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I think the Fiora nerfs on PBE are going about nerfing her the wrong way

Akali is SO HOT··66 votes·3,564 views

Being a melee carry, she needs as much help as she can get to stick to her targets to be useful at all in fights, otherwise she'll just get kited and be useless. Nerfing her MS on her passive and completely removing it from her ult is sorta doing exactly that. Instead, they should focus on things she doesn't need or does too well.

For example, her attack speed slow should be removed from her W or at least nerfed really hard because it's just something that feels like it was randomly added last second for the memes and has no real place in her kit. Raising the time it takes for vitals to respawn on targets early game, but keeping it the same later on in the game is also a good idea. Or maybe just straight up reverting her last set of buffs to make her early game weaker could work as well.

Getting kited and not being able to do anything about it is one of the worst feelings when playing a melee champ so there are better ways to tone her down than the current nerfs on the PBE imo.

94 Comments

Scary Door6 votes

because it's just something that feels like it was randomly added last second for the memes

I swear people just make things up. I did a pretty extensive search on this statement and couldn't find anything to verify your claim. Saddest part about the Boards is that you likely read that from someone else who made it up and now you regurgitate it and others will read it and believe it to be true. But that's not even why I'm really commenting...

I don't understand why everyone is going on about her attack speed slow on her W. That's literally the least of Fiora's balancing issues. Her early game damage is just out of line when you consider her mid and late game powerhouse capabilities. Fiora is a duelist, I get it, but so is Jax and his early game is rather subpar all things considered. High scaling/hyper scaling champions need to have poor early games or at least a glaring weakness and Fiora currently doesn't have that. Part of this may be due to Death's Dance, but realistically speaking she just chunks down way too much of her opponents health early game. She almost always wins every trade in lane and that just shouldn't be the case.

So enough with this "attack speed slow" nonsense---she's mostly against other melee champions anyway in lane so why does it matter? She needs to have some of her early game damage and mobility reduced. Her late game is just fine by me, just tone down levels 1-9 a bit.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku6 votes

I don't understand why everyone is going on about her attack speed slow on her W. That's literally the least of Fiora's balancing issues.

Seems like u don't have enough experience laning against her as a top laner.

Part of this may be due to Death's Dance, but realistically speaking she just chunks down way too much of her opponents health early game.

no, DD have nothing to do in his "allmighty" thing. High elo were already perma banning her beffor tank update.

So enough with this "attack speed slow" nonsense---she's mostly against other melee champions anyway in lane so why does it matter?

so melee don't aa ? its u the one who should stop this nonsense. Even an AD caster as MonkeyKing is impacted hard by this as slow.

Akali is SO HOT9 votes

Auto attacks are a big factor early game and every auto attack counts in a fight so attack speed slows can win fights easily. A good example of this is how Malphite dumpsters Irelia and Jax in lane. If he lands his E (which is not hard to do) there is no possible way for either of those two to beat him in a trade unless he afks. Fiora already has a ton of tools at her disposal and having an attack speed slow on her W is pretty pointless.

Vumzuces6 votes

So this nerf has been discussed by many Fiora mains at https://www.reddit.com/r/FioraMains/ We think this is a pretty harsh nerf also, she needs her movespeed because she literally has to walk a circle around someone to get her victory zone (healing zone) getting kited is a real thing now (even by champs like riven) that forces Fiora's to change her buildpath.

People are considering Iceborn gauntlet and Frozen mallet. Some are even considering getting stormraiders instead.

My own personal opinion is that they should at least return her ult MS boost but i guess just reduce it. Many people have suggested removing/nerfing her W Attack speed slow.. but dont realise how badly she needs it in certain matchups which is essential to duelists such as Fiora. Besides.. her W hitbox is avoidable.

Things Riot could nerf are probably her mana costs to screw her early game just a little more so she isnt this "strong at all stages" champ. And no, her cooldowns are long already. her W has a 24 sec cd and her Q has a 15 second CD if she fails to hit anything. Her teamfighting is awful as it is and she can only be impactful as a split pusher.

