Hey. Mage "supports"

NvestmentPlanker·Dec 5, 2016·85 votes·6,655 views

THIS ITEM RIGHT HERE GIVES YOU AP COMBINED WITH SIGHTSTONE. I KNOW AMAZING RIGHT??!!

253 Comments

SukishooDec 5, 201635 votes

Lux "Does this come in multiple colors?"

GrReaper96Dec 5, 201651 votes

item 2049 item 2045 item 2303 item 2302 item 2301 a few

Craft ZeppelinDec 5, 201624 votes

{quoted}

a few

Velkoz total intended synergy

MhihnjDec 5, 201632 votes

item 2045 item 2049 Velkoz item 2303 item 2302 item 2301

One is not like the others. Wonder which one though.

Sariat1Dec 5, 201623 votes

item 2045 .

All the other eyes are looking to the right. This is the only one that is looking to the left.

RavenHuskyDec 5, 20168 votes

Lux "Am I the only one warding?"

item 2301 is my first full item on support Lux, but I can't be the only one warding. Trinkets exist for a reason.

The Ginger NingaDec 5, 20168 votes

I always go Fire Lux when I go support. Her salt when she goes to ward is amazing. And since no one wards in my elo, it works.

LuxannaVeritasDec 5, 20163 votes

When you run out of wards: Lux "Danger! No lifeguard on duty."

item 2055 saves lives, too. Too bad laners rarely know what they are. Amumu item 3070

ChaddyFantomeDec 5, 201622 votes

I cringe every time i see "supports' not even getting item 2049 . i mean christ. I played a game as ADC MF and i had a support veigar. The enemy team has Juggernaught Yasuo, wukong and Diana.

I wasnt leaving base lmao, not unless i wanted to insta-die.

So all i did all game was clear waves and defend when they came near towers because if i dare step 1 foot into fog of war i'd b dead with no vision. He then even proceeded to take all my farm and my team spent the whole time running around chasing people and dying.

it was horrible.

Im a support player, so hear this right now. if you don't get sightstone, expect to lose, especially now that vision is much easier to deny right now.

Hencho101Dec 5, 201613 votes

"I don't need a sightstone, it gives health and i don't need health" - Lux "Support"

Ariel the CruelDec 5, 20166 votes

Soraka Buying health hurts me. Literally. If I can still get it, you have no excuse. ;p

MohawkBirdDec 5, 20162 votes

That argument really depends on the situation that you are in as Soraka. Building somewhat tanky will allow you to survive and heal more (can't heal if dead because you have 0 defenses), while building AP powers up current heals if you're not getting dove a lot.

JDB8eoX8x0Dec 5, 201613 votes

Silly, have you even looked at that item's buildpath?

item 3098 + item 2049 = item 2301 ? Who in their right mind would buy a Sightstone for 800 gold when you can get yourself item 1052 + item 1082 for only 785?! Nice try commies, but I won't waste my hard earned gold on a rock with an eye on it when I could get a bling bling ring and a book to read.

redfeenixDec 5, 201612 votes

Does that come in red?

rtbf234962475Dec 5, 20163 votes

item 2045 Here ya go

Leo1024Dec 5, 20165 votes

As a mid/support main, i don't consider any mage a support with the exceptions of Morgana Karma and Zyra

Tactical PoroDec 5, 201614 votes

oSEXYPLATYPUSoDec 5, 201613 votes

brand is not a support. he cant heal or shield. peel. tank do anything but damage

Leo1024Dec 5, 20164 votes

why the hell are you getting downvoted brand is probably the last champion i wanna see someone support as

Tactical PoroDec 5, 201612 votes

{quoted}

why the hell are you getting downvoted brand is probably the last champion i wanna see someone support as

Maybe you don't realize the potential of Brand support?

Dextix LTDec 5, 20164 votes

He is not a support, he is a mage.

When a "support" can take off around 60% of your hp in one spell rotation, he is simply not a support.

Chromatic EagleDec 5, 201619 votes

Death is the best cc.

LuxannaVeritasDec 5, 20163 votes

I think you two are talking about different things.

Brand is classified as a mage, but he can still be played in the support role. Heck, Brand even has the 12th highest win rate out of the 28 supports.

For me, since Brand only has a skillshot stun in his kit, I like to play him with ADCs that also have crowd control like slows or stuns. Jhin Jinx Ashe are the first three that comes to mind. He also works well into squishy supports, and struggles against initiators. Long story short, like every champion, he thrives in certain match-ups and struggles in others.

