footwork with a few number adjustments.

I think Phantom Dancer should get the 5% Movement Speed and the Kircheis upgrades should have theirs removed, because they have pretty overloaded effects as-is and PD is all about mobility. If need be, they could make an Attack Speed component item that gives 5% Movement Speed for PD.

Otherwise, great post!

Tèrminus1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Xayâh Bôt,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oUj0Wtqx,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-01-16T15:29:03.374+0000)

Fleet Footwork healing % missing Health sounds like it would be a nightmare to balance. It could work, but I'm not sure the balanced end-result would be anymore valuable than the current Fleet Footwork with a few number adjustments.

I think Phantom Dancer should get the 5% Movement Speed and the Kircheis upgrades should have theirs removed, because they have pretty overloaded effects as-is and PD is all about mobility. If need be, they could make an Attack Speed component item that gives 5% Movement Speed for PD.

Otherwise, great post!

I'd argue that the Energize items are the ones that should be about mobility since they charge by moving. PD is a dueling/skirmishing item, hence why it only grants its bonuses while in combat and near enemies.

Another idea I mulled over was limiting champions to a single Energize item, but making their individual effects scale harder.

Also, a better solution to Fleet Footwork would probably be to just revert it to the numbers from Warlord's Bloodlust, where the heal scaled purely off %AD (but add a % Bonus AP ratio to it like FF has now). That way you need to build AD to properly scale the heal.

Tèrminus1 votes

Revised my thoughts on Shiv and Firecannon. Firecannon needs more single-target oomph, while Shiv needs less AoE sudden burst.

AirKingNeo1 votes

And this would actually make ADCs terrible and you still didn't fix LDR breaking the game by making bruisers die in 4 autos.

I think I'll make a thread on how to fix ADCs, because I'm an ADC main who thinks my class is broken, but everyone seems to have a huge bias blinding them away from being reasonable.

Also supports are still broken.

Tèrminus1 votes

{quoted}

And this would actually make ADCs terrible and you still didn't fix LDR breaking the game by making bruisers die in 4 autos.

I think I'll make a thread on how to fix ADCs, because I'm an ADC main who thinks my class is broken, but everyone seems to have a huge bias blinding them away from being reasonable.

Also supports are still broken.

Go ahead. That's what this board is for, after all.

Sure beats all the "balance sucks" threads that have no substance.

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