The Quill Coat, and why it should replace Bami's Cinder and Cinderhulk

TheSingularity·8/21/2018, 11:27:11 PM·27 votes·30,365 views

Note: this is jungle tanks as a whole, so while sej is decent atm, that don't mean every tank is

While there’s consistently been a half decent tank to pick in the jungle... be it Zac, Gragas or sejuani… tanks have been struggling to be relevant in the jungle for a long time now and half decent just doesn't cut it when the gap between strong and OP is so vast.

In saying that, tanks did get some time in the spotlight in season 5, during everyone’s favorite “Cinderhulk Meta” where we saw Sejuani rule the rift and the weaker tanks actually became valuable as junglers for the first time since pre-pre-season 2015. Despite that entire meta revolving around my favourite class in my favourite position, I don’t want that situation. It wasn’t an enjoyable time period for assassin players or any champion who couldn’t act as a tank buster. Surprisingly it wasn’t that enjoyable for me either. Instead of seeing different tanks, it felt like I was seeing the Lee Sin of tanks (sej)… over and over and over again. This game doesn’t revolve around me, and having been through the times where picking a tank in the jungle was as stupid as picking Zed vs cinderhulk Sejunai, I don’t want anything like the cinderhulk meta to return. But I also don’t want my favorite champions to sit in the swamp until the right champions/items are nerfed and the jungle adjusted just right for my picks to not be a handicap to my team mates.

When I started in season 3, tanks weren’t too different to what they are now in the jungle, albeit their stats had more impact than they do now. Back then divers and assassins were the go to champions. Nocturne, lee sin, vi, Xin zhao, the infamous AP Yi, Kha zix and elise sat at the top of the jungle’s food chain. As a level 16 pleb, I vsed a shaco who 1v5’ed our team. He got so fed from the jungle that no one could stop him. And from then on I was hooked. I HAD! To jungle, it was merely a matter of picking a champion I liked. And this stupid pleb picked Nautilus. While it was hell for a while, my persistence payed off when patch 4.11 arrived.

In patch 4.11, Riot set out to help the utility tank junglers who’d been struggling to perform against their still dominant diver and assassin competition. And their solution was an item that worked wonders and made not only the 2 champions riot targeted viable (naut and mao), but also every other utility tank in the game. This item, was the Quill coat. To save you searching, the quill coat was a 700-gold item, built from hunters machete and a cloth armor. It only offered one stat, +20 armor and its active provided a ward to help spot invading enemies which were common. But it’s passive was the star of the show. Sapping Barbs: Attacking monsters lose 5% of their max health over 3 seconds (up to 150). Owner gains +40 HP regen/5 and +30 mana regen/5 while in combat with monsters.

This item solved the horrid jungle clear plaguing tanks and its build path meant that all tanks would clear monsters at a certain rate, which was only assisted using their kits (eg all champs with a quill coat cleared the 6 camps in Xmin-time saved through using kit). It offered absolutely NOTHING to other classes. There was no build half and then turn it into something else (titanic build path into ravenous on fiora). Because quill coat built only into one thing, Spirit of the ancient golem. While Spirit of the ancient golem granted 200 less health, that was the only downside when you compare it to the current cinderhulk. It granted 10% more bonus HP, 20 armour, 10% CDR, A GOLD INCOME PASSIVE! And a jungle clearing passive that could be STACKED WITH SUNFIRE CAPE! This patch was like the morning of Christmas, a present that did everything I ever wanted it to do in this game….. an item that allowed tanks to be on even footing with the rest of the competition.

But, come pre season 2015… Quill coat disappears from the game as riot implements their new smite system into league of legends. They gave NO reason for this, they gave tanks NO compensation and the result was easily the most pathetic jungle item ever to have existed in league of legends (this is pre cinderhulk). It granted health, that was it. Until cinderhulk and trackers knife tanks lost sapping barbs, a ward, 25% bonus HP, 10% CDR and their gold income bonus.

Riot removed it, the only logical reason being out of laziness because it didn’t suit the structure for jungle items they’d planned. Well, it’s been over 2 years, how about we give it another try?

.

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My proposal: Returning item and bami's cinder replacement: Quill coat. The item remains mostly unchanged but mana regen and hp regen has been removed (due to them being on standard smites). And the recipe has been changed. It is now a jungle enchant to replace cinderhulk. Quill coat costs 1000 gold Item recipe: Cloth armor (300)+ruby crystal (400)+300 gold. Active: Place one sight ward that lasts 90 seconds, take downs and returning to base re fill this ward. Grants: 20 armor, 150 HP and sapping barbs as mentioned above.