As for the lack of crowd control, I find that item 3116 and item 3030 are good at protecting that weakness. Rylai's is a given, and since my damage spreads to other targets so do my slow. I would buy RoA if I was going mid, but GLP-800 gives me similar stats and a way to land my skills easier on close targets. Of course, item 2301 and cooldown boots are also essential for Brand support.

To wrap it up, let me summarize; Brand has a place in the bot lane just as much as he has a place mid lane. Just because a champion doesn't technically 'support' the ADC doesn't mean that it's bad. Let Brand's win rate of 50.75% tell you such. Brand works in certain games splendidly, and shouldn't be counted out of the support role.

Dextix LTDec 5, 20161 votes

He is still not a support, i will never accept a support that can nearly kill my adc in just one spell rotation. That is not a support, that is a mage.

Any other mid lane mage on bot does not have such a high damage output and a nearly instant kill on an adc in one rotation.

I do not refer to brand as "not support" because that he lacks cc. I refuse to refer to him as a support because he is a goddamn carry even in a "support" role due to his huge damage output even without items, which is a problem, it is one of the reasons why vel'koz support was once really popular and too good.

Brand is simply too strong as a support and he is simply a mage.

I am honestly tired or seeing mages on bot lane, because they fuck up the conventional supports and take their roles. I main bard, but when i face against a brand every second game, what is the point?

Brand is not a support, his damage output even without any items is too high, he is a bot mage, not a support in any circumstance.

LuxannaVeritasDec 5, 20163 votes

Did you even read my comment? Literally my second sentence said that Brand is a MAGE. Both MAGES and SUPPORTS can be played in the support ROLE. Brand is not a SUPPORT, but he is a MAGE, so therefore he can be played in the support role.

Even the new improved player guide (No, not the tutorial that says you should build Thornmail on Ashe. The NEW player guide that actually is better for new players on the website) states that a mage's common positions include mid lane AND support.

Plus, if you find that you can't beat Brand as Bard (which, if Brand plays around your stuns, would be normal since Brand counters Bard), then play someone like Leona or Alistar, who can jump on Brand and lock him down. Or play away from Brand; his skill shots (Q and W) can be easily avoided if you are aware.

And if his stun and slows (with items) aren't enough for cc, how about death?

Cuz death is the best CC. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Dextix LTDec 5, 20161 votes

Yes, mages can play in the support role! We get that all the time, but even they do not have the damage output of brand! I have never seen a morgana take off more than half of my adcs hp even with her ultimate. I have never seen a vel'koz do the same. Not even lux or goddamn annie approach that kind of damage without their ultimates up.

However brand can easily pull his combo off (Because using e-q is not a hard thing to do, so please don't try to show it as if it the slowest projectile ever, because it isnt). And he can poke heavily with his w, which hurts shitloads and is easy to hit because the enemy adc HAS to farm.

When a "support" can almost solo kill an adc in around 2 seconds, THERE IS A PROBLEM. And even lockdown supports dont do shit, because guess what, their initiation will be stopped with his e-q (Which will be even ieaser to hit because the enemy is coming to him), and he can just simply focus and kill the adc because he will outdamage any lockdown support.

If riot wants him to support, then they have to adjust him to the role, because having a "support" that can nearly solo kill your adc with 1 combo, is not fun gameplay.

I read your comment, but unlike nay other mages i am not accepting a "support" that does as much supporting as a top lane nasus ganking. I am not accepting a support that can solo an adc with no problems. I am not accepting a support that with no items still does incredible damage. That is not a fucking support.

Give me annie, lux, morgana, vel'koz, ANYONE over that cancer.

OneSmoothDudeDec 6, 20162 votes

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it isn't a fact...

You are free to refuse anything you want, but realize that you're being willfully ignorant, which is probably a bad thing.

VerdadeDec 5, 20162 votes

"cough" Blitzcrank Nautilus "cough"

Dextix LTDec 5, 20161 votes

Unlless both of them build full ap and go with their entire spell rotation, including their ultimates, they will never reach the damage output of brand with his 3 skill combo.

VerdadeDec 5, 20162 votes

Blitzcrank at level 6 deals: 226.2 + 3.0TotalAD + 0.3BonusAD as physical damage PLUS 600+2.3*AP magical damage

Caitlyn at level 6 has 840 HP

So at level 6 Blitzcrank deals 826.2 BASE damage while cait has 840 HP At least Brand has to get items to deal ridiculous damage LOL

Dextix LTDec 5, 20166 votes

Okay let us see. Blitzcrank builds no ap items and does not focus on ap runes.

