@Meddler Improving interactivity and health of Fiora's vitals.

TheSingularity··14 votes·974 views

Fiora's been in a fine spot since they nerfed her post rework. Her damage is reasonable and she brings a decent amount of utility to team fights.

However she still suffers from one problem that makes her, just a champ you don't want to have to deal with (not that you can't). And that is she, like skarner forces you to play her mini game whether you like it or not. But she's the only one that gets to actually do anything (hit vitals) while you are forced into tossing up between sucking it up and taking the dmg, or getting zoned for 15 seconds every time a favourable vital appears for fiora.

The vitals themselves lack any sense as well. Let's say fiora wanted to target a vital being my dick and I did a 180 degree turn. That vital should turn with me but instead in-game, my ass hole turns into a vital thus either way, she's gonna shove that pretty rapier right up there. This in turn places the entire lane outcome on the fiora, as there is nothing you can do to "counter" her vitals due to their %HP true dmg (I don't mind it, but just saying). Let's say a vital pops up facing fiora; I have 2 options and 2 options only: back off and lose CS or take the hit.

Now one pops up on my rear; I could take a risk and farm, but now fiora can dash through minions to strike it, instantly starting up another vital to target. Or she can miss but still succeed in dealing dmg (+parry)

None of those solutions involve a player out-playing fiora, but rely on the fiora out-playing themselves

I think it would be fair to allow fiora's vitals to rotate with the player they are on. If it starts on my champion models front, it will stay there and follow it when I turn around (so I can manipulate where the vital goes). This adds a degree of counterplay to fiora's passive and allows the non-fiora to get involved in fiora's minigame. This would also lack abuse cases, as it's impossible to make your character do a perfect 360 degree turn over and over again and even then, fiora would still be damaging you while you mindlessly spasm around with you scripts. Instead in most cases the player would simply turn around, providing room for mind games (the fiora preemptively dashing around them to hit a vital) or not turn around at all (wasting the preemptive dash)

Upon hitting 6 fiora still gains a way to get around this via her ult and her kit contains more than enough tools to allow players to adapt to this change.

Thoughts?

Edit: if all you're gonna do is downvote. At least have the balls to explain why you disagree.

16 Comments

Unreformed Shaco8 votes

"That vital should turn with me but instead in-game, my ass hole turns into a vital thus either way, she's gonna shove that pretty rapier right up there."

Best thread all year.

But I certainly agree that it doesn't really have counter-play that the player on the receiving end can deal with meaningfully. Always wondered why they didn't turn. It would be similar to how Cass ult works, but as you said, there would be much more mind games and outplay potential with her dashing behind you predicting your turn.

TheSingularity1 votes

http://www.kappit.com/img/pics/201504_1201_eeeag_sm.jpg

what if I added "rupturing it resulting in me drowning in an ocean of my own shit"

Kamara333 votes

autism moment: What if Fiora had vitals too, that enemies could proc?

TheSingularity1 votes

Fiora's entire model is a vital ;)

Oakleaf Ranger3 votes

I agree with the sentiment but your idea is bad. Basically all you have to do to beat fiora with your idea is play with really high sensitivity and turning your character around(vitals) as you please becomes extremely quick and easy. Fiora Q is fast but nothing compared to the speed sensitivity allowes you to reach in game. Basically she would become garbage against anyone capable of playing with high sensitivity.

TheSingularity1 votes

Fair point. What would you do if you had to achieve what I'm aimin for here?

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

Personally I think fiora has disgusting kit that allows her too much control between her and her opponent(s). She is fine currently and sleeper op with just one buff away from being s tier again. The common counter play to fiora or at least for me is to reset the vital whenever it's in an unfavorable position which is just walking away then coming back. Which is pretty effective but lame and boring counter play at the same time. I'm pretty sure I posted an idea a long time about this but I can't think of anything off the top of my head that I would a consider a satisfying response. If they changed something in a nutshell it would be to give those playing against Fiora more options/tools in lane to play against her when interacting. Small things would be increasing her mana cost on her Q. I believe it has mana refund and cost cool down currently, so it punishes Fiora's who fail at it but still rewards/changes little to nothing for those who use it correctly/land it. My main gripe with Fiora is how good she is against champions with good - highly visually telegraphed abilities. It makes using her W a cake walk that lets her invalidate another champion's power too easily simply because timing her W to their animations visua/sound signals isn't hard.

Edit:

I think they should rework her E into something more vital when trading/laning (just more important to her kit in general). Cause currently it just servers as more damage/auto attack reset. Changing it to be more important to her success in trading/laning would allow more space to increasing her counter play and windows of weakness.

Sagan Forever1 votes

You cannot hit her if your back is to her, if you want to fight back meaningfully you have to face your opponent.

Spice POWAH3 votes

I think a better solution that riot might be more willing to do (as it requires less work) is to make the vital "time out" much faster so you only need to back off for a second or two.

For example: let's just say her vital lasts 16 seconds because I don't remember the number before it turns red, times out and switches to another spot. without backing off and missing cs + xp, you take the risk of the easiest trade of her life for a long time.

But what if her vital lasted only 4 seconds? then you would not be zoned for as long at once and she would need to be more of an opportunist if she wants more of the vitals, so she can't be like "I'll just patiently last-hit before I trade".

by reducing the duration of the vital, she has to zone differently and the opponent is allowed to be close to the minions with minimal risk without having to run back to tower.

Fuh Queue1 votes

Just so everyone knows, you can break vision of Fiora when you get a vital closer to her, and when you come back into vision you will get it on the opposite side. There's your "counterplay"

TheSingularity2 votes

true, but she's still effectively zoning you and it's far from an interactive moment. She's zoning you by just being there, it takes no effort for that passive to tick and given it takes 0.5 seconds for it to identify a target and activate, it is significantly more rewarding for fiora than it is for the opponent.

Golden Tager X1 votes

Really the problem with her is that she is so fast if she decides it's fight time, it's fucking fight time, ghost, highlander, flash, do whatever the fuck you want you aren't escaping.

Gregor Gysi1 votes

Okay, two things:

Firstly, no need to get zoned for 15 seconds - just walk away. Usually you don't even have to miss a single minion because the range is actually super low. You will get a new vital asap.

Secondly, your idea is SUPER impractical. The thing is outside of lane Fiora would have no way to reliably proc a vital. You have to realize that champions turn a lot during skirmishes which means hitting vitals is a matter of luck rather than a matter of skill. Your main problem seems to be with vitals in the laningphase, so just use that simple trick to reset the vitals.

Another neat tip: Fiora can't hit vitals if she is overly close to the enemy. So if you manage to CC her and want to all in her then just walk onto her. She will try to get a lazy vital with just an autoattack and then Q the next one - but if she is too close she will fail her autoattack and miss the vital.

Xosra1 votes

You do know you can just back off for like one sec to make her vital change. I do this as fiora myself to sometime try and get a better vital when it spawns behind them.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

the game doesnt have turn speeds. if fioras vitals turned with the character shed be complete trash.

SaltyKracka1 votes

What actually prevents vitals from being an interesting, engaging passive is Q's autotargeting, autohitting bullshit.

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