THIS ITEM REQUIRES SMITE!

Then, it’s stats when upgraded with a smite: Total cost, 2625 which is the same as current cinderhulk. Jungle smite (1000)+quill coat (1000)+ruby crystal (400)+ 225 gap Grants: 300 HP (could be reduced to 200, but tanks have already lost 850 through item nerfs so this health isn't going anywhere) +20% bonus HP+20 armor+10% CDR (2 ruby crystals make a kindlegem gold wise, but having it in quill coat recipe made the component too $$) +sapping barbs passive (it deals the same damage as quill coat, it DOES NOT get stronger with the upgrade). Then it gets the usual stats from whatever smite you have bought.

This is an overall buff to the tank item late-game. It can be argued that the CDR is unnecessary due to the abundance of CDR items (spirit+warmog+FH=40% but that isn’t always optimal) however I kept it there for consistency with the original items. If it was removed, I’d leave the cost alone, add another cloth armor to the recipe and increase the armor value to 40. I did increase the health boost ratio because I'm hoping it's a happy medium between 25% which was broken and 15% which seems underwhelming. It won't come into play until lategame and will help make up for the 850 health tanks have lost mentioned above

Some may be thinking "this will be busted in lane". But remember, sapping barbs only ever works on monsters. NEVER ON CHAMPIONS! It is impossible to use this item effectively in lane.

This is the solution that will bring the rest of the tank class up to speed without indirectly buffing ANYONE ELSE. This item will only be used as a jungle component and won’t be abusable in lane as monsters need to hit you for the passive to work. To boot, if a tank falls behind they can build sunfire cape again to bolster their jungle clear to help em catch up. I don't want to turn nautilus or any tank into cinderhulk sejuani. But I'm tired of jungle tanks being as useless as the towers that are supposedly meant to protect us.

It worked once, it can work again. And it could very well solve the tank jungler problem without buffing them into a broken mess

29 Comments

ModWuks8/21/2018, 11:30:19 PM4 votes

Approved!

Zaelphyc8/22/2018, 3:39:56 AM3 votes

Wasn't it just last season where tank jungles literally ruled the game? Or am I missing something. Maybe it was two seasons ago, but I wouldn't say they aren't relevant now, nor has it been forever since they were able to find a place. But at the state of the game now it is a damage meta. The game goes through different metas a lot, and last season (I'm pretty sure) was the tank meta.

I still see a lot of tank jungles in my elo (mid plat to low diamond), Hec going cinder and sej are the main ones though.

I do think this is thought out, but I don't like the idea of it having the ability to lay wards. They got rid of that for pro play (also it was like never used in ranked unless you were Lee or nunu), made the game stale until the 25 minute mark and boring to watch honestly.

Other than that it looks like a good idea!

Iręlía9/6/2018, 4:14:08 AM2 votes

I REMEMBER BUYING THIS ITEM! Ooooh I would love it if it was brought back. Was a good niche item.

I used niche incorrectly here, I meant not well remembered for.

Bewitching Senna8/22/2018, 9:55:19 AM2 votes

Sej is decent. https://imgur.com/a/9AdL9qY d-decent. [sg-soraka]

ZenithEevee8/23/2018, 4:52:07 AM2 votes

Wouldn't this create the problem of the tank item being less useful?

I understand a bit of what and why. It allows tanks to do better in the jungle

But after the jungle farming phase, Or you pick a more gank-friendly jungler (Like warwick), Having an item that's anti-jungle seems like it'd be a trade-out item.

Wouldn't it be better for it to have a lesser sapping barbs effect on Champions?

FixHealsRemoveGW8/22/2018, 9:04:49 PM1 votes

A lot champions actually have special interactions with the jungle, like certain % health damage spells being capped against monsters. So why not leave the items alone and just use special jungle interaction to balance the champions?

For example I think Soraka jungle would be pretty funny if her Q would deal additional damage to monsters and if Rejuvenation and her E would work on them too. Actually I think we could have a lot more jungle variety if Riot actually wanted. But that's a bit off topic. xD Anyway the point is you can balance champions for the jungle without changing their performance on lanes or vs champions.