We have 6 levels. 1 rank on the ultimate, 1 on w, then 2 on q and 2 on e.

Q deals - 190 ap damage. W deals - no damage E deals - 61.5 + 3.5 x 5= 77 x 2 = 154 ad damage. R deals - 250 ap damage. Greenfathers gift - 27 magical damage

In total that is 467 ap damage plus 154 ad damage. That is, if it was pure damage. So let us count resitances.

Let us take the runes of defence that caitlyn will have from this most popular and upvoted guide in mobafire - http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/boom-headshot-preseason-guide-gameplay-video-full-game-443013.

Caitlyn defences.

Level 6 hp - 524.4 + 80 x 5 = 924.4 hp

Level 6 magic resistance + magic resist glyphs - 30 + 1.34 x 9 = 42.06

Level 6 armor + seals of armor - 22.88 + 3.5 x 5 + 9 x 1 = 49.38

Now let us count

FIGHT!

For armor reduction calculation i used this chart - http://i.imgur.com/VbwUZkt.png

33% of 154 = 50.82 reduction, meaning that the ability will deal 154 - 50.58 = 103.42 ad damage.

Luckily the formulas used to count armor effectiveness are the same as counting the effectiveness of MR, so we can use the same chart for the ap.

30% of 467 = 140 reduction, meaning that the abilities will deal 467 - 140 = 327 ap damage.

Conclusion.

In the end Caitlyn will lose 103.42 + 327 = 430.42 hp out of 924.4.

Meaning that by the end she will have 493.98 hp.

AKA, blitzcrank deals nearly half of caitlyns hp in damage, but nowhere near to kill her.

AKA you are full of shit, again, especially considering how many mistakes your calculations in the response had.

I will do the same calculations with brand, just give me time, with these kind of calculations i have proven that garen does not counter riven too.

And i am pretty sure that if we are looking at rank 6 damage brand does more, so we will see tomorrow.

EDITED: Replaced the rank of blitzcranks q from rank 2 to rank 3, because that would be the most likely scenario. Also added in the greenfathers gift damage as blitcrank runs that mastery.

Because of that the rest of the calculations have also been edited to consider those factors.

VerdadeDec 5, 20161 votes

Oh god, you're really trying hard, aren't you? Pre-reduction:

Q: Rank 3, 195 x 1.05 x 1.02 magical damage W: Rank 1, - E: Rank 1, 188 x 1.05 x 1.02 physical damage R: Rank 1, 376 x 1.05 x 1.02 magical damage Thunderlords: 66.8 x 1.05 x 1.02 magical damage 1 AA: 94 x 1.05 Greenfather's gift: 27.6 x 1.05 x 1.02 magical damage Fresh blood: 16 x 1.05 x 1.02 physical damage

Cait at level 6 has: 45.7 armor, which is 31,365% physical DR 42 MR, which is 29.577% magical DR 920 health

Post-reduction: Magical: 501.85 Physical: 219.05

which leaves Caitlyn at 200 HP. If you ignite her she has only 30 hp left, which is extremely low. At this point she's killed by single auto or 3 minion attacks

Dextix LTDec 6, 20163 votes

First of all, thunderlords is not meta on blitzcrank, they go 0/9/21.

Secondly blitcranks dont run ignite either.

Thirdy, fresh blood is in the ferocity tree, AKA the tree that blitzcrank does not build.

Fourthly, the aa and his empowered e do not stack, e is considered as the basic attack.

Fifthly, your skill base damage is entirely wrong - Read up here http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/blitzcrank/

Furthermore, a support blitzcrank will not have any ap until a red drag, baron or very late in the game, thus there will be no scalings on his skills whatsoever, and there will only be the base damages.

Even further - Greenfathers does not scale with anything other than the victims health.

And to add on this - Blitzcranks 1st level of damage on his ultimate is 250 not 375, which is on the SECOND rank of that ability.

When you make calculations, could you at least get the facts straight, because what you are serving up, is pure bullshit, especially with the adding of 1.05 x 1.02 after every scaling.

First, make your research and then calculations, because your "calculations" rely on shitty information currently and are entirely wrong.

http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/blitzcrank/

Read this, thanks.

P.S, i will also edit my own calculations slightly because i fucked up and gave q only rank 2, when it should have been rank 3.