Tbh this may be a unpopular opinion but I think people just dont know how to play against Fiora and complain when a duelist beats them 1v1 or 1v2 when fed or enemy heavily misplays

Williwunda25 votes

im sorry but if you really think its cause people dont know how to play vs her then you had better go to the lcs scene and tell them they are bad then cause she is always a threat in nearly 100% of lcs games shes in unless you get fucked early but even then just hold and scail and then u can kill anyone and have massive split pressure cause they need 2 to deal with you cause the true dmg is way to high

SenzaRespiro8913 votes

You don't even need to watch LCS. ON tuesday we had a small tournament in germany. High diamonds/master teams were playing. Fiora vs renek. Renek won lane pretty hard, after fiora finished tabis and Ravenous she could basically 1v2 and renek had to run. Fiora is supposed to be"lategame" one full item and a phage is now lategame.

Williwunda2 votes

yes i agree she is ment to be late game but no champ in her category should be able to 100-0 a full tank within 2 -3 seconds on there own and the best of it is its max health true dmg so she does it to everyone then she has slows and mobility healing in kit and a spamable q at lategame with it being low cd lategame her kit is way overtuned and if people cant understand that then there is no point talking with them

Vumzuces4 votes

it doesnt take 2-3 seconds.. that so exaggerated a full tank lategame naut/shen/malphite/galio with full hp and abilities ready doesnt actually get killed in 2-3 seconds thats unrealistic. Sure they get shredded just like how master Yi would do with his true damage, crits and insane AS.

Her healing can be annoying but simply get a item 3123 item 3165 and it will be screw her over pretty badly as she heals with every single auto. Extremely valuable items.

As for her mobility, it's getting nerfed pretty hard and her Q is only on a low cd if she hits something with it. If used as an escape it has a noticeably long cooldown.

Vumzuces4 votes

do you have a clip of it?

I'm curious how a 1 item Fiora managed to 1v2 a renekton that won lane (assuming 2 items? maybe 1 1/2) + X champ. They must've heavily misplayed. Fiora scales hard but she cannot 1v2 with only hydra.. genuinely curious. Let me know if you have a clip you can link.

SenzaRespiro8912 votes

You can talk and defend your freelo bullshit champ as much as you want. Fact is in 90% of matchups you don't play against her. No matter how good you are you just lose. And ifyou win like on renekton she dumps you anyways after level 9/11 which is "lategame" now. And you fiora "mains" know very well that if fiora wants to her W AS slow is UNDODGEABLE. Because you can QW into the face. You MS and AS slow them with this bullshit ability and instawin trades and don't even need your W to block anything. But then again as a gold 5 with >200 games on her i guess you still don't know her mechanics.

HalcyonDweller7 votes

{quoted}

But then again as a gold 5 with >200 games on her i guess you still don't know her mechanics.

Dude, I hate Fiora as much as the next guy, but this was uncalled for. Don't be a dick.

Vumzuces1 votes

I actually have 3 different accounts with Fiora being lvl 7 all being in different rankings, highest being in plat. I knew if i responded to that part it wouldnt end well so i tried to ignore it. Thank you though :)

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I'm just sorry he was an ass about it. :/ People suck sometimes.

The rest of his points are kind of relevant though, a lot of champions simply can't even try to play against Fiora. And a Fiora can use the attack speed slow to win harder in duels where the opponent tries to turn and fight back.

Vumzuces2 votes

I'm all for more counterplay against Fiora but shes essentially designed to beat anything in a 1v1 and then suck when it comes to 5v5. balancing both by reducing power in 1v1s and more power in 5v5's is something I wouldn't mind though.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Agreed!

Cowseed3 votes

And you fiora "mains" know very well that if fiora wants to her W AS slow is UNDODGEABLE. Because you can QW into the face.

In what world would a competent fiora player waste her parry to shave off a little attack speed?!

DunkinNoobs2 votes

{quoted}

Because you can QW into the face.

In what world would a competent fiora player waste her parry to shave off a little attack speed?!

