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Neeko needs to make a trade off: Her damage or its reliability

TheSingularity·12/15/2018, 8:19:36 PM·84 votes·18,054 views

Currently I like her design I just think her numbers are too high for how easy her spells are to land, particularly given minions don't mean safety against her.

Q: Given it's extremely generous AOE radius, the spell needs a slight missile speed nerf at further ranges.

E: The effective hitbox is approximately 1.25 times larger than the projectile demonstrates, please increase the projectiles size or reduce it's hitbox

R: The R to me seems very overloaded and has way to many band aids to ensure she gets it off:

  1. can't be interrupted by CC
  2. So can only be stopped by killing her, but she gets a shield and potentially is invisible.
  3. Making it a high reward, low risk channel, which then has a slow to stop people from getting off and a stun.
  4. All that isn't even taking the damage into consideration, which they justify by it being a channel.

But it's an unstoppable channel that no immobile mage can escape. One or two of these components has to go.

  1. If she wants the unstoppable she loses the shield and slow
  2. If she wants the shield she loses the unstoppable and the slow
  3. If she wants the CC she loses the damage
  4. If she wants the damage she loses the CC Hold her to the same standard as Nunu or the old galio. No channel should be unstoppable, that defeats the entire point of it being a channel

For a comparison as to why I feel she needs these nerfs, let's compare her to Heimerdinger. For landing his E, heimer in addition earns a laser from 3 potential turrets, with a base damage value 180 damage. Neeko landing her E, which is substantially easier to hit is rewarded with 280 base damage from it and her triple proc'd Q. 100 more damage, for substantially less effort. Heimer does outscale her as the game goes on, but given the difference in execution difficulty her damage shouldn't be that high.

Overall she's well designed for the most part. She just needs some tweaking to bring her in line because she currently makes few trade offs for her substantial, reliable AOE burst kit

100 Comments

NoIWontBuySkins12/15/2018, 8:23:10 PM32 votes

Typical Riot adds a new champ that is way OP then they go "OOPS we don't know how to playtest but keep buying the Champ and the skins until we nerf her!"

She just like Yas, Zed etc etc they wont address balance but keep adding more damage.

Gilgayu12/15/2018, 9:37:03 PM21 votes

Neeko is pretty balanced.

Her e is dodgable if you have some sort of dashing ability, or you can dodge it if you have good reaction time.

Her q is mostly only garranteed 2 hits in team fights, and its numbers are okay, considering how squshy neeko is.

Her ult is powerful, yes, but beside that there really isn't any impactful thing in her kit. She is like a shaco with more dmg and more mind games

kittylover11112/15/2018, 11:47:37 PM11 votes

The worst part of her burst is that it’s hard as shit to see.

vgamedude12/16/2018, 8:10:37 AM5 votes

Damage or reliability

odd a whole group of champs doesnt have to make that decisionLucian

UlyssesISR12/15/2018, 9:48:15 PM5 votes

How did I know someone would complain in about a weeks worth of time...

Almighty12/16/2018, 3:37:03 AM4 votes

This is exactly what i said a week ago regarding Neeko and her ridiculously overloaded ultimate with overly hight numbers. But, alas, i got downvoted and dismissed as a "low rank".

http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

Handy Sandy 12/16/2018, 12:20:19 AM4 votes

Neeko's abilities and how she applies damage are perfectly fine. If she needs any changes, it's her numbers. She simply does too much damage. Her second and third hits of Q should do more and her first Q should do less.

I think her ult is fine, she's a mage and if she's getting that close to ult someone she's probably going to die afterwards. Without flash, it's hard to have any impact with it especially early in the game. If her ult was stoppable, then it would be useless. If there are any changes to her ult, she should have the damage ramp up while channeling/moving and then be able to activate it again to apply the cc/shield. This makes her do way less burst damage but that probably isnt needed if her Q and E dmg is reduced.

Beacon Academy12/16/2018, 3:12:06 AM4 votes

Q damage is too upfront and the extra bursts are just an afterthought. Do a reverse pyramid in damage so that its an actual reward when Neeko hits her third target for E and a punishment for enemies that get caught for the longest duration.

E fix the hitbox vs visuals

R unload that overloaded ult. She gets too much for pressing one fucking key. It should at most only be a combination of two of the following: Damage / Shield / CC

Might want to bump up her aa range as well to compensate for people who are bad at EQ if Q tweak happens

Flawless Fetus12/16/2018, 3:58:18 AM4 votes

Her ulti is absolutely overloaded. Lol. If her e visuals are that far off, they should be corrected. I don't think her e needs a nerf though, fixing the visuals would suffice imo. Her q is strong, but a lot of it's damage is from it's 2nd and 3rd pop. Her skills aren't that difficult to land, but I'm not sure if I'd call them overly reliable. They're both skillshots. Her q radius is pretty big, but you're likely not going to get hit by all 3 of the pops.

Bouncemaster Zac12/16/2018, 3:00:23 AM3 votes

Honestly the only part of her kit I think needs toned down is her ult. The aoe is huge and it does one-shot damage, with a long stun just in case you don't die. Her Q and E are easy enough to avoid in most situations, and her W is an honest-to-goodness outplay tool that has to be used smartly for any kind of meaningful effect. Her ult needs nerfed, in either radius or damage, but the rest of her kit seems fine.

Andevar12/16/2018, 7:43:54 AM3 votes

Her ult feels like a suicide bomb tbh. She can run it, hit R, and be almost unkillable because of her shield and stun/deal massive damage to a team.

Her E is also easy to land and it dissuades you from playing from behind your minions, which exposes you to poke by her Q and passive.

These two things are the only two things I really have issue with.

Raiyza12/16/2018, 11:56:57 AM3 votes

Good luck. Riot removed tradeoffs in this game. Everyone gets everything!

zAntiM812/16/2018, 12:25:01 PM3 votes

The only problem I have with her is the way her r works in combination with item 3157.

Running in stealthed, pressing R flash to slow and recieve a hugeass shield just to being able to press Zhonya to nuke two thirds of everyones hp bar standing in a pretty big radius while being untargetable leaves very little and I mean very little agency for her opponents.

2Charmnot2Charm12/16/2018, 5:11:09 PM2 votes

There has only been one time i felt that neeko was bullshit.

Urf mode 95% CDR bug Neeko.

That's the only time she has ever been annoying to me.

She's barely a threat at all unless for whatever reason your team has zero CC for some dumb reason (in that case anyone can just roll you over).

ChickenWrap12/16/2018, 4:17:59 AM2 votes

I won't argue about Neeko because there's no point to doing so because this is Gameplay (she gets her shield when she lands btw and it's usually not enough when she does so unless she is fed and she stops to jump in the air and do her whole thing which gives ample time to move) but I would like to note that Heimer alao follows up his E with missiles which then do a ton more damage and proc all three turrets again for some pretty crazy 100-0 combos.

zPity12/17/2018, 4:50:49 AM2 votes

the e hit box needs to be more accurate.

Wonfii12/16/2018, 1:14:43 AM2 votes

i think that she needs very small damage nerfs, probably on her ults scaling, in combination with what is on pbe (small q base damage nerfs)

she does a lot of damage, but her mobility is very low, relative to someone like (Blue)Kayn or LeBlanc who are very mobile oneshot machines