The meta is ALWAYS what deals with marksman the best. Not what is the strongest.

Paroe·Sep 13, 2017·2 votes·572 views

There has never been a meta that has NOT revolved around ADCs in some form or another. Even the old warmogs meta revolved around ADCs because it was a meta where regen tanks were very capable of flat tanking and killing them over time. EVERY meta has been like this in a macro sense because ADCs are a must have which enjoy a 100% pick rate (as a role) in every game. There have been metas where mages werent picked every game, metas where ( real) supports werent picked every game, metas where tanks werent picked every game, but no meta where marksman were not mandatory.

We, as a community, need to take a step back and look at the macro meta and find the reasons WHY marksman are so mandatory and WHY they have come full circle to "Marksman" micro meta.

9 Comments

FooDangSep 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

We, as a community, need to take a step back and look at the macro meta and find the reasons WHY marksman are so mandatory

Uhhh its common sense why Marksman are mandatory in the macro meta, you dont need the community to figure it out lol. Just use your brain.

Ranged Auto attacks are the most efficient and safest way to take objectives.

ExecutionerSep 14, 20172 votes

Wholeheartedly agree.

Kai GuySep 14, 20172 votes

Im with you guys on this, and personally i dont think its a bad thing. The Mirror lane bot is largely to keep tabs on objectives. Not really bad, with how item reliant each class in league of legends is due to scaling its really oppressive to play 2 v 1 lanes. We could make drastic jungle changes so its an optional role like other mobas, but i think thats just gonna hurt more as 2 v 1 lanes are still oppressive or then there is no dynamic interactions of a roaming jungle.

Riot makes game health around teams having a marksmen, they fill the role of main DPS carry. Its a core part of the game, and for this game i feel its necessary. Mobas follow a pretty standard role that the longer it takes champion X to hit their power spike the stronger that spike should be. So if that is not dialed in then game health suffers.

Everybody treats damage as the end all be all stat but the really funny thing right now is that ADC are not out damaging other roles by any extreme number, The top 10 damage to champ adcs in order are KogMaw Ezreal MissFortune Twitch Draven Xayah Sivir Jhin Vayne Jinx . Of which there is only 3 i see frequently complained about on boards being Twitch Xayah Draven . Glanceing at Champion.gg We are looking at adcs and mid overing around 20k with jungle and top being more in the 16k to 17k ranges and supports are a wild card pending on class. janna for example is top ranked support with only 3806 damage but most "mage" supports are in the 20k ranges. Not a single support in the top 10 currently is a mage, almost like Damage to champions alone is not the deciding factor on a teams ability to win.

ParoeSep 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Uhhh its common sense why Marksman are mandatory in the macro meta, you dont need the community to figure it out lol. Just use your brain.

Ranged Auto attacks are the most efficient and safest way to take objectives.

.... Indeed, and the point of the thread seems to have gone over your head. ADCs - marksman and ADC are interchangeable according to riot - are capable of everything except proper support (rip ashe... ill never forget my favorite support!). The real reason why theyre mandatory is because theyre simply THAT strong; they have no real counters, they have the highest damage in the game, and theyre the second most mobile class in the game simply due to their insane itemization which gives them LITERALLY every stat they want and even some they dont NEED. The simple fact that the micro meta has become full circle is extremely clear evidence of their strength being so high that only marksman counter marksman.

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oEsKWF0O,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-14T02:03:44.611+0000)

snip

Burst per second. Marksman do burst per second with a sub-standard build; They even out damage 1000AP burst mages like annie in a 5 second window. I could take screenshots to prove this point, as it IS a huge one and one of the larger reasons why marksman are so incredibly powerful right now. Between their extremely high raw strength, their counters being nerfed heavily, and their offensive defense items, they are without a doubt the most powerful in the game and stronger than they have been in years. Its a problem, and it needs to be fixed.

ExecutionerSep 14, 20171 votes

Micro meta sounds stupid as hell.

ParoeSep 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Micro meta sounds stupid as hell.

... But its true. Macro meta refers to the larger aspects like where champions go in the map. Micro meta refers to the specific champion types which are currently being played IN those roles.

Macro Vs Micro is also an off meta argument; When you chose to play outside the macro meta you can be punished by riot (see the nunu/singed fiasco from awhile ago) but playing outside the micro meta is acceptable.

ExecutionerSep 14, 20171 votes

Do you know why Tryndamere isn't great at taking turrets with a team? Oh, Melee. It's UNSAFE.

Mens Hair ClubSep 14, 20171 votes

ADCs are catered to too heavily

Kai GuySep 14, 20171 votes

At op. Its a solid part of how riot mantains game health. Marksmen being ranged allows for them to be squishery. This makes them rely on teammates and positioning more. Also its hard to have a hard carry that melee with out adding in high mobility or a defensive ability to their kit, combine this with high scaling required to make them viable late game carry they get oppressive in solo lanes if they scale to fast Yasuo Fiora Riven . With out a gimmick Mordekaiser Kalista (aware shes ranged just a good example on what i mean by gimmick) to keep them in a duo lane or jungle theres no reason to not run them in a solo lane if their ability to lane is strong. If they are to weak to solo lane and don have a gimmick to interact of teammates or a kit that is opportunistic, then they suffer the same issues in duo lane and lose that as well. Master Yii for example has huge late game but is primarily seen as a jungle because his lane phase is to weak.

2 v 1 lanes are oppressive in lol. Riot decided to make every class scale off item, gold matters to everybody, even supports. Marksmen tend to tie into crit to keep them from experiencing the same speed power spikes of every other class, crit needs crit, ad, and as to scale. If crit items are to strong or spike a adc to fast then yea game health hurts, but by the role of item enhanced auto attack dps to ranged squishy hero riot is able to balance league in ways that differentiate it from other mobas.

Its how the game is built, its why we dont have outdated warcraft 3 dota esque mechanics like clunky turn speeds janky vision, or ability only scaling off champion exp then falling off the face of the earth late game. Just look to how riot describes their class roles.