This one. That's how many, many Fiora players use it. You're often not going to get to riposte a stun against good opponents, so just use it for the slows and to block burst.

Hinagiku331 votes

Also against Attack Speed carries it's pretty much Fiora's only way to win. They can just auto-attack Fiora to death in seconds and without the AS slow all Riposte would do is root Fiora for 0.75 seconds while the AS carry waits to keep auto-attacking her to death.

The entire point of the AS slow being there is because it's Fiora's only real defense so it needs to work on both ability-heavy champs and auto-attack champs.

Vumzuces1 votes

Yeah, it's absolutely crucial to have the AS debuff for Fiora to win certain duels.

AirKingNeo11 votes

This is not a harsh nerf. Thinking so is delusional as hell.

Vumzuces3 votes

It really is, it allows enemies to kite her more easily which is the last thing a melee champ wants. You actually underestimate this nerf. I did the same until I played it on the PBE, granted my ping was a little high. It's actually really significant.

AirKingNeo7 votes

Except Fiora has high attack range among melee champions as well as a low cooldown gap closer and a slow.

Vumzuces1 votes

Not sure if you play Fiora or not, but try playing her now and then again after the nerfs go live. I cannot emphasise enough how significant this nerf is. I was honestly on the same boat as you when I saw those patch notes, I thought they were lackluster but over time I realised that it affects her pretty badly.

Imagine having to walk a circle around someone to finish your grand challenge BUT this time we remove your 50% MS bonus and on top of that a passive ms nerf. How often will you be able to complete your grand challenge? See where i'm getting at? its pretty bad for Fiora. I actually rather have Riot nerf her dmg.

AirKingNeo6 votes

HOW IS THIS NERF HUGE? SHE STILL OUTDUELS EVERYONE WITH MASSIVE DAMAGE AND AN HUGE ATTACK SPEED SLOW!

You never finish her ult. You proc it like 2-3 times and kill them.

Vumzuces2 votes

I've made my point clear. If you disagree thats fine. Have a nice day :)

kasfas2 votes

Would it be fair if the move speed buff was increased based on the targets attack range? Or even if the buff was based on distance from target?

I don't play Fiora but I know as a melee champ, mostly tanks, you actually can't play against her. I'd prefer to alleviate some of that while giving her more power when fighting safe, ranged squishies.

Vumzuces1 votes

Idk how they would add that to the game though, no other champ has it like that. I doubt they'd make an exception for Fiora.

kasfas1 votes

They've made exceptions before, I'm sure hey can do it again. Plus it means she has more counter play for melee champs and has slightly better team fights.

General Esdeath 4 votes

"Fiora main"

"She needs to walk around to hit vitals"

Not like her Q is a dash that targets vitals or anything...

Vumzuces1 votes

Her W targets vitals as well, pretty convenient sometimes.

But yeah, you will find yourself walking a circle around your enemy as soon as you hit 6. Remember you want to hit all 4 vitals ASAP within the 8 seconds you're given. At level 6 you can only realistically use your Q once to hit one of the ult vitals and will generally find yourself walking around the oponnent for the remaining 3 or in the worst case you'd have your Q up at the last second of the Grand challenge.

Her ult MS buff being removed is huge in that you may not find yourself being able to hit all 4 vitals. Of course this gets a little easier later on when she more CD reduction from items, but that's I guess where Fiora is meant to be at her strongest.

PePsiLemoNN4 votes

Removing her as slow would make her get destroyed by Tryndamere Aatrox Camille Darius Jax Riven etc .

Justl ike how without her ms boost she'd get destroyed by kite

SenzaRespiro8919 votes

And why exactly should she win lane against these champs? Except jax and trynd (who is an abomination anyways) all of them are early game champs, snowballer. Don'T see why fiora as a lategame champ should destroy THEM.

PePsiLemoNN3 votes

She shouldn't destroy them ( and she doesn't , maybe Aatrox ).

Btw how are Aatrox Camille Riven early game champs?