I think bonus health is actually a very good universally useful stat for tank junglers and a lot of tanks even have health scaling, whereas quill coat was great for Rammus or against heavy physical damage but really bad if you actually needed MR. Why is cinderhulk so bad again? You kinda explained the history and then you skipped to your suggestion to remove it and to use quill coat instead but ... why? It's the solution to what exactly? What is "the tank jungler problem" and how do you prove that it requires item changes?

SUCC Ghast8/22/2018, 11:34:08 PM1 votes

In theory this would be fine, but does the jungle item lose the "immolate" passive? If so then this might not be as viable as you may think. Considering Cinderhulk is normally build on tanks such as Amumu and Sej, these champions are up close and personal, meaning they get the Bami's Cinder damage nonstop. Taking away that extra bit of damage from them when they gank can be slightly problematic. Also, an issue with this could be other duelist junglers building this item for the health regen it provides. Imagine Yi, who already has his W for healing, now also heals passively off of camps, same with Warwick. If there was some way to make this anti-duelist jungler, then its a great idea if it doesn't get rid of "Immolate".

LuaDotExe8/22/2018, 6:17:50 AM1 votes

In my opinion, it's less-so about the fact that they're jungling tanks and more-so about what they bring to the table and what the meta wants. From what I've seen, it's always just been the issue of specific tanks getting out of hand, meaning it's probably better to just buff individual tanks that are struggling. For example, Sejuani, Rammus, and Zac are the ones who've been getting out-of-hand, with picks like Nautilus and Amumu never seeing the light of day. Because of their recent buffs, however, I'm pretty sure they'll finally be seen as a decent pick in the jungle (and it definitely felt really good to play Naut that one time I tried it out in a full 5v5 custom game against some nerds. I've also been spamming Amumu in Nexus Blitz, but I don't really count that as viable for my argument because it's Nexus Blitz and not standard PVP).

Not to mention, the majority of tanks are just out of fashion at the moment due to the meta.

TL;DR: I think individual buffs to struggling tanks is better.

Aptest8/25/2018, 4:27:00 PM1 votes

Allow me to suggest a radical alternative.

The problem for tank junglers and also for tank top laners is inferior clear speed initially, and a clear speed gap which worsens as the game progresses.

Damage champions rush items which radically increase their clear speeds exponentially, whereas tank junlger items only increase clear speed mildly. This causes an expanding gap in clear speed, which progresses into increasing dueling and invading advantage (this is exuberated by the overall superior mobility of damage champions through both superior MS stat and lower CDs on traversal skills), and increasing gank opportunities.

We have a similar problem in top lane where late scaling champions can rush clear speed initially to get over a difficult laning phase through pushing power rush. This also allows scaling champions to contest with tanks early game and in doing so create an ecosystem where a tank top lane must be capable of winning VS a bruiser top laner 1v1 to be viable.

Both of these problems can be treated by the removal of the one item both of these groups rush, to accelerate their pushing/clearing power: Tiamat. This will radically equalize the clearing speeds of tanks and damage champions, by inhibiting the ability of damage champions to AOE camps.

BlinkZZ1829/4/2018, 4:02:53 PM1 votes

From the first glance I can tell this item is way stronger than cinderhulk. Please remove the addtional 20 armor from Quill coat and the upgraded jungle item. Even though tank is my favourite class and I would like this change to happen, but I do foresee the possibility of bringing tank top laners to jungle with the existence of this item.

Shen Sion Chogath and a few other tanks can already appear in more than one lane. If they become viable and successful in jungle, it creates some BP phase advantage if you pick these champions first hand, as you can decide where they get to go later until you see the enemy picks.

Alzon8/22/2018, 7:40:58 PM1 votes

This solution comes with the delicious side effect of removing the abomination that is Cinderhulk Jax from the game.

The obvious concern is the ward. For one, Quill Coat must not be purchasable alongside a support gold income item, or we’d see supports abusing Smite. Another is Lee Sin. I can see Lee sitting on Quill Coat and building Warrior enchant.

To fix this, Quill Coat itself could possibly only regenerate the ward when at base, with the upgrade also refreshing on takedowns. That way, Lee Sin would have to completely give up his dueling strength for a reliable early ward item. Another fix for this could be removal of the CDR, so he has to sacrifice even more. Some people would still rush it on him, but it’s a huge tradeoff.