Serika ZeroDec 5, 20164 votes

he can kill the enemy (killed enemy does no damage)
he can slow the enemy once he finishes and his slow lasts for a good 4-5 seconds, which is more than even karma can provide
he can steal stun and protect the carry from 1 assassin/diver with cc alone

So, he can peal just fine with how well rylays synergies with his kit and how easy its for him to apply it. He is also a threat in team fights, forcing the enemy team to focus him over the adc, essentially becoming a meat shield. And he can still stop 1 diver/assassin in their tracks, forcing a larger investment from the enemy team.

Yes, he is not your casual support srub. But yes, his kit works ok as support. Personally I will stay Morgana is a supportive mage (mid laner) not a support. As her kit functions the best in 1v1 scenarios and when she can make use of her passive (she heals while dealing damage to champions or minions with spells, which is much easier to do with a W under minions, which you wont' do on bot lane because "adc farms")

BeldairDec 5, 20162 votes

Lux, Bard, Lulu

Leo1024Dec 5, 20167 votes

bard and lulu are primarily supports, secondary mages

level 6 lux and i don't consider her a support, not in the slightest, she's who i play support when i didn't get mid but still wanna destroy

TeCoolMageDec 5, 20162 votes

wait so Karma and Morgana are 'primarily' mages (lol who plays morgana mid anymore) but Lulu, who has sustained magic DPS and damage/1v1 cc alternatives to her shield and speed boost, isn't?

Also, Zilean.

Ariel the CruelDec 5, 20162 votes

lol who plays morgana mid anymore)

I play her top.

TeCoolMageDec 5, 20167 votes

ah top morgana, where melee tanks stand still for the rest of their ~~laning phase~~ lives

CosnirakDec 6, 20162 votes

Mid Morg main here. Lvl 7 Morgana, 400k+ mastery, ~60% win rate, so far have reached plat. I also play her top, and have even played her (successfully, including carrying and winning the game) as the bot lane carry. Mid Morg isn't the most common thing, but honestly sees more play than most people realize.

Serika ZeroDec 7, 20162 votes

most players (generally idiots who think zed and yasuo and leblank and the only champions for mid lane) don't understand that there is very little to no counterplay available when morgana uses her R in close to melee range in a 1v1 scenario... and it has a very high kill potential

Bishasaurus FlexDec 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

bard and lulu are primarily supports, secondary mages

level 6 lux and i don't consider her a support, not in the slightest, she's who i play support when i didn't get mid but still wanna destroy

Did you know Karma is primary Mage secondary sup? So she's a "Mage Support".

SnugglePuggle94Dec 5, 20164 votes

Well that's funny because all those you just listed were created to be actual mid lane mages. Then Riot pushed them into the support role -.-

Leo1024Dec 5, 20162 votes

i know and it's because they simply work better, they're still mages but offer a lot more than just annie stun or brand slow

SnugglePuggle94Dec 5, 20163 votes

Well I prefer that Riot leave them the way they were created to be, not pushed into another role and balanced for it instead of what they were intended to be in the first place.

Leo1024Dec 5, 20162 votes

Riot never changed them, Riot still balances them for mid lane and they don't enforce the meta so as long as it's not too op, if people wanna take em support, Riot will allow it

SnugglePuggle94Dec 5, 20161 votes

Morg hasn't been balanced for mid lane in ages, Karma has been balanced for support for the past how many changes she's gotten, and the only one that wasn't was Zyra, who was balanced for mid AND support during the MYMU.

Votable JesterDec 5, 20161 votes

Zyra was balanced for Support and a side of mid in the MYMU.

Anyways, they've tried to at least not affect mid Morg too much with their changes to support Morg (though there are still some changes), so at least they're trying a little to keep mid Morg ok.

SnugglePuggle94Dec 5, 20161 votes

Zyra wasn't balanced more for one role than the other, she was equally balanced for each during the MYMU.

Although if I do recall correctly, they did give Morg the "support" changes when they redid all the mana/mana regen parts to all the mages and supports. And I haven't seen her been given any mid lane changes in awhile, but at least like you said they are still keeping her mid lane viable unlike Lulu, where they completely obliterated it because they thought she was better support.

Votable JesterDec 6, 20162 votes

If you look at the MYMU page on Zyra, the Rioter in charge said that he was focussing on Zyra as support, and would try to keep her viable mid. He clearly put emphasis on her support over mid. She may work decently mid, but they were far more focused on her as support.