DaNinad4 votes

rivens an early game champ

Ralanr4 votes

I can see why people can be confused on this. Early game is her strongest and possibly her weakest phase depending on the match up and skill level.

If it's a good Riven, she's a terrifying lane bully that doesn't so much snowball as she avalanches the game if she gets ahead. If it's a decent or bad Riven, she gets bullied hard and punished harder because of her shitty health regen (which is what helps balance her in lane).

Wildlife112 votes

Aatrox requires a lead to be useful, that's like the definition of being an early game champ

PePsiLemoNN1 votes

You literally have 0 Aatrox ranked games. Can you not pretend you know the champ?

AirKingNeo16 votes

He's correct and I play Aatrox. Maybe he just uses common sense.

Nøstalgia3 votes

Camille and Aatrox early game snowballers ?

Lol ?

JavelinJoe4 votes

ikr, Camille is rocking that 45-49% win rate at for the first 30ish minutes in.

Auz the Ripper2 votes

going even in lane is the same as losing the lane with Aatrox.

Aatrox looks like he's a late game teamfighting hypercarry, but he is not

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

Oh no... you might have to actually try when going for ultimate vitals... At least slow ass tanks will have some chance to not get nuked by her when she ults them.

Kaioko3 votes

They are definitely not the right nerfs to be using against her. Removing the attack speed slow on her W or massively decreasing it is one option.

The other possibility which is probably healthier is to -- lower her base AD by 5 remove the 2% base on her passive true damage and make it scale 5.5% per 100 bonus AD and decrease the healing on her procs from 30 - 115 to 15 - 100. She should be penalized heavily for building health over damage and she really doesn't need that much sustain in the lane phase.

Vallalan3 votes

I don't think Fiora needs to scale as hard as she does. thats the real issue.

her kit is fine. its not overloaded to be honest.

but i mean when she can hit 2 items and kill anyone even when super far behind thats just too much because thats NOT a late game champion. thats a MID game champion.

which means fiora is decent early > very strong mid game > beyond god like status late game

she just doesn't need THAT much bonus true damage to be effective. I think she needs true damage, but the scaling seems insane.

I played over 200 games of fiora on another account and I remember my win condition even when her early game was bad was "get to ravenous hydra, then its gg" because I would simply split over and over and they had to send more than 2. once i snowballed it would be 3 or more since i could duel even 2. she's just crazy.

Vumzuces1 votes

I mean.. if you're fed as pretty much any meta carry toplaner they will need 2-3 to stop you. I'm looking at Renekton, Rumble, Fiora, Jax even Camille.

INoble KnightI3 votes

Dude Fiora can stick to an ulting Ghosting singed with MS Quints and Swifties and can stick to a ghosting E using hecarim. She's to fucking fast.

deadlychuck2 votes

To be fair, most champions couldn't even escape a Fiora without a very long wall to jump over, which she couldn't. The amount of MS she got in total was insane. To the point that even a champion designed to run, stacking MS, like singed, often couldn't escape her when she ults.

Vekkna1 votes

They could start by giving her meaningful mana costs.

Vumzuces2 votes

She actually goes OOM pretty quick, shes a splitpusher and when you use your Q and E as AA resets you'll find yourself oom quick.

That being said, her Q costs 20 mana at rank 1 and although you max it first causing its mana costs to increase. It's pretty damn low either way. Her W mana costs are fine imo so is the E and R. Don't see what they could increase besides her Q.

Vekkna1 votes

My point is that when you compare Fiora's mana costs, cost scaling, base mana, and regen, with similar champs in her niche, Fiora is an outlier. Just a few examples:

Darius Illaoi higher costs, lower base mana and/or regen Camille Irelia similar base mana and regen but with far higher cost/scaling

MonkeyKing similar kit, similar regen, lower base mana, higher costs and scaling

I think hitting Fiora's mana is a pretty fair way to limit her early spikes from Tiamat or Phage. Pushing her more towards an early Sheen would be a good way to preserve her strong trading while nerfing her current playstyle of "I have a component, so now I win every all-in."

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